Grounds for sharing set to gather momentum

Grounds for sharing set to gather momentum

Wednesday August 3rd 2005


THE day is not too far away when Eircom League clubs are going to be urged to consider ground-sharing in order to quickly improve the standard of stadiums within the league.

While there is no doubt that the move to summer soccer has greatly helped the standard of football, thanks to the improvement in the quality of pitches, it hasn't resulted in a massive improvement in the numbers going through the turnstiles.

Figures for the current season are up about three per cent on 2004 and are averaging around 12,000 per week, but it is clear to some within the game that soccer needs to follow the example of greyhound racing if it is to see a proper jump in attendance figures.

While some Eircom League clubs have made great efforts in recent years to improve their stadiums a visit to the toilets usually shows just how far they have to go before they find themselves on a par with other entertainment outlets.

The transformation of run-down tracks into entertainment centres by Bord na gCon hasn't gone un-noticed by those who run Irish football and FAI chief executive John Delaney is a great admirer of what the greyhound industry has achieved.

Recently, during a wide-ranging interview, we talked about the state of stadiums within the Eircom League and it didn't take Delaney long to turn the conversation around to the Bord na gCon principle.

"They have invested hugely in greyhound racing and their attendances have jumped because it is more of a family day out. What we need is more of an infrastructural development programme based on technical criteria to ensure that we get the Eircom League grounds up to a certain standard that would attract more spectators."

There has been talk on the grapevine that the FAI is keen on persuading clubs, particularly in Dublin, to ground-share but Delaney says there has been nothing discussed officially within the game.

But he does have a strong opinion on whole infrastructural development programmes within the Eircom League.

"I think what we need to have are more grounds that are of a certain level of standard or requirement. If you look at Turner's Cross, it is now meeting certain criteria and I would love to see the back end of Turners Cross finished. I would love to see Athlone brought to a certain level. I would love to see the Shamrock Rovers stadium in Tallaght brought to a certain level.

"Longford and Buckley Park are two decent successes in terms of facilities and Terryland Park is now making a lot of progress. What we need now is more complete stadiums."

Delaney was speaking in advance of the recent announcement by Minister for Sport John O'Donoghue of €5.275 million to the 16 eircom League clubs is in addition to the €2m allocated from 2002 to St Patrick's Athletic and Dundalk which can now be drawn down.

But it is still going to take a long time for all 22 clubs to bring their stadiums up to the required.

So, ground sharing is now being mooted in an effort to speed up the refurbishment process and Delaney admits that it certainly has it merits in terms of getting things done quickly.

Asked whether it would be right to uproot clubs with long traditions of playing in a particular area, Delaney replied:

"To make the point, without referring to any specific clubs as to where they may or may not go, wouldn't it be far better to offer them a stadium, 100 per cent complete, that you would be very proud to play your matches in, than to have stadiums which are not complete.

"You are far better off using a stadium on a shared basis that meets all the criteria."

The traditionalist would certainly baulk at the prospect, but the message seems to be that if clubs don't get moving quickly on their ground development plans, they may find no other option available to them.

© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

I have long thought that this makes huge sense for Dublin clubs. The odd thing of course is that this is in the best interests of the clubs themselves. It would have to be done is such a way that grounds are owned by FAI or Council rather than one club beholding to another. But instead of Shels building in Donabate they could sell Tolka. Bohs and Shels both use Dalymount. The money from Tolka goes to build state of the art facilities in Dalymount. This could work just as well in reverse. :ball: This is done all around the world. It also wouldn't have to be ground share with another football club. There are a lot of rugby clubs on the southside with valuable tracts of land who may like to share a state of the art facility with e.g. St Pats in return for Pats financing its construciton from proceeds from Inchicore.

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Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

I have long thought that this makes huge sense for Dublin clubs. The odd thing of course is that this is in the best interests of the clubs themselves. It would have to be done is such a way that grounds are owned by FAI or Council rather than one club beholding to another. But instead of Shels building in Donabate they could sell Tolka. Bohs and Shels both use Dalymount. The money from Tolka goes to build state of the art facilities in Dalymount. This could work just as well in reverse. :ball: This is done all around the world. It also wouldn't have to be ground share with another football club. There are a lot of rugby clubs on the southside with valuable tracts of land who may like to share a state of the art facility with e.g. St Pats in return for Pats financing its construciton from proceeds from Inchicore.

