Setanta - Holland vs ireland 1981

Don't know if anyone saw this on Saturday night, repeated again last night. setanta are runnihn archive sof old irish matches, they show the full 90 minutes. They showed Ireland/Spain from 1989 last week, and this week was Holland/ireland from 1981, a 2-2 draw.

A couple of things after watching the match:-

1. lawrenson was pure class, both at defending and going forward..
2. Stapelton the same, his ability to hold the ball up was super..
3. The quality of football we played was great.

For those who are interseted the tEam was

mcDonagh
langan
devine
martin
oleary
lawrenson
brady
grealish
heighway
robinson
stapleton

I saw this and was really impressed by O'Leary and Lawrenson, two footballing centre-halves.

Couldn't believe my luck when I got up yesterday morning and found this on Setanta by pure chance. What a header by Stapo for the second equaliser. Agree that Lawrenson was pure class. Oh to have him now !!! Impressed as well by the size of the Green army (in days long before the Celtic tiger) and the noise they made. Such a pity we didn't qualify from that group ....

how much is setanta on sky for a year ?

€13 a month .... for this you also get CelticTV, RangersTV and the other 2 Setanta channels (433 & 434 I think)

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Couldn't believe my luck when I got up yesterday morning and found this on Setanta by pure chance. What a header by Stapo for the second equaliser. Agree that Lawrenson was pure class. Oh to have him now !!! Impressed as well by the size of the Green army (in days long before the Celtic tiger) and the noise they made. Such a pity we didn't qualify from that group ....

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My first away game. Transalpino boat and train.

About 5,000 travelling fans including a significant London Irish support.

Great performance and we had a really great team then. I think we can take it now as read that the referee was bribed for our defeat in Brussels given Anderlect were throwing money around to referees at the time and no referee is that incompetent. Even still we lost out on goal difference to France.

I put this up here before, from the Tribune years ago. That team was before my time but the quality running through it is obvious. Lawrenson, O'Leary, Brady, Stapleton, a team of footballers. What a shame we got shafted out of it.

Sunday Tribune April 28, 2002

THE afternoon swells hot and bright in Barreiro, the southern Lisbon suburb where the Tagus pours into the Atlantic. It is low tide and fishing boats are stuck fast in the sand, while the gulls comb the ground for lugworms and sing an ugly squawking chorus. The man who was accused by Eoin Hand of taking a bribe, who drove Liam Brady to tears, who stopped perhaps the greatest Ireland team ever from going to the World Cup finals, sits in the corner of his favourite restaurant, admiring the scene, picking through his lunch of barbecued cod.

He's a simple, quixotic old man, unfailingly courteous, with a tendency to see events through a romantic scrim.

He is spry for his 64 years, immaculately turned out in a sober suit, a pink shirt with creases you could cut yourself on and a tie knotted with a neatness that hints at an obsessive nature.

It's more than 20 years since Raul Nazare's most controversial night's work in nearly four decades of refereeing, yet the impact of his decisions in Brussels in 1981 has never been forgotten. "It was a historic game and I was very aware of this," he says.

"If Ireland had got a draw that night, they would have gone to the World Cup in 1982. If that happened, it would have been huge. And I honestly say to you that secretly I wanted Ireland to win, because they were more humble. They needed to go more. And because I liked Mickey Walsh. He played here, with Oporto. We were friends. He had the opportunity to score that night, but he missed so many times. I felt like biting his ears." His memory of what happened is oddly patchy. He remembers the lightning and the fire-hose from the heavens that almost caused him to abandon the match. And he remembers that the game turned on two vigorously disputed decisions, one at the end of the first half and one at the end of the second. First, he disallowed a perfectly legitimate goal by Frank Stapleton; then he awarded Belgium a dubious free-kick from which they scored the winner three minutes from the end. "I know there was some agitation after the game, I think because all of the Irish knew they weren't going to the World Cup.

