Proof Givens is clueless

U-21 Team for tonight.

Starting Line-Up: Henderson (Aston Villa); Foley (Luton Town), Kelly (Tottenham Hotspur), Fitzgerald (Bury), Sheehan (Leicester City); Cregg (Arsenal), Whelan (Sheffield Wednesday), O’Brien (Bolton Wanderers), Tabb (Brentford); Murphy (Sunderland), Doyle (Reading).

Liam Keanrey was first choice last year & i assumed his original omission was because he overage. However Given has now called him up to sit on the bench when hes arguable in much better form this year.

:rolleyes:

I heard he was allowed to play last night instead...

He played last night in Cork hardly ideal preparation for a game in Lurgan.

Givens wouldn't know much about preparation to start with.
The sooner the FAI stop paying that foreign league pimp the better.
If his statements and attitude don't get him fired surely his results will

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Originally Posted by tiktok

If his statements and attitude don't get him fired surely his results will

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If anyone's looking for proof of Givens' abilities, or lack therof, check out the Group Table. One of our best U21 squads ever and the results have been crap. Before that we were 12 or 13 unbeaten though, but mostly in friendlies.

Pat Dolan or Roddy Collins for next U21 manager is my suggestion. About time an eL manager got a crack of the whip ( Brian Kerr aside ).

Roddy Collins? Are you kidding? :confused:

Wouldn't mind seeing if Pete Mahon/Eddie Wallace could double-job, given the success they've had with our young team and their knowledge of Irish underage football. Probably a complete non-runner though.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Wouldn't mind seeing if Pete Mahon/Eddie Wallace could double-job, given the success they've had with our young team and their knowledge of Irish underage football. Probably a complete non-runner though.

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You've got a good point actually Stu. I reckon they'd be good.

Why has Don Givens been allowed to carry on at U-21 level despite being so crap? :confused: I always though Kerr really showed him up during his underage days. We have a lot of success prior to that level and decent success at senior level and this gap between.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Wouldn't mind seeing if Pete Mahon/Eddie Wallace could double-job

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I would. Can do without our management team being distracted by this.

Given always uses the excuse that its his job to develop players for the senior team i.e. winning not important.

:rolleyes:

While that's true to a certain extent Givens has achieved very little with the talent available to him. Has he ever been close to winning a group?

I think people overestimate our u21 team .. For example take the team England have at under 21 and compare it to ours . England have a good bit of premiership experience and we have very little . We hav a couple of potentially decent players but nothing amazing .. And think he was being kind to Kearney letting him play for Cork decent thing to do helping out a LOI club so it was ..

Just read on eleven-a-side.com that Kearney has been called up.

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Originally Posted by pete

Given always uses the excuse that its his job to develop players for the senior team i.e. winning not important.

:rolleyes:

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I would say that winning is not as important, seedings are not affected by losses.
And as the losses are many thats some sort of comfort.

The question remains are the players developing?
Well they are getting older.

Apart from being one of Irelands top strikers (5 candidates there) and worth some sort of a pension in my opinion for those glory moments in the '70s, but is it necessary to give him ( and Bonner) a serious responsibility?
We could put Given in charge of security and discipline.
Roll calls at 6.30 am, saluting the flag and that sort of thing.
His job satisfaction would hit the roof with supervising those frigid Autumn dips on Portmarnock beach.
On discipline, for like leaving your mobile phone on, having to listen to Packie Bonner tell a bed time story while the rest of the lads are out on the tear. But that could be interpreted as cruel and inhuman punishment.
Or while Bohes are away, turn Dalymount into some sort of a theme park. Relive Irelands glory goals,
a live tour on the sacred sod, reanactment with Don and Ray, afterwards the original RTE reels (the ones without the crude overdubbing using Jimmy Magee's 70 year old voice)
Then Eoin and Ray take the mike for a sing song just like the ones we use to have after yet another drubbing on a foreign field.

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Originally Posted by zinedineontour

I think people overestimate our u21 team .. For example take the team England have at under 21 and compare it to ours . England have a good bit of premiership experience and we have very little . We hav a couple of potentially decent players but nothing amazing .. And think he was being kind to Kearney letting him play for Cork decent thing to do helping out a LOI club so it was ..

