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Nally got off way too lightly. He was within his rights to defend himself so i think when intruder was incapacitated & Nally was standing over him with a shotgun he was done with the defending.
Going back to his house to reload the gun & execute the guy on the ground was just a "little" over the top.
Mr McDowell has a lot to answer for. Last week, two 'Daddy's little boys' were sentenced to three months for kicking a defenceless man to near death simply because they 'weren't known to the law, unlikely to re-offend, and paid a vast sum of compensation'.
Padraig Nally was attacked by these travelling scumbags before, and was merely defending himself and his property against the same scumbag, and ends up locked up for 6 years. I personally don't care if he did go OTT a little in dishing it out, adrenalin and fear can make a man do this when attacked. This traveller was pure evil scum. Filth. Of no use to society, and unfortunately it looks like his spawn are making an innocemt martyr of him. The poor fella. If anything Nally was too lenient on this piece of sh1t, and should be presented with a bravery medal and an offer from the government to clean up all such situations should no, when they arise again.
Then fact you identified him as a traveller first & not say intruder or thief discounts the rest of your post as comes across racist. What difference does it make that he was a traveller?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
:rolleyes:
What about his son on primetime last night, with his, I am having mental problems since and I'm taking medication and so on. All I heard was compo, compo, compo!
I've merged these posts from here into a seperate thread as I think their could be a big discussion on this;).
Give it time;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
:o
As someone who has had my house broke into, I totally support Mr Nally in his action, its a shame he didn't do the same to the son. My uncle had a massive amount of damage done to his sheds the other week, after some b@stards tried to smash their way in.
These b@stards have no respect for anyone and if they are confronted are only to happy as has happened with the poor man in Waterford too take life themselves so why should people be worried about someone like this scumbag Mr Nally killed.
I would give Mr Nally a medal, this scum would think again if they thought that someone like Mr Nally may well waiting for them with a shotgun when they broke in. That is the only answer and justice that they deserve.
Six years in jail, what a disgrace, the man deserves a people of the year award.
Yeah, they'd make sure they had a gun too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvo
Don't have much sympathy for the scumbag shot*. However, Nally had stopped him when he shot him the first time and beat him, no need to shoot him in the back.
*the fact he's a traveller is irrelevant imo - both sides making too much of that, including the traveller support groups who are as guilty of stirring it up as the other side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Well they have all sorts of weapons with them when they break into a house anyway, so it would not surprise me if they had guns with them now.
I didn't say anything about travellers, the b@stards who killed that man down in Waterford when he found them breaking into his house were not travellers but local thugs from the same district.
As for he should only have fired the once at the ****, f**k that, that **** would have been back with a posse when his injurys were healed and done the same to mr Nally, he was right to finish him, shame the son got away.
If I had a gun and been lucky to catch the b@stards that broke into my house, I would have fired a few shots and not have worried about their civil rights.
Only the first sentence was a direct response to you Sylvo - must start doing 2 posts as it's the second time this week I've been taken up wrong.
I don't see how you can argue that Nally is safe now - I'd say the chances of no revenge being taken are slim to nil now. Little difference if he hadn't killed him - except he'd probably still be at home.
I think the sentance was fair enough. He shot the man, beat the living hell out of him with a stick, reloaded and shot him in the back when he was trying to get away.
Ward is scum of the earth but I don't think what he did deserved death.
The GAA were shown up for the bigots they are by marching in support of Nally. We have a legal system in this country for a reason.
Try living near them sometimes ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I realise there good and bad in all people but the poor old itinerants seem to have gotten more than their fair share. Mr. Nally, although undoubtedly slightly insane, was driven to do what he did and I honestly think most people would have done the exact same.