“I will always remember what Walsh said to me. He said: 'Raul, I am very sad. The hearts of all the Irish nation are crying.’” Walsh, in fact, called him a cheat, while Brady asked Walsh for the Portuguese word for thief, then confronted Nazare with it, jabbing a finger in the referee's face byway of punctuation. Hand recalls saying to Raul: “You're a disgrace. You've been paid off. You've robbed us.” “I don't speak too good other languages,” Raul says, as he waves to some friends at an adjoining table. “But I was always very good at reading what was in a player's eyes.

”One time, I refereed a match with Spartak Moscow and this player, he shouted something at me. I couldn't understand him, but I knew it was something bad, so I gave him a red card and he left the field crying. At half-time, the FIFA delegate came to me and said the manager of the team was warning the players: ‘Be careful. That guy speaks Russian.’ But in the game in Brussels, I saw only sadness in the eyes of the Irish players, regretting that they weren't going to be in the World Cup. And Walsh saying to me about the hearts of the Irish nation. I'll never forget that.” He finishes picking the bones on his plate clean, lays down his knife and fork and frowns importantly. “My wife did not like me being a referee. Too dangerous. Too many police escorts out of stadiums. Not every wife is strong enough to be a referee's wife. Their life is very lonely. We have a daughter. Elsa is her name. When she was a little girl, she was a ballerina. I missed almost every show she did because I was never at home. It makes me sad to think about this.” When he wasn't away refereeing, Raul worked as a trade union representative with Portuguese Telecom, where he's still employed, mostly brokering early retirement deals for older employees. His work takes him abroad to conferences, where he regularly meets Irish people who want to rake up the past. “My conscience is tranquil,” he says. "This is what I say to them. I tell them that yes I know I made the hearts of the Irish nation very sad when I disallowed that goal. But you Irish people have problems recognising that there was a fault.” So, twenty-one-and-a-half years on, can he explain for the first time what the fault was? “Frank Stapleton was the fault,” he offers, folding his napkin in front of him.

”He was offside. I remember this very clearly. It was not really my decision, you see. It was the linesman who gave me the indication. When you are a referee, you have to have total trust in your assistants. And I say this as someone who has refereed many international matches and who was considered three times the Portuguese referee of the year, that when I made this decision I had the full conviction that I was doing the right thing at the time.

“No-one is perfect. Perfection does not exist. They said that Christ was perfect, but I am not so sure about that. I had a colleague in the World Cup in 1986. He was the referee for Argentina against England. Everybody in the ground saw Maradona score with his hand, except for him and his linesman. For one week afterwards, he did not sleep. He knows today that his mistake made Argentina the champions of the world. When you are a player and you make a mistake, you can go and score a goal to compensate for this. When you are a referee, you have to live with what you have done.” He says he's lived easily with what happened that night in Brussels. “It was not a goal,” he says, waving his hand blandly. “I spoke to the linesman after the game and also on the plane coming home. He told me he lifted his flag because he felt that Stapleton was offside. In fact, I remember now that I had blown the whistle before Stapleton touched the ball. So technically, you see, I did not disallow the goal, because there was no goal to disallow.”

Has he ever watched a recording of the incident? “No,” he says. “Very few times do I watch matches that I have refereed.” So would he like to see this one? “If you have the tape, I would like very much to see it.” Raul's apartment, on the sixth floor of a dayglo pink flat complex, is much like the man himself, compulsively tidy with a polished, eager aspect to it. He owns the entire landing, he explains. Elsa and her husband, Antonio, live in the apartment next door and they too are crowded around Raul's widescreen television to watch this match they've heard so much talk about. Raul slides the tape out of its dust jacket, noting two peremptory exclamation marks written in biro after the words, ‘Ireland v Belgium’ on the side of the tape. He looks at it quizzically. It's Eoin Hand's copy of the match, it’s explained, and a grin flexes across his face. “Now,” he says, "I understand." He slips the tape into the machine and Stapleton's goal is replayed in 48-inch technicolour. Ireland have a freekick on the edge of the Belgian penalty box. Brady is standing over the ball, Stapleton loitering around the penalty spot. Just before Brady chips the ball into the box, Stapleton makes a run for the near post, beats the goalkeeper to the ball and side-foots it into the net. The whistle is blown after the goal is scored.

Raul looks at the screen, his eyebrows are knotted in consternation. “Let me see it again,” he says. Antonio rewinds the tape and once more Jimmy Magee's voice fills the living-room. Kevin Moran has come forward for it. Ireland have positioned Moran, number five, Stapleton, number eight, and Robinson, number 11.They're the only three.

Raul gets up from the sofa and moves closer to the television. He asks to see the sequence a third time, watching it this time on his knees, his nose no more than six inches away from the glass. For years the idea that Stapleton was offside has salved his conscience, but here in front of him now there’s this one recalcitrant image that refuses to support his story. The linesman doesn't signal at all; not until a full three seconds after Raul has disallowed Stapleton's goal does he guiltily raise his flag. Can he explain this?

”I think,” he says, looking askance, “that I made a mistake when I told you it was offside. Yes, now I remember. I awarded an indirect free-kick. My hand is up to say it is indirect. And Liam Brady shoots direct. This is why the goal was disallowed. Nobody touches the ball before it goes into the goal.” But Stapleton clearly does. He practically volleys the ball into the net. “Let me see it again,” he says, putting on his glasses. Antonio, a dutiful sort with milk bottle lenses and severely parted hair, obliges. “Yes, I can see now,” Raul says. “It goes straight into the goal.” “My father-in-law is right,” says Antonio. “This Frank Stapleton man, he does not touch the ball.” Antonio drops his credentials into the conversation. For a living, he sells slow motion technology to television companies. And this, he says, allows him to speak with conviction. “You see,” he says, rewinding the tape, then replaying it in quarter time, “the ball goes straight into the goal. Straight in. Not one man touches it.” The slow motion replay clearly shows Stapleton catching Brady's free-kick on his instep.

“I do not like slow motion,” says Raul. “It flickers too much. You cannot see anything.” “But father-in-law,” Antonio says, “you can see that the ball does not touch anyone.” Elsa isn't so certain. She loves her father but watching the tape she can't help but think that the flight of the ball changed direction before it entered the goal. Raul suggests a smaller television and the debate repairs to Elsa's old room, where a 14-inch portable sits among a menagerie of stuffed animals. The incident is replayed again, four sets of eyes pressed close to the screen. Stapleton's contact is even clearer on this television. Then Raul remembers something. He can't believe it didn't occur to him before.

“The ball hits off me,” he says. “It hits off my back and goes into the goal. I remember now that that is why I disallowed it. Yes, you were right, it does change direction. But this is only because it hits me and not Stapleton.” “My father-in-law is right,” says Antonio. “The ball hits his back and goes into the goal. Frank Stapleton does not touch it.” “My position is not correct,” Raul acknowledges. When the free-kick is taken, he is running backwards towards the six-yard area, right into the eye of the action, where he collides with Walter Meeuws, the nearest Belgian player to the ball. It’s doubtful whether Raul even saw the goal and might have instinctively disallowed it because he felt he’d unfairly stopped the Belgian defender from getting to the ball ahead of Stapleton. “I should have been at the edge of the penalty box, not in amongst the players. Frank Stapleton, you can see, is trying to get to the ball, and his instinct is to get me out of the way.” He uses Elsa and Antonio to choreograph the scene.

Antonio is Raul, Elsa is Meeuws, Raul is Stapleton. “So I'm in the penalty box, where I shouldn't be, and Frank Stapleton pushes me and he turns me.” Antonio and Elsa perform an awkward do-se-do. “And when I turn, the ball hits off my back and it goes into the goal. I remember now.” The evidence on the tape, though, is confounding.

