How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?

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14/09/2005, 4:27 PM
hoops1

How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?

How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?
You are only as good as your weakest team!
So that to me means the first division and not the premier!
The current relegation/promotion situation is to biased towards
the premier clubs!
There needs to be a serious change to the dynamic of the league
the First division has to stop being a graveyard for football
that no one wants to watch
The solution 4 UP 4 Down
Every year to many teams have no chance of being relegated or
getting close to europe.
The grey area between saftey and actually doing something needs to be
wiped out!
The league cannot afford to have Sligo,Limerick,Athlone,Galway,Dundalk
Harps or Waterford
hotbeds of football not playing in the top flight for any significant time
IMO this situation would create real competition
No longer is finishing 3rd last acceptable Driving teams at the bottom
on!
No longer can big clubs get away with a season or two of crap
Giving something to play for for nearly all teams for all season
crowds are bound to increase
While in the First a large majority would have something to play for
right till the end of the Season
And if one or two of the so called big clubs get caught out
bringing them into the first division will improve its profile
making it stronger while still giving other clubs prospects of reaching the
premier
This IMO Is the only way to bring proper competitive football to the whole
country not just Dublin/Leinster.
(apologies for spelling/grammar errors)
14/09/2005, 4:52 PM
superfrank

Agree with you mostly. I think the play-off should be scrapped. Nobody knows how many teams can play in it or how many places will keep you safe it changes very frequently.

I think 4 up and 4 down is a bit much. Maybe 3 up, 3 down. I thinkl they should have someway of promoting teams to the First other then election. Monaghan and Kilkeeny have been re-elected the past couple of years and they don't seem to do much better, except obviously Kilkenny this season.
14/09/2005, 5:15 PM
Maynard

Personally I believe the TV deal will in time greatly aid the public's knowledge (and therfore appreciation) of the game...However, I think that in order to truly shine the light on every corner of our (lets face it) tiny league, every club bar none, should be guarenteed to feature in at least one live match a season...
14/09/2005, 5:27 PM
blutil

i think we all know that the marketing needs to be looked at, but surely just from some of the coverage this season alone a quick 30 second clip with some good action could be put on the box, with a witty slogan, like "football, its here!" (not great i know) and some good music. the tune of an advert could make a huge difference, how many times have you been walking down the street whistling a tune only for your mate to say, hey isnt that the ad for always ultra, oops. I think the idea of the bottom half of the table having to fight for something is very important, maybe involvement in the setanta cup could also help, think more up down movement could definately be a long term solution.
14/09/2005, 5:37 PM
crc

Quote:

Originally Posted by blutil

the tune of an advert could make a huge difference, how many times have you been walking down the street whistling a tune only for your mate to say, hey isnt that the ad for always ultra, oops.

POTM :D :D

I agree with having more fluid promotion / relegation. As hoops1 says, the first division is a graveyard. Even if Dundalk / Athlone / Limerick / Galway / Sligo etc.. assemble a good squad, there's no guarantee that they'll get promoted because it only takes one other team to beat them to it.

3 up, 3 down seems reasonable, or maybe 2 (+2) up and 2 (+2) down (where the (+2) refers to playoffs.)

One problem with having a large number of teams automatically relegated is that if a team finds themselves stranded at the bottom mid-season (like Dublin City last season) there would be almost no way they could claw back three or four places and so they would probably just give up.
14/09/2005, 7:06 PM
Conor H

Agree with Hoops1 100%.There is 10 games left in the 1st Division but we like most clubs have nothing really to play for.The 1st Division gets no coverage and is regarded as a ****hole tbh.If your not in the premier you get absoloutely nothing,no coverage,recognition anything.IMO the old playoff competition should be brought back to make the league more interesting so that as superfrank said clubs like us,limerick,Dundalk aren't out of the race if we loose one or two games.If clubs knew that a top 4 placing could see them get promoted i think alot more ambition would be seen by some of the minor clubs,who seem to be happy just to float about this league.Also tv3 and co. need to start getting cameras at big 1st Divison games in future to promote the league,granted we can't show too many games or people may be put off. :o
14/09/2005, 7:37 PM
dahamsta

Dumb thread title edited.
14/09/2005, 9:14 PM
pete

4 Up 4 Down? Up havin' a laugh surely?

:eek:
14/09/2005, 9:22 PM
RedX

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoops1

How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?

