Derry City expose tactical deficit in eL

Having observed with some interest Derry City's resurgence this season, I must admit to be somewhat intrigued by the fact that a sizeable percentage of their goals have been fashioned through variations on the same attacking move, something no opposing manager seems to have as yet apprehended.

Basically, it works like this; a midfielder (Killian Brennan is particularly adept) or the support striker assumes possession 30-40 yards from goal. Farren sprints between the two centre-halves, while one or more runners from midfield burst into the penalty area. The player in possesssion then releases Farren with a slide-rule ball into the gap between defenders, or, finding that lane of passing obstructed, feeds the midfield runner in the secondary breach caused by the two centre-halves converging on Farren.

It's a simple manoeuvre (which isn't to deprecate Derry's tactical repertoire at all - simplicity is the essence of every great stratagem), and one which has probably yielded half Mark Farren's goal haul this season. Now, while I'm aware that it's one thing to recognise an opponent's strength and quite another to execute counter-measures with any degree of efficacy, it doesn't say much for those vaunted UEFA coaching badges that this ploy has been worth almost a goal per game for Derry without anyone (to my knowledge) devising a means of defending against it (which could be as simple as positioning a defensive midfielder ten yards further back, instructing Farren's marker to stand off slightly, or fielding a more compact back four with the full-backs tucking in.)

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

it doesn't say much for those vaunted UEFA coaching badges that this ploy has been worth almost a goal per game for Derry without anyone (to my knowledge) devising a means of defending against it (which could be as simple as positioning a defensive midfielder ten yards further back, instructing Farren's marker to stand off slightly, or fielding a more compact back four with the full-backs tucking in.)

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So therefore what you are saying is we only have one tactic in our game???

I really hope Cork or whoever we are playing attempt the strategy(s) you have suggested, because a player like Paddy McCourt or Gary Beckett will have a field day.

We have more than one or 2 good players and are top of the league on merit, even though some begrudgers refuse to accpet this:ball: :ball:

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Originally Posted by Krstic

So therefore what you are saying is we only have one tactic in our game???

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No. In fact, I explicitly stated otherwise. It's just that this particularly productive supply-line seems to have gone unnoticed by eL managers.

Derry are top on merit, with a well-balanced, organised squad and players like O'Flynn and McCourt (best utilised as an impact sub when the game is stretched) to summon from the bench, hence the profusion of late goals.

Derry play good open football which involves as many players as possible which is typical of Kenny.They also have the players to execute their tactics to a tee and have a great striker in Mark Farren and watching Derry in fullstride is a joy to watch.Kenny has brought his never say die attitude to Derry and it works perfectly for them especially with a partisan home support who cheer them on to the final whistle.It works for Kenny because he isn't under the same pressure he was at Bohs and it was the same when Kenny managed us.They never sit on 1 - 0 leads which has brought them their success this season, It's attack at every opportunity and they deserve all the success they get this season.

The passing of Brennan/Martyn or the holding up of Beckett works well in tandem with Farren's pace and movement. As you say simplicity is a good thing but this tactic is still hard to stop!

Cork may go on and win the league but I think our flow and style of play is easier on the eye.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Now, while I'm aware that it's one thing to recognise an opponent's strength and quite another to execute counter-measures with any degree of efficacy, it doesn't say much for those vaunted UEFA coaching badges that this ploy has been worth almost a goal per game for Derry without anyone (to my knowledge) devising a means of defending against it (which could be as simple as positioning a defensive midfielder ten yards further back, instructing Farren's marker to stand off slightly, or fielding a more compact back four with the full-backs tucking in.)

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Ignoring for a moment that we do have quality throughout the squad, and other goal-scoring tactics - as exemplified by the broad range of players we have who have scored more than once this season - it is a difficult play to defend against when you're faced with pacey forwards.

If you put a defensive midfielder 10 yards further back, you concede a chunk nof the midfield - which is where our plays are starting. Also - McCourt, Beckette or any of a numbner of our players would use the extra space yielded to run/dribble/pass the ball round such an isolated player - ruling him ineffective.

If Farren's marker stands off slightly, the next thing he knows is he'll be helping to pick the ball out of the net. You can't give a player like Farren any space whatsoever - even if you suspect he's sometimes playing a tactical ruse.

The more compact back 4 idea would probably be the best of the above suggestions - but we do also play a wide game at times (McCourt loves nipping down the wings) so you'll either get pulled-out and lose your shape, or you'll concede play-making territory.

It is difficult to defend against a team who have players with the pace to consistently play like this. For the weaker teams in the league, a classic Jack Charlton 'put them under pressure' approach would appear to be the best way to me. Don't give any space at all from Midfield onwards, close down instantly, and try to disrupt their game whilst looking to capitalise on breaks and possession.

Poor Rovers on Friday night,didn't know how to conteract Derry's attack.They were attacked on both flanks and through the midfield.Roddy even admitted the movement was unbelievable.What we have is players who are not afraid to pick a pass,as they are confident a run will be made.They are also very confortable with the ball at their feet.

The problem i have seen with some teams in the league,is players do not have the confidence to try and pick a pass.I guess the fear factor off making a mistake causes this,and more often than not the ball goes backwards.

Most of Derry Cits goal seem to come from accurate balls over the top. Farren is very quick & in top form & confidence so will probably socre more than he misses.

Tactics to counter act would be:
- play very high line with effective offside trap so when see midfielder in possession push up. Dangerous tactic if linesman not awake.
- congest midflield with 5 players & close down midfielder so can't turn & pass quickly.

