Why I'm disappointed/negative

I was thinking about a lot of the stuff I've read in the Independent/Times/Examiner & websites forums over the past few weeks and I think the mood of everyone is that of disappointment. It certainly reflects my mood. I'm not trying to be negative before these qualifiers, but if I'm honest, I don't expect us to get through (which doesn't mean I'm not 100 per cent behind the lads). It's not that I ever expected us to cruise through this group. Here's why.

I've followed the progress of this group of players quite closely for a period of time that I suppose I can neatly bookend with the spring of 98. This was the period when Robbie Keane and Duff came on the scene. This was the dawning of the new age for Ireland A period when there finally looked to be a crop of decent young players coming through to replace the magnificent team of the Charlton era. Players like Given, Carr, Robbie Keane, Duff and later Dunne, O'Brien, O'Shea etc all came through to support the greatest Irish player of my generation Roy Keane.

After the shambles that was the Saipan fiasco, things looked grim. Until Roy came back.

Now like him or loathe him, there almost seemed to that fate might be dealing us a great hand.

That golden generation was to be peaking around 2006. Robbie Keane was to be 25 and in his prime. Duff 27 and playing for the Premier League Champs. Given one of the Premierships top stoppers. Dunne starting to realise his potential and O'Shea, O'Brien and others looked to play supporting roles. Even Matt Hollland and Kenny Cunningham looked like they would give us a glorious swansong. And all to be marshalled by one last final act of redemption and the best sorry a man could ever give for breaking so many hearts in Saipan..Roy Keane's last stand...ala Lothar Mattheus in his mid-late 30's.

Things even looked like they were heading that way. Everyone was exuberant about Kerr's appointment. The feel good factor was back. Young players were coming through again (Andy Reid, Elliott) and the results in our group were going our way.

A draw away to Switzerland, France and Israel whatever the circumstances were ideal results without taking into account the performances.

But therein lies the problem.

Since then, we've largely gotten what we deserve and out of the matches we've played and occassionally been hard done by. Whether you agree with Kerr's tactics, we got robbed against Israel at home and were perhaps unlucky not to get a point against France.

The performances dont point to us beating both Cyprus away and Switzerland at home. We dont have a killer instinct with our best team out

Less so without Roy Keane.

I dont think it's impossible. I just think it's unlikely that we'll get six points.

In the event that we do, I dont fancy us to beat one of the second placed teams over two legs.

I know this is negative, but I'm really just dissappointed. Disappointed that the team I've watched grow up together, the team I thought would peak at Germany 06 and might just cause an upset probably wont even make it.

I rarely thought we'd make the European Championships, the 02 World Cup was an unexpected bonus. But just based on the team we had, I was fairly sure that if we qualified for Germany 06, we would make an impression.

I've waited so long and now judgement day is here...it feels very anticlimactic.

Christ that sounds emotional when I read it back! Ha ha

End of rant

Anyone else?

:eek:

Fair enough but the way i look at this is that when the group was drawn we wouldve taken second place. With two games to go that is still a very realistic target. We go to Cyprus, get a win and confidence is restored, im hoping the swiss lose to france, therefore they will feel like we did after the france game, dejected and will come here a beaten team. We will beat them, revenge will be sweet and hope for the best in the qualifiers.

Keep the faith!

I agree with that to a certain extent Elroy. But that is really only a realistic option when you have the form. If we had lost away to France and then won or drawn at home with a good performance and say lost to Israel away, but improved and won at home, I'd be feeling optimistic because we are coming into form

We are much like a horse that's out of form. Our last few matches at home have produced one point. We look shaky and the only genuinely decent central midfielder and still our most important player is injured.

Regardless of who was managing us, we are not ideally placed.

It's time for the lads to put a performance together. It's an ideal chance for someone to step forward and take the game(s) by the scruf of the neck and carry us over that line and an ideal chance for someone to say "I can lead this team" in the absence of Roy. Messrs Duff and Keane are more than capable and are overdue a matchwinning performance so I wait with baited breath....

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

It's time for the lads to put a performance together. It's an ideal chance for someone to step forward and take the game(s) by the scruf of the neck and carry us over that line and an ideal chance for someone to say "I can lead this team" in the absence of Roy. Messrs Duff and Keane are more than capable and are overdue a matchwinning performance so I wait with baited breath....

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I want to believe

Please God let this be true

I know what you mean Kev, I've been praying since 10pm on the 7th of September:D

Elroy makes a good point about how we'd have taken the runner up spot at the drawing of this group -yet with hindsight (and I always say if Hindsight was a German footballer no-one would be able to afford his wages) it's been a fairly weak group that we could've won by June -and may still win -but will probably stagger over the finish line in second instead -if even that.


I don't have a major problem with how we qualify -so long as we do. To nick a phrase from our northern cousins -"We're Not Brazil" -provided he gets us over the line and into the finals we won't fire the manager for not qualifying with a certain swagger -as Brazil have done in the past.

In International football as it is in the Club game -no-one gets any trophies in October/November. I recall Norway qualifying for USA '94 slaughtering all before them. I think they took something like 26 out of 30 points up for grabs in a group that included England, Holland (the Dutch having pound for pound -possibly the best team in Europe at the time) and Poland.

Then they (Norway) got to the US, won one match, scored one goal and went home.

I think the French game in paris raised our hopes. I was confident we could hold them out back then just before the game but the way they went about things made me believe we could actually win the group (during and after the match). Winning the group was still a big possibility until Henry produced a piece of magic last month...... and now we've all got gloomy.