Easy.....everyone call themselves Cork City FC.. ;)
14/09/2005, 9:24 PM
Duffman

3 up 3 down is ideal. Theres no way that the Premier Division clubs will allow that to happen though. Turkeys voting for christmas comes to mind :)
14/09/2005, 9:35 PM
crc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman

3 up 3 down is ideal. Theres no way that the Premier Division clubs will allow that to happen though. Turkeys voting for christmas comes to mind :)

That would be the gut reaction, but it works both ways. For instance, Harps, Waterford, Rovers, Pats all looked a bit wobbly this season and could yet go down. These clubs along with Bray, UCD and Longford would be unwise to vote against the 3 Up, 3 Down proposal lest they get stuck in the First Division in the future. Even Derry were hovering over the drop in recent seasons. Any of these clubs could suffer the same fate as Dundalk (League winners in 1992), Athlone, Galway, Sligo, who have been stuck in the First Division and have suffered as clubs because of it. The First Division is extremely stale because its composition changes so slowly.

If a club got relegated in a 3 up, 3 down scenario, it wouldn't be the end of the world because they would have a good chance of promotion again the next year. On the other hand, being relegated when there is only one automatic promotion spot is akin to a death sentence.
14/09/2005, 9:49 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by crc

Any of these clubs could suffer the same fate as Dundalk (League winners in 1992), Athlone, Galway, Sligo, who have been stuck in the First Division and have suffered as clubs because of it. The First Division is extremely stale because its composition changes so slowly.

1995 ;)

Anyway my preferred solution would be 1 up and 1 down automatically and then 2nd,3rd,4th in First and 2nd bottom in the Premier into a playoff competition.. :)
15/09/2005, 12:16 AM
crc

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

1995 ;)

oops! my browser wouldn't let me open another window to check it, so I had to go on memory :o
15/09/2005, 12:51 AM
Dr.Nightdub

4 up 4 down is total boll�x. It might be OK in the likes of Italy where there's 20 teams in Serie A, but in a 12-team Premier it'd be nonsense.

The First is only a graveyard for those teams that are too crap to get promoted out of it. Tough. For the yo-yo clubs - Bray, CHF and Waterford being the current crop - it's a temporary aberration. For the rest, harsh but true, they've found their natural level.
15/09/2005, 4:32 AM
mypost

Should have two up, and two down, with a play-off between 10th Premier, and 3rd, 4th, 5th First. That would ensure no mid-table bore games in the First Division. The Premier team will, in all likelyhood win the play-off, but it keeps the season going for those chasing promotion, downstairs.
15/09/2005, 8:52 AM
BrayZil

22 Team League

IMO there�s really only 1 solution for the league to improve and that�s a 22 team league. You'd have derby matches back with Cork & Cobh and Drogs & Dundalk which would create a lot of hype. The crowds would improve immensely for the smaller clubs rooted in the first division and they would benefit from better gates with the likes of Cork/Rovers bringing crowds to Monaghan/Athlone etc. It�s the only way forward.
15/09/2005, 9:02 AM
dublinred

Siad this before but reckon two regional premier divisions with a series of interleague games aka American Football and playoffs between the top teams in each division should re-kindle a bit of interest could also rotate the dubland clubs to keep it fresh every year.
15/09/2005, 9:03 AM
thejollyrodger

i totally disagree zayed. There would be so many clubs in mid table with nothing to play for.
15/09/2005, 9:04 AM
manic da hoop

Bottom three in the Premier automatically relegated, top two in the First automatically promoted, third promotion spot to be claimed by winner of four way playoff (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th placed teams). That would give most First Division clubs something serious to play for right up until the end of the season!
15/09/2005, 9:24 AM
ColinR

Quote:

Originally Posted by manic da hoop

Bottom three in the Premier automatically relegated, top two in the First automatically promoted, third promotion spot to be claimed by winner of four way playoff (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th placed teams). That would give most First Division clubs something serious to play for right up until the end of the season!

i think this is a bit too extreme. it gaurantees that 25% of the prem is relegated every year, and the potential that the team who came 5th last in the league overall gets promoted.

my preference is:

2 divisions of 11. 3 rounds + top six/bottom five final round in the premier, and 3 rounds + resurrect the shield for div 1.

2 up/2 down automatically, play-off between 3rd bottom & 3/4/5 in div 1
15/09/2005, 9:31 AM
Roo69

4 Up 4 Down would be madness IMO. We just don't have enough teams in both divisions to make such a big change each season.

We need more senior clubs in the country full stop and a 16 team premier division. Every county in Ireland should have at least 1 senior team in the eL, even if that meant we clubs joining together to form 1 club so that they could join up. Also i can't forsee that the FAI and IFA will ever join as one but if teams from the north fancy doing a Derry and joining the eL they should be aloud.

I like the idea of the play-offs because it gives a little bit of extra spice at the end of the season when most things are already sorted out so it keeps peoples interest up etc...

If things are to stay the way they are then 2 up and 2 down would probably the best way to go, with 3rd bottom in the premier and the team that finishes 3rd in the 1st playing over 2 legs to see who plays in the top tier.
15/09/2005, 10:23 AM
pete

If teams are good enough they will get promoted - its not as if the competition in the 1st division is so hot.

Progressive clubs will stay in the Premier & establish themselves - Longford Town & Drogs. If teams are not good enough they will get relegated.

I don't see what the problem is - uts not as if 1st division clubs are prevented from gaining promotion becayuse of facilities as seen in other countries & other sports.

:confused:
15/09/2005, 10:35 AM
TheOwl

To the answer of the question "How do we improve the league, Crowds, and European performances?

Well the FAI and the IFA just have to get their heads together and sort out an All-Ireland league - instant hype, sponsorship, and excitement guaranteed!
15/09/2005, 10:53 AM
ColinR

to be honest i believe an all ireland league will see a short term rise and then return to normal - if other areas around the game aren't improved also.

the AIL crowds had dropped significantly (even before the heineken cup stole all the glamour). the crowds for the setanta weren't that much of a leap anyway, and the interest outside of existing eL/IL supporters didn't seem to exist through to the end of the competition

a lot needs to improve (with or without an all ireland league)

within our control:

the ridiculos in fighting between clubs has to stop
marketing of our league has to improve
facilities have to improve (even little things like putting the tv gantry's opposite the majority of support would be a step up)
financial stability and prudence throughout the league - if clubs cant afford to give a player a contract, then dont give it (if our three sugar daddies leave, then we have to abandon any notion of being a full time club for now anyway)
15/09/2005, 11:55 AM
Bluebeard

I think that the best option for rennovating the First Division is three up, three down, possibly along manic_da_hoops lines with a playoff for the third spot, maybe between just 3rd and 4th placed teams. I do think though that another two teams should be added, probably a Mullingar United side and maybe one from Kerry, Wexford/Arklow or Tipperary if they can get their act together. Something also needs to be done about the re-election joke, where one just has to ask nicely and you're let back in. Has any team actually failed to get re-election since the first division started? As far as I can tell it's always been clubs resigning, going bankrupt or being amalgamated with St. Pats in a friendly manner that will bring prestige to both clubs( ;) ) that has led to new teams entering.
15/09/2005, 12:21 PM
pete

The problem with re-election is we don't have clubs queuing up to join the league...
15/09/2005, 1:13 PM
Schumi

Three teams got promoted from the first last year and it was probably the least competitive season ever.
15/09/2005, 1:52 PM
Mr A

It's refreshing to see that so many people have actually realised that the first division is important. I do feel that more mobility between the leagues would help as first division clubs would be more likely to see a return for investing in their teams. Currently, investing heavily in your team in the first could be suicide as if you don't get up (other clubs will always be trying the same) you get little or no return, and possibly severe problems. Despite Harps current position I think 3 up 3 down or 2 up 2 down with a playoff involving a premier team and 3 first division clubs would be better. It's also be worth trying to get a few more teams into the league.

Schumi- what are you on about? The race for the title was neck and neck all the way, and Bray and Kildare fought it out for third, that was pretty competitive as I see it!
15/09/2005, 2:37 PM
ThatGuy

How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?

All

Ireland

League
15/09/2005, 3:18 PM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galway Harps

Schumi- what are you on about? The race for the title was neck and neck all the way, and Bray and Kildare fought it out for third, that was pretty competitive as I see it!

Nah i'd agree with Schumi, it was a 3 way battle until the final 2/3 weeks when we decided to hit self destruct, slipped back and let Kildare try catch up, which was never really going to happen + they need to over come a final goal difference of 13/14 goals.

Bray, UCD and Harps were out in front all season long
15/09/2005, 3:51 PM
Wiseguy

The Powers that be need to sit down and have a re-think about the whole league in full.The govt. should start by means testing each club and allocating as much as is needed to bring all grounds up to an acceptable standard.
2 up and 2 down with 3rd top v 3rd bottom playoff might be a start.
It should be the same price into every ground in the prem and the same for the 1st.
All games should be on the same night at the same time in each division.Friday nights for the 1st division and saturday nights for the prem or vice versa.
More funding and intrest needs to be shown in the game at underage level with the setting up of schools of excellence where the rep. side could go on to compete in the Milk cup and other major tournaments.
A monthly EL magazine.
Proper radio and tv advertising.
Proper highlights program at a suitable time showing highlights of all matches.
A midweek preview show of all up coming matches.
Clubs need to get more attractive friendlies.
Free kids U12 to all grounds when supervised by an adult.
Segregation in all grounds for away fans,families,sponsors and so on.
To be honest there are so many areas that need improving i could go on all night.
15/09/2005, 4:18 PM
The Stars

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

4 up 4 down is total boll�x. It might be OK in the likes of Italy where there's 20 teams in Serie A, but in a 12-team Premier it'd be nonsense.

The First is only a graveyard for those teams that are too crap to get promoted out of it. Tough. For the yo-yo clubs - Bray, CHF and Waterford being the current crop - it's a temporary aberration. For the rest, harsh but true, they've found their natural level.

well we beat ye this season so is our natural level the Premier division or is St.Pats natural level the First division?
15/09/2005, 4:22 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?

All

Ireland

League

I like the idea but it's very unlikely.
16/09/2005, 4:26 PM
anto eile

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoops1

How do we improve the league,Crowds and European performances?
You are only as good as your weakest team!
So that to me means the first division and not the premier!
The current relegation/promotion situation is to biased towards
the premier clubs!
There needs to be a serious change to the dynamic of the league
the First division has to stop being a graveyard for football
that no one wants to watch
The solution 4 UP 4 Down
Every year to many teams have no chance of being relegated or
getting close to europe.
The grey area between saftey and actually doing something needs to be
wiped out!
The league cannot afford to have Sligo,Limerick,Athlone,Galway,Dundalk
Harps or Waterford
hotbeds of football not playing in the top flight for any significant time
IMO this situation would create real competition
No longer is finishing 3rd last acceptable Driving teams at the bottom
on!
No longer can big clubs get away with a season or two of crap
Giving something to play for for nearly all teams for all season
crowds are bound to increase
While in the First a large majority would have something to play for
right till the end of the Season
And if one or two of the so called big clubs get caught out
bringing them into the first division will improve its profile
making it stronger while still giving other clubs prospects of reaching the
premier
This IMO Is the only way to bring proper competitive football to the whole
country not just Dublin/Leinster.
(apologies for spelling/grammar errors)

4 up 4 down is ridiculous.
the best compromise would be 2 up 2 down and one play off spot..like a couple of years ago

no junior club actually wants to play in EL div 1, and most would have no ground for it either
16/09/2005, 4:42 PM
hoops1