I think most goals in the league of Ireland come from defensive errors more than attacking brilliance. Every week on eL weekly we see yet more examples of the 'fall-on-your-arse' school of defending. While the teams at the bottom are obviously more prone to this than the teams at the top, even Cork and Derry commit defensive suicide on a surprisingly regular basis, even if they don't always get punished for it.

Yes, but it depends which way you look at it, Shels second goal agianst Longford last week was a gem for a Shels fan, but ridiculous space and time allowed for a Longford fan. Farrens opener in League Cup semi came from a Longford attack breaking down, missed tackle in the middle, good pass to and movement by Farren - between centre halves and a good finish. Bloody good goal, but not from a Longford point of view!

Cork City have only conceded 1 goal every 2 league games so hardly any regular flaws.

I think Galway harps point was more that even the top teams like Cork and Derry commit defensive blunders but the opposition dont neccessarily capitalise on it and score.
Derry have found it harder to score against teams that don't play football.. crowding the midfield, 10 players in your own half at all times. If a team comes out and plays football against Derry, then they create spaces and Derry score... which makes for a much more entertaining game all round

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The more compact back 4 idea would probably be the best of the above suggestions - but we do also play a wide game at times (McCourt loves nipping down the wings) so you'll either get pulled-out and lose your shape, or you'll concede play-making territory.

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No defensive system is infallible, but an attacking routine which one's opponents have perfected with the precision of a set-play demands special attention. Certainly, Derry might hurt you out wide if afforded the space to do so, just as any team might, but it's a lot easier to counteract through prudent observance of standard defensive procedure. For example, McCourt is an exponent of the Charles Charlie Charles school of dribbling (i.e., attempting to hoodwink an opponent with footwork from a stationary starting position), something easily rebuffed by a defender who stands up and doesn't commit early, hence McCourt's tendency to dribble across-field.

Killian Brennan is a fine player, but not a conspicuous threat down the touchline unless the full-back gets isolated infield (which shouldn't happen.) Killian's greatest asset is that deceptive semi-stepover he performs upon receipt of the ball. It looks like a gratuitous flourish, but in fact buys him the space to deliver the ball from a deep position or drift past the opponent on the inside.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

A void halfway between no-man's-land and limbo

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Sums up CHF/Dublin City:D

Derry City tactics completely scuppered last night as seen by substitution of Farren & Beckett. Rico used very clever tactics of possession play in midfield squeezing Derry back into their own half so balls over the top coming from midday inside their own half instead of from the half way line. makes it much easier to defend against as more time to react.

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Originally Posted by derrymac

I think Galway harps point was more that even the top teams like Cork and Derry commit defensive blunders but the opposition dont neccessarily capitalise on it and score.
Derry have found it harder to score against teams that don't play football.. crowding the midfield, 10 players in your own half at all times. If a team comes out and plays football against Derry, then they create spaces and Derry score... which makes for a much more entertaining game all round

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We say the exact same ... if team will play ball and try and attack us then we exploit the space left behind. Cráp 'six men across the middle' type teams are complete sh!te to play against and boring as fúck .... if there was anyway to dock them points it should be considered .... less of the boring safe football the better !!

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Originally Posted by A face

We say the exact same ... if team will play ball and try and attack us then we exploit the space left behind. Cráp 'six men across the middle' type teams are complete sh!te to play against and boring as fúck .... if there was anyway to dock them points it should be considered .... less of the boring safe football the better !!

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Ah yes, I forgot that we agreed all teams should have to have their tactics pre-approved by Cork before every game. As the league leaders, and best team this year, the onus is on Cork to break down stubborn defences, not give out because they don't give you space in behind them. Frankly, if Waterford in their present position could get a point each from Cork and Derry without ever touching the ball then I'd take it gleefully!

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Originally Posted by bigmac

I forgot that we agreed all teams should have to have their tactics pre-approved by Cork before every game.

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Bigmac .... you really are very forgetful !! :rolleyes:




:p

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Originally Posted by A face

Bigmac .... you really are very forgetful !! :rolleyes:

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Not to worry, I'm sure Pat Dolan will pass on all relevant documentation prior to the match in a fortnight's time.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

Not to worry, I'm sure Pat Dolan will pass on all relevant documentation prior to the match in a fortnight's time.

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He had fúcking better the poxy fúcker !! :o :( :mad:

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Having observed with some interest Derry City's resurgence this season

no opposing manager seems to have as yet apprehended.

particularly adept ...striker assumes possession .... finding that lane of passing obstructed, feeds the midfield runner in the secondary breach

which isn't to deprecate Derry's tactical repertoire at all - simplicity is the essence of every great stratagem

an attacking routine which one's opponents have perfected with the precision of a set-play demands special attention

easier to counteract through prudent observance of standard defensive procedure

footwork from a stationary starting position

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Rico, your cover is so blown! :)

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Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

Rico, your cover is so blown! :)

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:D :D

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Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

Rico, your cover is so blown! :)

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Brilliant :D :D

It's worrying that he sees Rico as something to emulate ???

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Originally Posted by EireBadBoy

It's worrying that he sees Rico as something to emulate ???

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Rico is imitating me (badly, although judging from his tactics on Friday night, he's getting the hang of it) :p

We could all use indiscriminately aureate circumlocutory periphrases for cheap thrills like Rico does, but nothing quoted above seems particularly outré to me. :confused: