Fact: Albania is the best team that Kerr's side has beaten

Fact: Albania is the best team that Kerr's side has beaten in a competitive match. Stated like that it look grim. All these freindlies that only we take seriously are deluding us.

Is Kerr capable of sending out a team that is going to play with concentration and focus and energy for 90 minutes? His teams have looked vapid at times, leaderless, hesitant. The France match was good but too much of the rest is like I haven't seen in a long long time.

There are rumours of the squad being unhappy ( Fanning in the Indo ) - probably just paper talk but still.

My plea to Kerr is to drop all the Wegner-type crap and just let's go balls-to-the-wall for 90 minutes, our players like players in Premiership teams play best at high tempo.

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Originally Posted by Qwerty

Albania is the best team that Kerr's side has beaten in a competitive match

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I disagree, I think Cyprus are better than Albania ;) :D

Forgetting away matches as we have never been able to win away matches, the only 2 teams we've played at home have been Israel and Russia. Any other day we would have beaten Israel so that doesn't count. :)

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Forgetting away matches as we have never been able to win away matches, the only 2 teams we've played at home have been Israel and Russia. Any other day we would have beaten Israel so that doesn't count. :)

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Tell that to UEFA.

Kerrs results in friendlys should be ignored, in fact his treatment of friendlys really písses me off. He treats them like competitive matches when the opposition clearly do not. The result is we get meaningless wins, the disadvantage is he can't get a look at youngsters or fringe players and come the proper games we can't play them as apparently they lack experience at this level.

I'd rather see us lose and one, just one, player who's not a regular started really stake a claim than see us win against some disinterested, experimenting side at home.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

There are so many negative people on here it irritates the hell out of me.
I hope we stuff Cyprus and get at least four points out of the two home games against France and Switzerland and then all you eL fans with chips on both shoulders can go take your problem with Brian Kerr out somewhere else.
Get behind the team FFS. :mad:

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What has EL fans got to do with anything? Funny, as on boards around a week ago someone accused EL fans of blind bias to Kerr as he's 'one of our own'.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

It just seems to me that every time I read a negative comment on here about Ireland and Kerr it eminates from an EL fan.
We have three massive matches coming up and we need a bit of unity to get us through it.
Big deal that Albania is the best team Kerr's team have beaten. I didn't see Brazil pulling out of any tackles when they came to LR or Portugal not trying.
I just hope we put together three competitive wins in a row, top the group and get some serious preparation work done for summer 2006.
(But I'm probably alone here in hoping that).

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The original poster wasn't an EL fan :confused:

Fact is, many people here are EL fans, so obviously you'll see plenty having a go at Kerr. On Boards the EL fans are a minority and there's probably more anti Kerr feeling on there.

In fact the only other criticism of Kerr in this thread is from me and is soley about taking friendlys too seriously and them basically being a waste of time :confused:

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Fair enough, I wasn't having a go - I would just love to see 100% of the people on here 100% behind the team and Kerr.

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But you'll never get that on any internet forum for any football team. Just because people are having a go at Kerr doesn't mean they're not 100% behind the team or wouldn't love to see us in Germany. There's always going to be differences of opinion here, that's the whole point, it doesn't mean everyones not behind the team.

Croatia, Yugoslavia and Holland are the only (at least) half decent teams that we beat in a competitive in McCarthy's 6 year reign. Heads up lads. :)

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Ireland, Holland, Ukraine, Portugal, Italy, Poland, Spain, Croatia. What do we have in common?

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I give up !! what ?

yeah our capabilty of putting away weaker opposition away from home is shockingly bad. I think its all down to our weak/fragile mentality

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Fair enough, I wasn't having a go - I would just love to see 100% of the people on here 100% behind the team and Kerr.
By the way . . . something that REALLY irritated me before the Israel match in Dublin was people like 'rgumentative' signing on here and causing trouble.
These people contribute nothing to foot.ie

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I am not an eL 'fan' in that I don't pay to see games and I'm not living in Ireland. I am 100% behind Kerr. I am 100% behind the team. Does that mean I can't ask questions and raise concerns or ruminate? Or do you prefer not to see reality and delude yourself in thinking that Ireland has played to even 90% of it potential under BK?

I thought Brian Kerr was the right guy for the job but so far the team performances have left a lot of doubt in my mind and I'm not alone. I want them to win the 3 remaining games but there are things that are wrong with the current setup, it's not just bad luck. We know the score, we're a goal down and entering the final quarter.

