The Charlton era

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11/12/2005, 2:31 AM
Noelys Guitar

The Charlton era

The "lucky" manager got us to the Euros's and the WC. We beat England in a competion we had never qualified for before! We got to the QC of the WC a competion we had never qualified for before. As someone who suffered through the Giles era in that refs rob us and through the Hand era (some refs but Eoin hadn't a clue) I am sick we didn't qualify for this WC. Kerr didn't fancy Finnan and played fatso Carr! We should have won the group in a canter but many fans have become exactly what R Keane hates (me included). Politicians rather than managers like Kerr( I don't consider him a top flight manager)are just not good enough . The lazy minded are in the acendancy. Hand was treated the same way by some LOI fans. The problem was Hand picked McCarthy ahead of P. McGrath. I am sick we are not going to Germay and so should you be.
11/12/2005, 11:12 AM
klein4

topical....:confused:
11/12/2005, 12:57 PM
TheJamaicanP.M.

Noely, were you drinking when you posted this thread??
11/12/2005, 6:24 PM
Fergie's Son

Thing is, he's right.

Whatever about the football, Charlton instilled the will to win into Ireland. He was the greatest Irish manager ever. Hands down.
12/12/2005, 1:23 PM
mchurl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Thing is, he's right.

Whatever about the football, Charlton instilled the will to win into Ireland. He was the greatest Irish manager ever. Hands down.

agree totally
12/12/2005, 1:40 PM
Dublin12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Noely, were you drinking when you posted this thread??

I'd say he just watched the new Charlton DVD.
12/12/2005, 3:08 PM
Reality Bites

Picking that **** Carr ahead of Steve Finnan was one of the long line of faux pas's by Kerr, I will always blame Brian Kerr not the players for not qualifying for this WC2006, he was ridiculously out of his depth!
12/12/2005, 9:44 PM
Noelys Guitar

Drinking and watching the away qualifier to Scotland! I make more sense when I've had a skinful.
12/12/2005, 10:08 PM
geysir

Quote:

Drinking and watching the away qualifier to Scotland! I make more sense when I've had a skinful.

After lucky manager, sense took a detour. It might make sense if we all had a skinfull.
13/12/2005, 3:06 AM
Closed Account 2

Fact is we were a great team in 1990 and 1994. We were unlucky in both going out by a single goal against the Italians and being defeated more by the climate than the Dutch team in 1994. Each time we mixed it with the best - outplaying the English (who went on to the semis) in 1990 and the Dutch, and in 1994 we outclassed the Italians (eventual runners-up) and plucked away at the Mexicans. I still think if we had had night games against Mexico and then a few days later against the Dutch (instead of playing both games in sweltering heat and tropical humidity) or played those games in less extreme conditions we would have had a chance to progress, (McGrath's goal against the Dutch was legit, it shouldnt have been scrubbed off).
13/12/2005, 12:36 PM
elroy

Still wouldnt have mattered, that goal did come very late in the game and we were two down. Plus his foot was very high so it wasnt the harshest of decisions.

Anyone see the Charlton era dvd? Is it worth getting?
13/12/2005, 12:38 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by elroy

Still wouldnt have mattered, that goal did come very late in the game and we were two down. Plus his foot was very high so it wasnt the harshest of decisions.

The goal should have stood, I think - defender brought his head down to the ball as much as McGrath bringing his boot up. He flicked it away from yer man brilliantly too - no question of dangerous play or anything. But it probably wouldn't have mattered in the end alright.
13/12/2005, 1:03 PM
Dassa

So ifs it about installing the will to win in the team who could possibly do that now for the ROI team?
13/12/2005, 2:14 PM
colster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

So ifs it about installing the will to win in the team who could possibly do that now for the ROI team?

I think the manager needs to re-instill a belief and confidence into the players. I think they played with a lot of fear and too much caution. I think that came from the manager. One of Kerr's biggest mistakes was to always big up the opposition when asked about them. He always seemed to have a tactical alteration to deal with them. Charlton on the other hand wouldn't change the team at all. When asked if he was worried about a certain player he'd always say we're going to inflict our game on them They're going to be worried about us. He had real belief in his starting 11. Kerr always seemed to be a bit worried and I think that transmitted itself to the players. He always seemed too concerned about showing everyone his depth of knowledge about players and what a great tactician he was.

I think the best man to instil that belief and confidence is Martin O'Neill. Whether we can get him is another matter.
13/12/2005, 4:13 PM
Dassa

sorry but I just cant se MoN taking on the ROI job whether it be a part-time role or full-time. The only involvement he will have with football I believe in the next year or so is as a pundit.
13/12/2005, 5:01 PM
colster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

sorry but I just cant se MoN taking on the ROI job whether it be a part-time role or full-time. The only involvement he will have with football I believe in the next year or so is as a pundit.

Neither do I. Still believe he's the best man for the job though.
13/12/2005, 5:11 PM
Dassa

What about giving someone like Staunton a go. Altough I know giving past players who had a wonderful international carear can always backfire(McIlroy NI) but current options seem limited altough suppose it depends on finance package FAI make available.
13/12/2005, 7:25 PM
TheJamaicanP.M.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Fact is we were a great team in 1990 and 1994. We were unlucky in both going out by a single goal against the Italians and being defeated more by the climate than the Dutch team in 1994. Each time we mixed it with the best - outplaying the English (who went on to the semis) in 1990 and the Dutch, and in 1994 we outclassed the Italians (eventual runners-up) and plucked away at the Mexicans. I still think if we had had night games against Mexico and then a few days later against the Dutch (instead of playing both games in sweltering heat and tropical humidity) or played those games in less extreme conditions we would have had a chance to progress, (McGrath's goal against the Dutch was legit, it shouldnt have been scrubbed off).