Errors have been made and we should be through already if we had beaten Israel home and away but we are still in with a shout, 2 games left and 6 points to play for. If we can't beat those two teams then no offence we don't deserve to be in Germany. The players have to stand up and be counted Wednesday night, this is last chance saloon and I hope we are good enough..........converting chances is our undoing though. I hope Kerr has got them on shooting practice this week :)

We consistently punch above our weigh in international football given small pool of quality players. Of the current squad who will be left even for 2008 European Championships let alone next World Cup?

Ages in 2008

Goalkeepers:
Shay Given (Newcastle United), 32
Paddy Kenny (Sheffield United), 30

Defenders:
Andy O’Brien (Portsmouth), 29
Richard Dunne (Manchester City), 29
Stephen Carr (Newcastle United), 32
Ian Harte (Levante), 31
Steve Finnan (Liverpool), (borderline) 32
John O’Shea (Manchester United). 27
Gary Doherty (Norwich City), 28

Midfielders:
Liam Miller (Manchester United), 27
Steven Reid (Blackburn Rovers), 27
Andy Reid (Spurs), 26
Kevin Kilbane (Everton) 31
Damien Duff (Chelsea). 29

Forwards:
Robbie Keane (Spurs), 28
Clinton Morrison (Crystal Palace), 29
David Connolly (Wigan Athletic),
Stephen Elliott (Sunderland), 24
Kevin Doyle (Reading). 25

Used to be 30+ irish kids going to the Uk every year & now than numbver down to possibly less than 10. The FAI needs to invest in its own National League as cannot rely on the UK to develop its players in the future...

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Originally Posted by pete

The FAI needs to invest in its own National League as cannot rely on the UK to develop its players in the future...

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I would love to see a League of Ireland XI vs. Irish Senior Team XI - would be interesting to see what the gap is...

Yeah we have punched above our weight at international level for quite a while, but at the same time our first 11 usually compares favourably with many other countries. What does hurt is lack of depth - so in fairness injuries and suspensions probably hit us harder than many others.

But the key thing in my mind is that with slim resources we need a canny manager, we need to have a better manager than the opposition, we need be more creative, play to our strengths and limit our weaknesses. We'll know if we have such a manager in the near future :)

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Originally Posted by pete

Used to be 30+ irish kids going to the Uk every year & now than numbver down to possibly less than 10. The FAI needs to invest in its own National League as cannot rely on the UK to develop its players in the future...

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Look at the amount of Ireland-based players in the youth team, further proof that more and more English sides are looking further afield for young players

There are several new players who will be blooded after this campaign, enough to keep us going.


Sometimes I do feel like the current team is underpeforming compared to irish teams of the past. We have been in decline, bar a great victory sprinkled now and again, since Euro 88. We had different attributes back then but we were brilliant.

Oh well lads, at least we all have the memories. We might have to wait until world cup football returns to Europe to have the same kind of team.

As a national team in a world context we resemble Bohs in an Eircom League context. A first choice XI that on it's day can match anyone, but very little strength in depth!

Punching above our weight is right. Of the 20 teams ahead of us in that Gospel of Truth, the FIFA World Rankings, no country has a population as small as ours - just.

Ranking - Country - Population

2 - Netherlands 16,292,353
4 - Czech Republic 10,182,471
9 - Portugal 10,566,212
10 - Sweden 9,001,774
14 - Denmark 5,432,335
19 - Costa Rice 4,016,173
20 - Greece 10,668,354
21 - Ireland 4,015,676

I think we also had the smallest populated country at the last world cup.

Used to be 30+ irish kids going to the Uk every year & now than numbver down to possibly less than 10. The FAI needs to invest in its own National League as cannot rely on the UK to develop its players in the future...

exactly.... that is part of the reason the eircom has improved in recent years. its because of this that the FAIlures in merrion square should not ignore our league any longer or they will have to kiss goodbye to there 1st class trips to wc's and ec's

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

As a national team in a world context we resemble Bohs in an Eircom League context. A first choice XI that on it's day can match anyone, but very little strength in depth!

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Yeah very similar to Bohs in that we deluded thinking we are better than really are ;)

I don't think the FAI should really even aim to get the el into state where its players are international class. As a first step the eL could be improved that capable of grooming young players before sold on to bigger foreign clubs & transfer fees would then filter back into the league...

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I think we also had the smallest populated country at the last world cup.

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Slovenia has a smaller population I think.

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Originally Posted by pete

Yeah very similar to Bohs in that we deluded thinking we are better than really are ;)

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and moaning about the manager too, spooky. :D

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Originally Posted by Schumi

and moaning about the manager too, spooky. :D

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Nickname is the Big Pub & where do irish players spend their preparation days & nights...? :D

Are you saying pete that if alcohol disappeared overnight, that we would be playing Scotland in every European Nations Cup Final?

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Slovenia has a smaller population I think.

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very true, but its their number one sport, I know I'm stating the obvious but football is behind the GAA in terms of popularity, interest etc, its an amazing achievment when we quaify for anything, it shouldn't be expected.

the fact that we have very few players going to england is incredibly worrying. i dont know if we will make future world cups:(

jolly rodger

I would agree with you up to a point. Maybe we are better off sending players to England, Scotland or further afield who have already made the grade at home first in the EL, and possibly in European club competitions with their Irish clubs, for moderate to large transfer fees as they stand a better chance of making the grade overseas.

After all the two best players for Ireland in the last 15 years or so
Paul McGrath and Roy Keane both cut their teeth in our (according to barstoolers) brutal league.

I think if we had young player who were playing in the UEFA Cup or Champions League group stages and were aquitting themselves quite well they would sell well in England. We need to take the league and underage development to the next level.