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The notion that this should apply to Dublin clubs in particular is based on a peculiar blindness to demographics that seems to operate in this country. Dublin stadia are no less individually viable, and in fact much more so, than stadia in Longford or Athlone or Sligo, by dint of the fact that the greater Dublin area, for better or worse, comprises well over a quarter of the population.
Having Shels and Bohs share Dalymount might seem a good solution on paper, but that is the first step towards the Cork solution. In this scenario, we 'Dublin Whatever' fans will be found crowing on foot.ie about our fantastic achievements and attendances, blissfully unaware that what we are actually representing is the failure of several bona fide clubs. That might work for Cork, which can be argued is still a single viable entity. But no one is going to give real loyalty to a pan-Dublin outfit.
The final destination of this plan would be to close stadia in Dublin, because their support is relatively small, while subventing those in provincial centres where the support is not small, but tiny. So please don't come on here and ask Bohemian FC to share a ground and, more importantly, a hinterland, with a club from Ringsend, or vice versa, unless you are also prepared to share with the next club up the road.

PS: as mentioned already by another contributor on the Bohs MB, the solution to the financial problems of EL clubs is not fewer stadia. The solution is much simpler: it is fair funding from philistine Irish governments which have thrown money at horses and dogs and GAA without a whisper of protest from the FAI.

Given the building costs in Dublin i think ground sharing is a viable option. It works in other countries so why not here? A north side & a south side stadium would be the best option. Something like 7m has gone into Tallaght & not even paid for 1 stand. Outsdie Dublin that would build 2 stadiums.

Clubs outside Dublin should be sharing their facilities with the local junior leagues.

This country is too small & not enough money to go around to fund big stadiums for all.

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Originally Posted by Ringo

Grounds for sharing set to gather momentum

Wednesday August 3rd 2005

© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

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Who wrote that piece ??? .... cant trust half the stuff you read in that rag ... no research, mostly heresay, totally obvious biased attitude, no balance what so ever ..... take everything with a grain of salt.

I'm afraid its just pr for the current FAI policy which has already been conveyed informally to clubs here

the fai are deliberately stalling on grants (in some cases grants already "ANNOUNCED") unless clubs groundshare - they have told dublin clubs they "stand a better chance" getting the money if they groundshare

fcking gangsters

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Originally Posted by A face

Who wrote that piece ??? .... cant trust half the stuff you read in that rag ... no research, mostly heresay, totally obvious biased attitude, no balance what so ever ..... take everything with a grain of salt.

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Am I missing something? It's an interview with Delaney ... :confused:

The only possible groundshare is Bohs/Shels no? Or possibly Shamrock Rovers/Pat's? Bohs will certainly not be leaving Dalymount with a trustfund in place, the Jody and plans in conjunction with the new shopping centre. Shamrock Rovers are obviously going to Tallaght eventually, with the financial situation stabilised and the council taking over the building. That leaves Pat's who appear to have a plan in place for Richmond but nothing started yet, I think. Then there is Shels who are expressing a desire to move but seem to have their own plans too. Obviously UCD are staying in the campus, be it our current ground or the rugby one. Dublin City appear to be heading back to Whitehall.

Where is the potential for groundhsaring? Attendences are low enough without two clubs totally overlapping their own catchment areas. Dublin contains a vast amount of the country's population and clubs should be spreading out if possible, not coming together in one area. It's ok for the Milanese or Roman clubs for example as they have massive international appeal but our clubs don't even have national appeal, they work mainly on the local scale.

Seeing as City don't own the Cross, they could always groundshare with the Ramblers at St Colmans and help do the place up ;) :D

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Originally Posted by wws

I'm afraid its just pr for the current FAI policy which has already been conveyed informally to clubs here

the fai are deliberately stalling on grants (in some cases grants already "ANNOUNCED") unless clubs groundshare - they have told dublin clubs they "stand a better chance" getting the money if they groundshare

fcking gangsters

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Have you heard this wws or is it a conspiracy theory?

