All island team - Ireland (Merge FAI and IFA)

No better time to do it. FAI is a toxic brand, both national teams dying on their arse, revamped all island leagues, 4 provincial high performance academies (Leinster, Connacht, Munster and Ulster) and an elite national unit also.

Not saying it changes our fortunes overnight but it would be a start.

And a big **** off to any sectarian ****e too before it gets started.

:yawn:

there'd obviously be a die-hard against it. but i'd imagine the majority of people in northern ireland would be in favour of it. It's not like it's controversial when it comes to rugby, boxing, hockey, cricket, the olympics, badminton etc etc etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

there'd obviously be a die-hard against it. but i'd imagine the majority of people in northern ireland would be in favour of it. It's not like it's controversial when it comes to rugby, boxing, hockey, cricket, the olympics, badminton etc etc etc

---

What on earth has it got to do with "people in Northern Ireland", majority or not?

The NI team represents the IFA (ditto ROI/FAI). And the IFA is the representative body for football in NI. And I can guarantee you that the majority of football people in NI (players, supporters, administrators, i.e. not just the IFA itself) want nothing to do with being deprived of the team we've followed all our lives. And that applies equally towards an all-Ireland team or an all-UK team, the latter being the only such venture FIFA would ever countenance under its constitution, incidentally.

As for fans of other sports, or non-sports fans generally, it's got nothing whatever to do with them.

P.S. Why bother bringing this up now? For we all know that if/when the ROI team is doing well again, you will suddenly forget any interest in such a "merger" [sic], so why not just wait a while, eh? Will save a lot of hassle all round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

there'd obviously be a die-hard against it. but i'd imagine the majority of people in northern ireland would be in favour of it. It's not like it's controversial when it comes to rugby, boxing, hockey, cricket, the olympics, badminton etc etc etc

---

Unlike these sports - soccer is a working class sport. The elites, North, South and in Britain have been content in whipping up sectarianism in the North (and South and in Britain) to divide working class people along sectarian lines - while at the same time have been able to actively engage with one another across religious lines (in sport and elsewhere) confident that a divided working class would not threaten their power, control and wealth.

The reality is that the divisions in soccer - like all the divisions artificially created by the sectarian politicians on both sides - will only begin to dissipate when working class people in the North, and North and South, recognise that they have a common interest in uniting to oppose the elites who want to keep them divided.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

The NI team represents the IFA (ditto ROI/FAI). And the IFA is the representative body for football in NI. And I can guarantee you that the majority of football people in NI (players, supporters, administrators, i.e. not just the IFA itself) want nothing to do with being deprived of the team we've followed all our lives. And that applies equally towards an all-Ireland team or an all-UK team, the latter being the only such venture FIFA would ever countenance under its constitution, incidentally.

---

I would suspect that among players it is probably 50-50 - the admins have a vested interest in keeping the division. I would agree that a majority of the supporters, at this time, would not want an all-island team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As for fans of other sports, or non-sports fans generally, it's got nothing whatever to do with them.

---

Well it does - because it is the people who participate in these sports (like rugby) who have consistently fostered the division in soccer - as part of their efforts to create and maintain sectarian division on the island.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

I would suspect that among players it is probably 50-50 - the admins have a vested interest in keeping the division. I would agree that a majority of the supporters, at this time, would not want an all-island team.


Well it does - because it is the people who participate in these sports (like rugby) who have consistently fostered the division in soccer - as part of their efforts to create and maintain sectarian division on the island.

---

To all concerned, didn't take long for this topic (very relevant as it is) to deteriorate into a political discussion.
I have a feeling, and I could be way wrong, that the island of Ireland may only be a decade or so away from uniting.
I think if that did happen this would be a moot point.
Again, I might be wrong in this assumption, but we'll see.

I know its not the same, but just for the sake of it imagine telling supporters of Bohs and Shamrock Rovers that the 2 clubs are merging, or better yet go to Glasgow and tell Celtic and Rangers that they will now be 1 club Glasgow FC.... The reaction of fans might be a bit similar in some quarters

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

I would suspect that among players it is probably 50-50 - the admins have a vested interest in keeping the division. I would agree that a majority of the supporters, at this time, would not want an all-island team.

---

Spoken to many, have you?

Ever wondered why, years after the Kearns case confirmed their dual eligibility once and for all, the great majority of players from a Nationalist background still opt for NI, including those who would walk into the ROI team eg Conor Bradley?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Well it does - because it is the people who participate in these sports (like rugby) who have consistently fostered the division in soccer - as part of their efforts to create and maintain sectarian division on the island.

---

The 21st century has been trying to reach you, but you don't seem to be taking their calls... :rolleyes:

Lock the thread.

It isn't going to happen. There's little appetite for it to happen. None of us will see it in our lifetime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Unlike these sports - soccer is a working class sport. The elites, North, South and in Britain have been content in whipping up sectarianism in the North (and South and in Britain) to divide working class people along sectarian lines - while at the same time have been able to actively engage with one another across religious lines (in sport and elsewhere) confident that a divided working class would not threaten their power, control and wealth.

The reality is that the divisions in soccer - like all the divisions artificially created by the sectarian politicians on both sides - will only begin to dissipate when working class people in the North, and North and South, recognise that they have a common interest in uniting to oppose the elites who want to keep them divided.

---

I don't think you could really call boxing anything but a working class sport. The same would be true of a lot of the sprinters and track and field athletes coming from working class backgrounds...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

I don't think you could really call boxing anything but a working class sport. The same would be true of a lot of the sprinters and track and field athletes coming from working class backgrounds...

---

That is true - boxing is a working class sport as is athletics - but they are very much minority sports because they are individual sports. Participation in team sports is far higher - that is why soccer is a better comparison with rugby and cricket. The same percentage (if not higher) of the middle and upper classes play rugby, hockey and cricket, as the percentage of working class who play soccer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mark12345

To all concerned, didn't take long for this topic (very relevant as it is) to deteriorate into a political discussion.

---

The reality is that all sport is political - it cannot be avoided.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mark12345

I have a feeling, and I could be way wrong, that the island of Ireland may only be a decade or so away from uniting.

---

I would argue that the push for a border poll at this stage is a dangerous development. The Catholic population of the North never accepted being forced into a Northern state controlled by the Brits - anymore than the Protestant population would accept being forced into a united Ireland.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mark12345

I think if that did happen this would be a moot point.
Again, I might be wrong in this assumption, but we'll see.

---

In 1973 the British government held a border poll - 98% of the Catholic population boycotted the poll and refused to accept the result. If a border poll takes place within the next 5/10 years or so the likelihood is that the vast majority of the Protestant population in the North would boycott the poll and refuse to accept the result. The only potential alternative outcome is growing unity among the Catholic and Protestant working class around issues that directly affect them - that could potentially cut across existing sectarian divisions - and an agreement on the nature of a new unified state.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Ever wondered why, years after the Kearns case confirmed their dual eligibility once and for all, the great majority of players from a Nationalist background still opt for NI, including those who would walk into the ROI team eg Conor Bradley?

---

Is there an example apart from Conor Bradley for a nationalist player who would walk into the Irish team? To me, it's Bradley on one side - and Duffy, Gibson and McClean on the other.

After that, it's all about pragmatism, the likes of Michael Duffy and Mark Sykes went with their hearts and the likes of Niall McGinn, Charlie McCann and Stephen Mallon went with their heads, knowing they'd likely never have much of a future with Ireland. At youth level now, you've got Sean Moore and Trent Kone-Doherty who are real talents with real futures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Spoken to many, have you?

Ever wondered why, years after the Kearns case confirmed their dual eligibility once and for all, the great majority of players from a Nationalist background still opt for NI, including those who would walk into the ROI team eg Conor Bradley?

---

Opting to play for Northern Ireland - and supporting a unified team on this island are two completely different things. Some of the most famous players from a Protestant background in the North - e.g. George Best - were open advocates of an all-island team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

The 21st century has been trying to reach you, but you don't seem to be taking their calls... :rolleyes:

---

Are you trying to suggest that politicians on both sides of the sectarian divide don't try and whip up sectarian divisions when it suits them ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

That is true - boxing is a working class sport as is athletics - but they are very much minority sports because they are individual sports. Participation in team sports is far higher - that is why soccer is a better comparison with rugby and cricket. The same percentage (if not higher) of the middle and upper classes play rugby, hockey and cricket, as the percentage of working class who play soccer.

---

Ah Jaysus, I think I preferred it when the "debate" proceeded along simple Sectarian lines - bring Class into it as well and it becomes even more fcuked up.

I guess that only leaves Conspiracy to complete the set, so what do yis reckon, fellas? John Delaney isn't actually a snake, but a shape-shifting lizard and Hill and Canham are his evil Illuminati underlings?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Ah Jaysus, I think I preferred it when the "debate" proceeded along simple Sectarian lines - bring Class into it as well and it becomes even more fcuked up.

---

well 'class politics' is the one thing that can cut across 'sectarian politics' - and that has been demonstrated on numerous occasions in the past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I guess that only leaves Conspiracy to complete the set, so what do yis reckon, fellas? John Delaney isn't actually a snake, but a shape-shifting lizard and Hill and Canham are his evil Illuminati underlings?

---

Trying to deflect now :rolleyes:

I know of a fella who got talking to Aaron Hughes and Johnny Evans in Spain one summer. Asked them about an All island team, both said every player would welcome it, they referred to the rugby lads being successful but neither thought the suits would let it happen. Both also said it was a real honour to play for NI by the way. Lads like this obviously don't warm to idea of representing the Republic, but playing for Ireland is a different matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Is there an example apart from Conor Bradley for a nationalist player who would walk into the Irish team? To me, it's Bradley on one side - and Duffy, Gibson and McClean on the other.

---

Chris Baird revealed that he was approached, as was Shane Ferguson at the time when he has fallen out with Nigel Worthington and wasn't getting picked for NI. I have no doubt that there were other approaches, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

At youth level now, you've got Sean Moore and Trent Kone-Doherty who are real talents with real futures.

---

Aye, but there are many more you'll not have heard of who are firmly in the NI set-up.

So that if you looked at NI's youth teams - U-16, U-17, U-19 etc - the majority are probably from the Nationalist community, including many of them playing their club football with Linfield or Glentoran. One notable example is Derry City's Daithi McCallion, currently on loan to Ballymena, after a loan at Finn Harps. He's the son of Elisha McCallion, former Sinn Fein MP for Derry and ex-Irish Senator!
https://twitter.com/DaithiMcC/status...40640728240130

At those ages, you don't know who's going to make it through to Senior level (only a tiny minority), meaning that the players themselves and their families/agents will feel that they've just as good a chance with ROI as NI. And it is common knowledge that the FAI routinely scouts NI's underage footballers all the time, both NT and club. Not only that, but it is known that they make inducements to parents etc. And let's face it, even if they don't ever make it all trhew way through, so what? It's just a normal cost of doing business.

Yet those few you cite are the exception, not the norm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Opting to play for Northern Ireland - and supporting a unified team on this island are two completely different things. Some of the most famous players from a Protestant background in the North - e.g. George Best - were open advocates of an all-island team.

---

Ah right, the late George Best. who last kicked a ball 40 years ago. (Or 50, if you count when sober.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Are you trying to suggest that politicians on both sides of the sectarian divide don't try and whip up sectarian divisions when it suits them ?

---

No doubt, But only a few sad cases ever pay them much attention - the rest of us get on with watching the football.

Maybe you should try it too, sometime?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

well 'class politics' is the one thing that can cut across 'sectarian politics' - and that has been demonstrated on numerous occasions in the past.

---

:yawn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Trying to deflect now :rolleyes:

---

No, not deflecting, just taking the p1ss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strongbow10

I know of a fella who got talking to Aaron Hughes and Johnny Evans in Spain one summer. Asked them about an All island team, both said every player would welcome it, they referred to the rugby lads being successful but neither thought the suits would let it happen.

---

Both Aaron and Jonny are very easy-going, diplomatic people, so who knows, they might have said that first part.

But I simply do not believe they will have said "every (other) player" would welcome it too - unless I know some of their teammates better than they do!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

The reality is that all sport is political - it cannot be avoided.


I would argue that the push for a border poll at this stage is a dangerous development. The Catholic population of the North never accepted being forced into a Northern state controlled by the Brits - anymore than the Protestant population would accept being forced into a united Ireland.


In 1973 the British government held a border poll - 98% of the Catholic population boycotted the poll and refused to accept the result. If a border poll takes place within the next 5/10 years or so the likelihood is that the vast majority of the Protestant population in the North would boycott the poll and refuse to accept the result. The only potential alternative outcome is growing unity among the Catholic and Protestant working class around issues that directly affect them - that could potentially cut across existing sectarian divisions - and an agreement on the nature of a new unified state.

---

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

What on earth has it got to do with "people in Northern Ireland", majority or not?

The NI team represents the IFA (ditto ROI/FAI). And the IFA is the representative body for football in NI. And I can guarantee you that the majority of football people in NI (players, supporters, administrators, i.e. not just the IFA itself) want nothing to do with being deprived of the team we've followed all our lives. And that applies equally towards an all-Ireland team or an all-UK team, the latter being the only such venture FIFA would ever countenance under its constitution, incidentally.

As for fans of other sports, or non-sports fans generally, it's got nothing whatever to do with them.

P.S. Why bother bringing this up now? For we all know that if/when the ROI team is doing well again, you will suddenly forget any interest in such a "merger" [sic], so why not just wait a while, eh? Will save a lot of hassle all round.

---

This is the most bizarre argument I have ever heard. The NI team represents Northern Ireland. The clue is in the name. When was the last time you heard a player saying how proud they were to represent their football association? Your argument is really a tacit acknowledgement that most people in NI would probably be happy with a combined team, as indeed have several high profile former NI players. To suggest that a few thousand die-hard NI supporters should have a veto is ludicrous, but then again there is a precedent for this kind of anti-democratic sentiment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Lock the thread.

It isn't going to happen. There's little appetite for it to happen. None of us will see it in our lifetime.

---

Done.