You can watch the sequence a hundred times, until the image becomes a blur of Mondrian pixels, and you will never see what Raul claims happened. He is at least four feet away from the ball when Stapleton kicks it. “My father is right,” says Elsa, but with little conviction.

The tape is forwarded to the other incident on which the game hinged. It happens on the very spot where Brady took his free-kick. There are three minutes left and the Belgians are becoming increasingly frustrated at being shut out. Eric Gerets takes matters into his own hands.

Meeuws sends a long ball over the top of the Irish defence and the Belgian captain takes a dive on the edge of the box.

His effort to win a free-kick is utterly artless. There isn’t an Irish player within touching distance of him and he hits the ground some 10 yards away from where he left it.

Raul asks to see it again before he explains himself. “Yes he is clowning, there is no doubt, but there is some physical contact with this player, Steve Heighway.” The camera picked up no such contact. “You can’t see it on the tape, but I could see it where I was, from the ground. Gerets makes a spectacle of himself, but he is touched. I admit it’s a light touch, but this contact is there, I can promise you.” The shell-games continue for 20 more minutes before the tape rolls onto what happens next. Rene Vandereycken sends a rasping shot over the Irish wall. The ball hits the top of the crossbar and flies high into the air. Seamus McDonagh, who dived to save the original shot, is lying in the mud and can't stand up in time to stop Jan Ceulemans climbing high over a posse of players to nod the ball into the net.

”Irish people say that this is the reason why your team never went to the World Cup,” he says. “It is because I gave the free-kick. But do they ever ask where are your defenders? Where are they when the goal is scored? Why do they not stop the goal?” He is struggling to be believed now and he knows it. “And this Frank Stapleton goal that we watched,” he says, “why did he not protest to me? He just throws his arms open.” Perhaps because Raul was already surrounded by furious Irish players? “No, it was because he knew he didn't touch the ball. It hit my back. And the Irish, they asked FIFA to investigate this and FIFA didn't even want to interview me. So this proves that my decisions were correct. Three times I won the golden whistle for being the Portuguese referee of the year. They know I am an honest man, that my conscience is tranquil.” His defence is taking on a more desperate edge.

The sacred verities that give shape to his world are being challenged by a complete stranger and in front of the family he cherishes. Watching the footage of Hand accusing him of taking money and Brady calling him a thief would be pointless. He is having trouble enough with his compass now.

In the elevator, he does make one concession, a last effort almost to plea-bargain away his culpability. “I am very angry with myself because of my position for the goal,” he says. “This I admit. I was to blame, because I should not have been standing where I was, in amongst the players. Then it would never have hit my back and Ireland would have gone to the World Cup.” Out in the street, he performs a little mime act by way of a farewell, blowing an imaginary whistle, then proffering an invisible red card and, as the car pulls off, pointing in the direction of the road, this bizarre little man who has been left with the shock of seeing ghosts he thought were long ago laid to rest.

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Originally Posted by PaulB

Don't know if anyone saw this on Saturday night, repeated again last night. setanta are runnihn archive sof old irish matches, they show the full 90 minutes. They showed Ireland/Spain from 1989 last week, and this week was Holland/ireland from 1981, a 2-2 draw.

A couple of things after watching the match:-

1. lawrenson was pure class, both at defending and going forward..
2. Stapelton the same, his ability to hold the ball up was super..
3. The quality of football we played was great.

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It was called total football :-)
If they show the home game from that time against Holland its not to be missed. If they had microphones around the pitch side then, they would have exploded in the 2nd half. Pure athmosphere.
Its hard to equate Stapelton the player with what he presents now as a pundit. His performance in the French game (the last one of that group) is up there with the greatest ever in an Irish shirt. Near the end of his career, after Blackburn, he was signed by Ajax managed by Cruyff, couldn't play because of serious injury but it was recognition from an equal :-) that even near the end of his playing days Cruyff wanted him in his team.

My first game too and fantastic memories of it. Between three (Daily Mail) and five (De Telegraaf) thousand Irish supporters were there. Funny reading one certain self -proclaimed greatest Irish supporter claiming in that Eirecom Park brochure a few years back, that there were only 200 'hardcore' at the game. :rolleyes:

Would love to get hold of a copy of the game if anyone managed to record it.

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Originally Posted by Donal81

”I think,” he says, looking askance, .

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Most interesting, thanks for posting

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Originally Posted by lopez

. Funny reading one certain self -proclaimed greatest Irish supporter claiming in that Eirecom Park brochure a few years back, that there were only 200 'hardcore' at the game. :rolleyes:

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That guy (GIS) has the memory of a supergrass, remembers stuff that never happened in places hes never been.

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

That guy (GIS) has the memory of a supergrass, remembers stuff that never happened in places hes never been.

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Well I know one place he's never been to, and it has got only five pubs. ;)

This match is on Setanta again at 5.45 on Wednesday. Same day as the Italy friendly so will probably have to be taped. The next archive is 9.40 on Saturday night.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Well I know one place he's never been to, and it has got only five pubs. ;)

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:) yeah remember singing that song "***** ***** hes on a bus "

Bloody hell remember it well.

Mick Martin & Stevie Heighway.
Along with Liam, Dave & Frank.
Grealish (the last great to sport a beard?) looking & tackling like some sort of fire-banded, red-haired caricatured celt.

The home game was magic too. Went one down only to win 2-1. Is that the game that Lawro scored the winner with a diving header?

The next home game against Holland was eventful as well. Probably the last competitive game played at Dalymount (of note anyway, Lansdowne's East stand was rebuilt in 83). We were 2 up at half time. Stapo missed a sitter at the shed in the second half - then they brought on Gullit (debut?) and they won 2-3.

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Originally Posted by gypsydownunder

Bloody hell remember it well.

Mick Martin & Stevie Heighway.
Along with Liam, Dave & Frank.
Grealish (the last great to sport a beard?) looking & tackling like some sort of fire-banded, red-haired caricatured celt.

The home game was magic too. Went one down only to win 2-1. Is that the game that Lawro scored the winner with a diving header?

The next home game against Holland was eventful as well. Probably the last competitive game played at Dalymount (of note anyway, Lansdowne's East stand was rebuilt in 83). We were 2 up at half time. Stapo missed a sitter at the shed in the second half - then they brought on Gullit (debut?) and they won 2-3.

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That's the one a diving header from Lawrenson.

I think the Malta game (we won 8-0) was a month after Holland but it might have been the month before. This one is thus the last ever competitive game we've played at Dalymount.

Hey. Less of the last EVER. :)

Football could come home!

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Originally Posted by lopez

My first game too and fantastic memories of it. Between three (Daily Mail) and five (De Telegraaf) thousand Irish supporters were there. Funny reading one certain self -proclaimed greatest Irish supporter claiming in that Eirecom Park brochure a few years back, that there were only 200 'hardcore' at the game. :rolleyes:

Would love to get hold of a copy of the game if anyone managed to record it.

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There was quite abig travelling support as well as expats at Wembley in 1957 for the World Cup tie.

The first real big exodus outsid eof these islands by Irish fans was to Paris in 1976. 2,000 was the estimate I remember. Again decent numbers to Paris in 1980.

We had only 13 fans in Paris in 1965 for the World Cup playoff v Spain.

Travel costs must be considered here too though. It would have been a huge expense to fly and most fans would have gone by boat and even then it was expensive.

13 fans ? Back in the days eh .... there was what 30,000 in paris for the last game

5,000 Irish fans at game definetely. All behind the goal Stapleton scored into. Great game and atmosphere. Got my mug in the Herald when I was off sick from the Post Office but they put down the wrong names! We almost won that game too. I think it was Gerry Ryan who almost socred right at the death. And then as we came out of the ground word came the Norway had beaten England. What more could you want!