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England have so much strength in depth that you can't compare them to us. Its the same at senior level too. Player to player they will always be better.

Henderson - Brighton first team (Championship)
Stephen Kelly - Spurs 1st team last season. Has to do it again this season. (Prem)
Kevin Foley - Luton first team (Championship)
Fitzgerald - Bury 1st team (League 1)
McCarthy - Leicester 1st team (Championship)
Willo Flood - Man City reserves. Coventry 1st team most likely.
Potter - Liverpool sub. Won't get his chance in the centre. Probably better off moving on loan. Has set up a goal or 2 evrey time he's moved into the centre during games.
Whelan - Sheffield Wednesday vice captain I think. (Championship)
McGeady - Off form. When on form will get back into the Celtic team. (SPL)
Murphy - Reading 3rd choice atm.
Doyle - Sunderland backup atm.

About 5 years ago we wouldn't have had many U-21 players playing 1st team football for their clubs.

Northern Ireland went 2-0 up but Doyle then scored a brace (one was a peno) to make it 2-2. Match still in play.

I dont understand how the guy still has that job.

Apart from the ****e results, its the recent comments over Kevin Doyle and the Eircom league players that should get him sacked. :mad:

This is a quote he made about Eircom League players in the squad....

"Hopefully, they are only coming home for a short while and they will eventually return to England where the standard is higher."

I mean ..what the ****!!!! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Schumi

I would. Can do without our management team being distracted by this.

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Meh. Steve McClaren manages coaching England and managing Middlesborough. Mahon knows about any player in Ireland and would know some about the underage scene in England through scouting there for players. He currently mixes managing UCD and a day job. Couldn't see the club agreeing to it though.

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Originally Posted by zidaneontour

I think people overestimate our u21 team. For example take the team England have at under 21 and compare it to ours.

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No-one's comparigng us to England. They are, though, looking at the players in our squad - who aren't bad, and some of whom are getting first team experience and even European experience - and comparing that to the results we're getting. I honestly think the team should be getting better results - especially when you compare the results of the other underage teams.

But there is a catch 22 - on another thread, people are praising the Dutch system for placing development above results, and yet here. people (different people, granted) are criticising Givens over results.

Someone somewhere else though made a very good point about his attitude to eL players - dropping a couple during our off season because they weren't match fit and then not re-instating them during the English off-season. That's nonsense.

Givens is a ****** of the highest order. Nothing other than a lowlife who gets a kick out of pimping young players to British clubs. The eircom League players have saved his arse on numerous occasions and he still slags the league off. I can't wait to be sat right behind the dugouts for the Ireland-France game to tell him EXACTLY what I think of him.


GIVENS OUT

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Originally Posted by Éanna

GIVENS OUT

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I'll second that :ball:

2-2 against NI is shocking with more or less 1st choice minus say 3 players.

NI had a guy playing with Gretna (Scottish 2nd division).

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by pete

2-2 against NI is shocking with more or less 1st choice minus say 3 players.

NI had a guy playing with Gretna (Scottish 2nd division).

:rolleyes:

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Just back from Lurgan and the less said the better. Stephen Kelly at centre half didn't work out.

Only got into game when two down and that was thanks to Jay Tabb winning both spot kicks. Doyle and Murphy seem to have had their natural skills coached out of them already.

NI were as poor but then so was their player base. Mc Court flattered to deceive, lots of flair but final product poor.

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Originally Posted by pete

NI had a guy playing with Gretna (Scottish 2nd division).

:rolleyes:

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Gretna aren't far off top SD1 standard though - they're being bankrolled, are looking like steamrolling Division 2 and are offering bigger wages than some of the smaller SPL sides. Think we had a player with Ross County a couple of years ago (was it Gethins?)

Doesn't make up for the fact that it's another poor result, with all respect to NI.

I think it was a particularly poor result for ROI, considering a good number of the U21s playing in England/Scotland had been left out to give some Irish League talent a chance.

Given called up Kearney at 1 day notice after he'd played a tough game & didn't even have him on the bench.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by pete

Given called up Kearney at 1 day notice after he'd played a tough game & didn't even have him on the bench.

:rolleyes:

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ayed should have been in the squad from the start

well lads they cant be that bad cos they have a rovers reserve on the bench for them :)