As for people saying we have a legal system for a reason, shur if poor old Mr. Ward had turned up in court, as he was due to on the day, none of this would have ever happened :rolleyes:
a scum bag got killed , thats great news he has a 30 year history of burglary imagine all the lives he has ruinned over those 30 years how many old people are living in fear of him returning , well not any more :D
but mr nally is better off inside he has even said it himself its the first time in years he feels safe , the travellers have put a bounty on his head , also expect a civil action from the ward family . it will show the system up when he will be forced to sell his farm and livelyhood to pay off these scum , that should never have been there in the first place .
think you ll find he said travelling scumbag which is a scumbag that travell's around ,nothing racist about that ... just before your get on your moral high horse wind up !;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
no right thinking person wishes that this guy was still alive and breaking into there house today , the world is a better place with out this burgular who was just starting to train up the first of his 11 kids in the fine art of robbing .
it must be nice to pass on the family businness
Maybe I am racist in your eyes then, but I stand by what I said. I did not speak any mistruths; he was a traveller, he was a filthy evil scumbag, and he did get what was coming to him. If he was Black, Asian, Eastern European, Irish, English, or from Outer Mongolia I'd still have the same opinions of him. The fact that I called him a traveller(which is what he was) first makes me racist? You're a very rational thinker, aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
ooooo are you calling pete a thinker now aswell :D :D
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The GAA were shown up for the bigots they are by marching in support of Nally. We have a legal system in this country for a reason.
they didnt march you ignoramous.
Prime Time was interesting the other night. Was pretty even in its report.
No doubt Nally ain't the full shilling but I reckon years of people "calling" by uninvited have driven him that way. He used to sit for hours in his freezing Shed with his shotgun on the look out.
Certainly went over the top in the way he killed Ward but whatever about Nally being mad, Ward was a total fruitcake and an evil one at that.
He had been in and out of the madhouse for months before his death, there were 4 bench warrants out for his arrest, he had a criminal record as long as Clive Delaney and there were all sorts of chemical concoctions found in his blood stream at the time he was killed.
It all boils down to the word of Nally who said he saw Ward coming out of his house even though there were no forensics to prove this. He then claims the gun went off accidentally and shot Ward in the thigh. Ward went for him but Nally then gave him a hell of a beating and as he was hobbling away down the road reloaded and shot him in the back.
Nally reckoned that if he had let him live then he'd have been back to kill him.
No winners here. Nallys life is finished now as well, very sad.
you know nally must be fairly strong though, cos travellers are always hardy like, though i spose a shot in the thigh might prevent ye from fighting back.
wonder what the son did.
in my opinion nally was driven mad by that family.
After the first gun shot the son drove off to "get help" but Nally thinks the son was going to get back-up, and then come back to the farm with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The guy who was killed was a scumbag, not a traveller scumbag, black scumbag or chinese scumbag. His race has nothing to with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
to me a traveller is some one who travels a thinker is some one who thinks and a knacker is some one that kills horse's , id take a long hard look at your self i ask why you have a different idea of what these words mean before you call others a racist .
I assume you mean Tinker? So what do they do, Tink?Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't Pete. The fact of the matter is that 'Frog' Ward was a traveller, like it or not, and also a huge scumbag. I am not being racist, or prejudicial when I say this. I also will admit to having a severe dislike for travellers in general, and do not like what they represent. This does not make me racist. Racism is defined as:Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
racism
noun
1. Belief in the inherent superiority of a particular race or races over others, usually with the implication of a right to be dominant.
2. Discriminatory treatment based on such a belief.
Derivative: racist
I do not believe myself to be superior to any other race of people, and have no right to be dominant over them, but that sure as hell does not mean that I have to like them. I have never discriminated against them as a result of my beliefs. Still does not mean I have to like them. The majority of them are vile, and have very little use to society, such as Frog Ward. I have no sympathy towards him or his family at all. My sympathy lies with Mr Nally and his.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
QED
You're a racist.
KOH
They sell scrap tin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover 2 U
they tinker about with stuff , they make things like coal buckets etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Rover 2 U
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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
I wouldn't have considered Travellers -as in Irish Travellers as distinct from Romani Gypsies - as a race. Just a thought.
If I'm truthful about it -and I acknowledge it's hard to discuss some of these issues without people taking strong positions and getting their backs up- I'm not convinced they even make the criteria to be described as an ethnic minority.
Totally agree with all of the above;).Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
lionel i was just thinking the same thing. he is discriminating, at the end of the day "we" as in those of us who have contributed to this thread are of the exact same background, race and ethnicity as "travellers, gypsies, tinkers", it just takes a few generations to go back and prove this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
:D :D Class! :eek:
Back on topic before this thread becomes a thesis on ethnology, when I heard about this case first I felt sorry for Nally, a bachelor farmer living alone, vulnerable person defending his property, his privacy, his home. His initial reaction to seeing intruders in his yard are completely understandable.