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

Am I missing something? It's an interview with Delaney ... :confused:

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No ... i was kinda generalising. I was speed reading it to bo honest and didn't notice the "quote" for JD .... then again, they have been known to quote stuff that was never said at all. I hate the indo reporting on anything to do with the eL .... they always make a hash of it.

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Seeing as City don't own the Cross, they could always groundshare with the Ramblers at St Colmans and help do the place up ;) :D

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City effectively share the ground with the local junior leagues i.e. MFA

Without City the MFA wouldn't get any of the grants its got or the 150k+ City contribute in rent.

Ground sharing won't , believe me we've been there. its just too hard to fit the fixtures around two teams. Luckly were going back to Whitehall :D

Such nonsense! This is not anti-Dub Boh Diddley, the reason it makes sense for Dublin clubs is because of proximity. If there were two clubs in Cork city it would make much more sense for them to share than develop separate grounds (I know the MFA own the Cross). It would also make sense in a city like Limerick, Galway or Waterford. However, there aren't two clubs in those cities so ground sharing is irrelevant.

This is not about amalgamating clubs - it is about the sharing of facilities. There are clubs in Dublin sitting on very valuable property when they are scraping to get by. The don't have the money to develop the facilities they have (at least not quickly enough). It isn't very difficult to understand that concentrating resources would mean development of top class facilities and possibly higher attendances.

Did you ever consider that the reason Dublin clubs don't draw larger crowds is because the facilities are sh1te. And how long will they stay sh1te if clubs all work independently and compete for scarce FAI/Government grants. Even that doesn't work because instead of putting €1m into one stadium it has to be shared between two grounds and development is as a result slower.

If the FAI are using grants to put pressure on clubs here I say fair play. Some times it takes someone to point out the obvious when clubs are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

And I don't think this will solve all the problems in the El (in Dublin in particular) - but that has been used as a reason to do nothing for too long. It won't fix everything but it makes financial sense and the clubs themselves would benefit. They should take advantage of the fact that they live in a large city.

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

PS: as mentioned already by another contributor on the Bohs MB, the solution to the financial problems of EL clubs is not fewer stadia. The solution is much simpler: it is fair funding from philistine Irish governments which have thrown money at horses and dogs and GAA without a whisper of protest from the FAI.

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Are you a farmer? Yeah, its the government's fault. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

Are you a farmer? Yeah, its the government's fault. :rolleyes:

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Wish I was. I forgot to mention them too.
http://www.unison.ie/ -- Larry Goodman gets €10,000 a week in farm handouts.

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Originally Posted by monutdfc

Have you heard this wws or is it a conspiracy theory?

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I've heard it from a club secretary. He offered this out, unpromted, at a recent meeting of pats patrons, two weeks later this article mysteriously appears in the paper as Delaney and the FAI 'musing' over the possibilities.....its a little too coincidental in timing for my liking....I've no doubt that this de facto the new grant policy.....basically dublin clubs will get nothing significant/have grants withheld at the whim of the fai if they dont fall in line......

Do they insist on any particular ground shares or leave that to the clubs themselves? Any pressure on Pat's particularly?

I''m now using conjecture rather than anything they said but it appears to my mind they want future applications to the Grants scheme to be weighted in favour of ground shares - they dont give a **** who or where - the policy seems straightforward and probably goes something like this - " why have 4 grants to 4 dublin clubs so they can only bit part improve their grounds when we can award 2 grants to two sharers and have 2 fully finished grounds"

thats my guess of whats happening based on what I heard relayed to the clubs behind the scenes and what Delaney is now saying publicly

i can only see ground sharing working with a few clubs but it would make sense to have a really proper stadium than 2 crap ones. It all depends on the size of the stadium and how many clubs are going to ground share.

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Originally Posted by wws

" why have 4 grants to 4 dublin clubs so they can only bit part improve their grounds when we can award 2 grants to two sharers and have 2 fully finished grounds"

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Sounds very sensible. And that does not mean the total grant given to Dublin based clubs goes down - just that it is concentrated. No need for two architects fees, no need for two planning applications etc etc