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

5,000 Irish fans at game definetely. All behind the goal Stapleton scored into. Great game and atmosphere. Got my mug in the Herald when I was off sick from the Post Office but they put down the wrong names! We almost won that game too. I think it was Gerry Ryan who almost socred right at the death. And then as we came out of the ground word came the Norway had beaten England. What more could you want!

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Seeing as you ask, Gerry Ryan to score.

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Originally Posted by gspain

The first real big exodus outsid eof these islands by Irish fans was to Paris in 1976. 2,000 was the estimate I remember. Again decent numbers to Paris in 1980.

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Sorry Gary

But I think the really first big exodus was Wembley on 6 Feb 1980 (est 20000 - no such thing as Ryanair). Every B&I (yah wha Gay? for you younger wans) sailing was full as were all the old Sealink ferries for days before.

I will not mention the piglet released onto the pitch a la the french cockerel except to say I was not cuplable for smuggling the live pork into England :D

Still meet up with my contemporaries on that trip and boy do we have some strange stories e.g. Regent Palace Hotel????







Can anyone recall

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

13 fans ? Back in the days eh .... there was what 30,000 in paris for the last game

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Yes - all spaniards. Paris was full of spanish ex pats. Highbury was the original venue planned for the playoff but the Spaniards got a bit worried about playing in front of Irish fans again and offered to let the F.A.I. keep all the gate money if they'd agree to play in Paris.

This Saturday 8.45 Setanta showing Ireland vs Holland 1980, WC Qualifier.

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Originally Posted by PaulB

This Saturday 8.45 Setanta showing Ireland vs Holland 1980, WC Qualifier.

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Was that the one where Lawrenson scored with a funny looking diving header?

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

I saw this and was really impressed by O'Leary and Lawrenson, two footballing centre-halves.

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Yip was at that game, my first away match Lawrenson was brilliant....

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Was that the one where Lawrenson scored with a funny looking diving header?

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I believe so, 2-1 i think it was

How many fans travelled to the first competitve game under Charlton at Belgium 1984 or 85? I remember watching it in a pub in Bray (after the 5th attempt I found one that would show it). After Brady slotted home the equalising penalty the camera finally went to the Irish fans, looked to be only a few hundred. Say it aint so.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Was that the one where Lawrenson scored with a funny looking diving header?

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Originally Posted by Condex

Yip was at that game, my first away match Lawrenson was brilliant....

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Condex,
The game where Lawrenson scored with the diving header was played at home, not away, in September 1980.

Holland scored first about 10 minutes after half-time, Gerry Daly scored with about 10 minutes to go (Tony Grealish passed to him with the Dutch looking to play offside). Five minutes later, Daly was fouled outside the box, Brady took the free and Lawrenson scored with a diving header.

The Irish team that day was: Peyton, Langan, David O'Leary, Pierce O'Leary, Hughton, Daly, Lawrenson, Grealish, Brady, Stapleton, Givens.

The away game was played in Rotterdam in September 1981 when we got a 2-2 draw. Holland went goal up early on and Michael Robinson scored with a volley just before half time. Holland scored again from a penalty, given away by David Langan. Ireland equalised again five minutes later after Lawrenson (who had just moved to Liverpool from Brighton) crossed for Stapleton to head in.

The team that day; McDonagh, Langan, D.O'Leary, Lawrenson, Devine, Martin, Grealish, Brady, Heighway, Stapleton, Robinson. Subs: Gerry Ryan for Heighway, Whelan for Martin.

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Originally Posted by geysir

How many fans travelled to the first competitve game under Charlton at Belgium 1984 or 85? I remember watching it in a pub in Bray (after the 5th attempt I found one that would show it). After Brady slotted home the equalising penalty the camera finally went to the Irish fans, looked to be only a few hundred. Say it aint so.

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think this game was sept 86 and belgium had just reached the semi finals of the wc in mexico. also seem to remember only a few hundred Irish at the match