However when the full facts came out my sympathy switched to the dead man and his family. Ward was no saint, and he probably was there in Nally's yard to rob him. But taking into account everything, I think Justice Paul Carney got it about right. Ward should not have been there, and deserved the first part of what Nally did to him, IMHO. But you can't take a life when the option is there to spare him. Ward might well have died anyway from loss of blood, but there was no call to shoot him in the back when he is crawling away.
By the way, the Prime Time documentary strongly suggested that Nally is not the full bob. What were his defence team thinking of? If they entered a plea of insanity, the judge would not hesitate to accept it, going by the man's strange behaviour. Even if they went for the temporary variety of insanity, that would have given the guy some chance of getting justice.
What Mr Nally did was nothing more to protect his life and his property against an individual with a horrendous criminal record. If John Frog Ward was alive 200 years ago, he would have been convicted at court and he would have been taken back to the place of detention from where he would be taken to a place where he would be hung by the neck until he was dead and his body disposed of by law. In them times, hanging was the short drop where the convict would struggle hard before death. An Irish man brought in the long drop, which speeded up death. Mr Ward got the punishment he deserved and it put many of his victim's minds at rest. Mr Nally should be freed from jail and made an Honourary Mayo Person of the Year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy
insanity, as my law lecturer once told me, is extremely difficult to prove in irish law, you cannot sinply enter a plea of insanity and hope the judge accepts it, you have to prove it beyond doubt, and appearently this is next to impossible with the way irish law is structured (maybe someone with a bit more know-how on the issue can fill us in), as a consequence only a handful of people in the history of the state have sucessfully fought a case based on an insanity plea.
as for the case in hand, it raises a major moral question.. whilst my gut reaction is that ward got what was comeing to him, we have to ask; do we really want a society where people can inflict their own justice, whatever the crime, and take someones right to life into their own hands? i think not.
the key to the case i believe was the final shot. ward was a piece of sh it and undoubtadly had it coming but nally chose to fire the final shot and kill him.
i feel sorry for wards wife because being a female traveller, her life isnt worth sh it from birth anyway-all they are is baby machines for the vile scumbag men travellers like ward, however the woman is also completely deluded,as her words show-she didnt even believe that ward did anything wrong.
nally should have been given a suspended sentance, but i do believe that all his dogs were not barking.
again though its another example of how criminals are protected and while vile crimes like child abuse and rape go virtually unpunished in this country. this will happen again until we see proper justice for the victim in these cases.
nally did not get justice-he should be freed.
Maybe we should just scrap the judiciary altogether and dole out our own summary justice when we feel like it's apt.
I sense a lot of frustration on all sides about either Nally being put in prison or Nally not being put away for long enough but the man shot another man in the back. I've said already -I'd probably have done the same as him at the time and said, "feck it they can bill me later".
But what we can't do on one hand is say "well he was nervous because he'd been burgled before and your man was a gypo up to no good (who had in his possession cheques taken from an old man who was tortured into giving up his money)". A human being is dead. A nasty piece of work -yes. An iredeemable scumbag -most likely. But still a human being after all that.
Nor is it reasonable, on the other hand, to look for a "stacked" jury -which is what some in the "this is about travellers rights" camp wanted. Nally's as entitled as anyone else to a randomly selected jury of his peers -they reached their verdict -though it should be remembered they have nothing to do with sentencing.
On balance -I'd say the sentence is about right give or take -and Nally will probably be out in 18 months. When he does come out I hope his supposedly "tight knit communtity" gets their weave a bit more ship shape and takes a bit more interest in his welfare.
Even in the wild west you would be hanged for shooting a man in the back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Agreed. That's why it's right the man is in prison. I merely pointed out that if I was put on the X in the same circumstances ...well I probably wouldn't have let Ward get away to round up a posse. Now that means I might've tried the blow the legs out from under him and he might've died anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Who's to know? Maybe that's what Nally tried to do. Either way - a man is dead, a trial has been had, a judgment has been reached and a debt to society is being repaid.
It's quite tragic.
of course if the fu cker (ward) had been locked up beforehand in the first place none of this would have happened