Sorry, but I have to disagree slightly with this post. I believe the Irish squad was at its peak between 1988 and 1992. We had some great players. Nonetheless, I recently watched the video of the Ireland-England game from Italia '90. The English were definitely the better team and probably deserved to win. We were certainly a match for every team in the tournament though. It's just a pity we didn't have more belief against the Italians. Beating them in Rome was always going to be a difficult task though. As for the team in 1994, I think hindsight illustrates that the '94 team was past its best. We had a lack of attacking options and ran out of ideas after the first game. Our lack of striking options and reliance on Tommy Coyne meant that we had to revert to a 4-5-1 formation. Cascarino and Aldridge were struggling for fitness and Niall Quinn was a pundit for RTE. That Dutch team made us look ordinary and remember that they weren't used to the heat either! As for McGrath's goal, he raised his foot and it was rightly disallowed. However, if I remember correctly, the Dutch player (was it Frank Rijkard?) made a meal out of it. I believe that if we had a full-strength team in 2002, with Keane in midfield and Carr at right-back, we would have had a much more balanced team than in '94. However, for me, the best starting 11 we ever put on the field was against England at Wembley in the Euro '92 qualifiers. Seasoned internationals at the peak of their careers.
14/12/2005, 12:00 AM
Marked Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

However, for me, the best starting 11 we ever put on the field was against England at Wembley in the Euro '92 qualifiers. Seasoned internationals at the peak of their careers.

A joy to behold, that one. Except for our resolute inability to finish them off. Between that and the match vs. USSR in 1988 for my vote.
14/12/2005, 12:54 AM
Closed Account 2

Paul McGrath was, in my opinion, our best defender ever and also our best player over the past 25 years. He was more than world class, he was a world beater. McGrath was more than a defensive rock, he was the hub of the team, controlling the defence with steely determination and guile. In USA94, McGrath had the game of his life, smothering an impressive Italian front line including the likes of Signori, Donadoni and Baggio. In my opinion the best Ireland team ever took to the field on that day, 16th June 1994 at Giants Stadium New Jersey - and Paul McGrath (born in the same year as McCarthy and Sheedy amongst others) was the main reason for that.
14/12/2005, 10:38 PM
Fergie's Son

He made Phil Babb look good. That's all you need to know.
15/12/2005, 12:01 AM
Kingdom

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Paul McGrath was, in my opinion, our best defender ever and also our best player over the past 25 years. He was more than world class, he was a world beater. McGrath was more than a defensive rock, he was the hub of the team, controlling the defence with steely determination and guile. In USA94, McGrath had the game of his life, smothering an impressive Italian front line including the likes of Signori, Donadoni and Baggio.

For me he is the best player along with Keane we've had since I started watching (roughly the qualifiers for Italia 90). He is my favourtie player of all time. I think Keane stood out because he was head and shoulders above the majority of the players he played alongside. Whereas big Paul was part of an exceptional team, and he still stood out. If only he hadn't had the injuries and the booze issue. Players like him make the likes of Ferdinand look like an a$$.
Paul McGrath could have graced any of the big teams comfortably in any league, if he hadn't had any of the problems that he experienced.
15/12/2005, 1:19 AM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

However, for me, the best starting 11 we ever put on the field was against England at Wembley in the Euro '92 qualifiers. Seasoned internationals at the peak of their careers.

Totally agree. I have this game on video and I love watching it. There's a great 15 minute spell right before Quinn's goal where England can't get out of their own half. We just kept hustling and winning the ball back and the crowd get impatient. It's highlights all that was good about the Irish team at that time i.e. combine good work ethic with talented and experienced players and good things will happen.

Each time I watch the game I expect Houghton to put that chance away in the second half - sadly it never does.

Awesome performance - one of the best no doubt.
15/12/2005, 1:25 AM
hamish

I'm not name-dropping 'cos I know most of youse have met Big Jack at some stage or other but....

Was it after Mick McCarthy took over that Ireland had a friendly with Sweden? and, as it happened, I had arranged a psychological test for one of my remedial kids in Dublin on the same day as that match. Pure coincidence, you understand.:D

Anyhoo, after that was finished, I wandered down Baggot Street and decided to drop in to The Baggot Inn for a pre-match pint or two.
Lo and behold, there was Jack himself, holding court with a shower of aul' wans hanging out of him, getting autographs, pictures taken and Jack lovin' it all.
So, I sauntered over in his direction and quietly asked him for his autograph.
I may add that that was the day (or week??) of the first big Lotto Jackpot - think it was around 5 million quid or something.
Jack was very nice and said "no problem, lad" but asked me to hang on for a second as a bunch of blokes (including his son John) were with him.
He said to me, "I won't be a second but I'm trying to persuade these kind gentlemen to buy me a Lotto ticket for that big jackpot".
Then he tipped me on the shoulder and winked at me saying, "And you all know how much I need the money".:D

Needless to say, that remark was meant for "the choir" - everyone was in knots laughing.

Gas man, Jack.

Anyone else got Jack sceals???
15/12/2005, 6:54 PM
Fergie's Son

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

Totally agree. I have this game on video and I love watching it. There's a great 15 minute spell right before Quinn's goal where England can't get out of their own half. We just kept hustling and winning the ball back and the crowd get impatient. It's highlights all that was good about the Irish team at that time i.e. combine good work ethic with talented and experienced players and good things will happen.

Each time I watch the game I expect Houghton to put that chance away in the second half - sadly it never does.

Awesome performance - one of the best no doubt.

You have that on tape! I would pay good money for a copy of that! Seriously, PM me if interested.
17/12/2005, 3:40 PM
klein4

my mate was tellin me jack charlton was at his brothers wedding and he got up and sang give it a lash jack. and he said he spent the whole nite posing for photos and signing autographs.