4 up 4 down

I know alot of people agree that there needs to be
a change in the relegation/promotion situation
and many have varied opinions on how many teams up and down!
But to me the shear brutality of bring quality to the premier or
your down is the beauty of it.
It also makes the Premier more reachable to the first division!
Meaning that its a feeder league in the first where you go to improve
before hopefully returning and in the premier it brings all teams
bar maybe the very bottom two into competition all year!
In which case they have gained a years experience,money
and exposure!Also it would reinvigerate alot of country clubs.
Case in point Cork played Bray last week winning handly 3-0.
I seen the highlights it should have been six!
Now with 4 up 4 down Cork would have played a Bray team fighting
for there lives.It would have been a different game altogether
and would have givien them a better preparation for there UEFA game.
17/09/2005, 2:19 PM
A face

Just to summarise so .... A to do list !!

The current relegation/promotion system needs to reviewed.

A proper TV deal for the whole league needs to be secured. A proper highlights programme, a midweek preview show of all up coming matches, and a live game every week.

A proper united marketing policy for the whole league.

The FAI and the IFA have to sort out an All-Ireland league.

The ridiculos in fighting between clubs to stop.

All facilities have to improve like positioning TV gantry's within grounds. The government must start means testing each club and allocating as much as is needed to bring all grounds up to an acceptable standard.

Financial stability and prudence throughout the league (if clubs cant afford to give a player a contract, then dont give it)

Uniform pricing structure throughout the Premier club games, likewise with the first division.

All games should be on the same night at the same time in each division. Friday nights for the 1st division and saturday nights for the prem or vice versa.

More funding and interest needs to be shown in the game at underage level with the setting up of schools of excellence where the rep. side could go on to compete in the Milk cup and other major tournaments.

A monthly EL magazine.

Clubs need to get more attractive friendlies.

Free kids U12 to all grounds when supervised by an adult.

Segregation in all grounds for away fans,families,sponsors and etc.
17/09/2005, 2:23 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Free kids U12 to all grounds when supervised by an adult.

I've seen this happening in a few places before, imo it doesn't make much difference.
17/09/2005, 2:38 PM
A face

Just one or two to add myself ... and pinched from else where ...

Get the fan groups, clubs and league administration talking to one another.

The powers that be, that run our league .... when is the last time you have heard any offical statement from them on whatever matter ??

The league probably needs more admin staff who need to be more active, so getting funds for that would be a good step.

Another thing i'd do is get some of the refs to work full-time if possible, at least enable them to get more fitness training in the off season so they can keep up during the season.

A strong, independent disciplinary committee that would use video evidence where available, and ensure that punishments be meted out according to the rules and rigourously carried out, without fear or favour. One season of properly enforced discipline on all players, managers, clubs and referees would do enormous good for this league. (Proper stewarding/conduct at games would also be within the remit of this committee)

Have a league offical on every clubs board of directers to prevent overspending etc.

Set up a proper media group to work on behalf of the league. Something like the Like It, Love It company and sell the programming to RTE, TV3, TnaG, Setanta, UTV etc. so the league controls everything that officially is released to the media, in an effort to hang some of the media out to dry, trying to cash in on bad news stories of the league.

Get more money from Sky (no just one off floodlights) as payment for the damage to our league, either that or they should not be allowed broadcast in our country anymore, basically try and cripple them where ever possible.
17/09/2005, 3:11 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Get more money from Sky (no just one off floodlights) as payment for the damage to our league, either that or they should not be allowed broadcast in our country anymore, basically try and cripple them where ever possible.

I have a better idea for Sky...

When someone buys a digi-box or a dish,the Government levies a very high import tax and an equally high VAT, that way more people will be put off buying them and if they wan they're football fix they'll go to el matches or watch them on the telly.

A similar tax should be put on foreign football club memorabilia, especially Celtic stuff.
17/09/2005, 3:37 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I have a better idea for Sky...

When someone buys a digi-box or a dish,the Government levies a very high import tax and an equally high VAT, that way more people will be put off buying them and if they wan they're football fix they'll go to el matches or watch them on the telly.

A similar tax should be put on foreign football club memorabilia, especially Celtic stuff.

That is a great idea !! :eek: :) :ball:

Never thought of that ...... seems fair enough too tbh !!

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