I want them to turn it around, and as arm-chair managers it is our duty to tell Brain Kerr how to do his job :D Given the crop of talent we have right now if we do not at least finish second in the group the Brian should resign. Other than the away game against France he couldn't really put much else down on his CV from the last few years.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I give up !! what ?

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top of groups. Wasn't meant as a brain teaser, just a head lifter. :)

Just read that Indo article...Nothig new same ol crap..........We scrapped past Albania too...Another cracker for the Doc....Look things are seriously gonna change if we don't get a win from either the French or the Swiss and no amount of friendly wins is ganna change that. I agree with the previous posters saying they wished we experimented more in friendlie...Then Kerr might not have felt like Elliot was a 'risk' however I feel that was just an excuse to hide the fact that he ****ed up big styly...Anyhoo we have a few months to put our glum faces away for this will be but a memory when we face the French.........

I read the Indo article too.

I hate this smoke & mirrors "rumours of unhappiness in the squad" stuff.

If there's a problem in the squad say so Mr Fanning & Mr Doyle & whoever else is suggesting it, otherwise put it to rest.

What might the squad be unhappy about anyway? Not being allowed to roll over police car bonnets at 5am before a qualifier? Not being allowed to bunk off to the pub when Roy Keane has gone to bed while they're on holidays, sorry, World Cup Finals preparation?

Another fact :

only 13 irish youngsters signed for british clubs last year compared to 40 a decade ago :eek:

Irelands U-20's failed to qualify for the summers World Youth Championships while the U-17's failed to reach the European Championships. :eek:

Is Ireland a team in decline ?

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Originally Posted by onenilgameover

Then Kerr might not have felt like Elliot was a 'risk' however I feel that was just an excuse to hide the fact that he ****ed up big styly

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I've said this about 100 times now. Elliott was not getting his game for Sunderland. He had not started any of their last 6 games and he was also very ineffective against Celtic. Duff had played up front twice for Kerr before (Georgia, Russia), he scored in both times and was our best player in both times. Whether it was the wrong substitution in hindsight he's certainly not making excuses and I really, really doubt it lost us the game.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Another fact :

only 13 irish youngsters signed for british clubs last year compared to 40 a decade ago :eek:

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With the new rules on how many non-nationals can play for your club, along with the improvement in the EL, this isn't really too surprising

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Irelands U-20's failed to qualify for the summers World Youth Championships while the U-17's failed to reach the European Championships. :eek:

Is Ireland a team in decline ?

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Or did we overachieve under Brian Kerr at underage level? Look at the number of talented younsters making their mark at senior level over in England at the moment - Stack (well before the court case), McCarthy, Elliott, Flood, McGeady, O'Brien, Kelly. Yeates is highly rated by Jol.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I've said this about 100 times now. Elliott was not getting his game for Sunderland. He had not started any of their last 6 games and he was also very ineffective against Celtic. Duff had played up front twice for Kerr before (Georgia, Russia), he scored in both times and was our best player in both times. Whether it was the wrong substitution in hindsight he's certainly not making excuses and I really, really doubt it lost us the game.

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Was Kerr not watching for the many times Duff played up front under Mick? Two good games, or imo, one good game and one goal v Russia, does not excuse an awful, awful substitution. Duff is a poor striker and always has been, Elliot is a better striker.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Elliot is a better striker.

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If Elliott came on and played like he did in the first half agains the Faroes or even against Celtic he would have been less effective than Duff was in his 30 minutes up front.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

If Elliott came on and played like he did in the first half agains the Faroes or even against Celtic he would have been less effective than Duff was in his 30 minutes up front.

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As I pointed out last week. Its not a comparison between Duff and Elliot up front against Israel, it was taking Duff out of midfield where he was double marked that caused the problem. It released the Israelis to push forward and score twice.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I read the Indo article too.

I hate this smoke & mirrors "rumours of unhappiness in the squad" stuff.

If there's a problem in the squad say so Mr Fanning & Mr Doyle & whoever else is suggesting it, otherwise put it to rest.

What might the squad be unhappy about anyway? Not being allowed to roll over police car bonnets at 5am before a qualifier? Not being allowed to bunk off to the pub when Roy Keane has gone to bed while they're on holidays, sorry, World Cup Finals preparation?

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Seriously doubt there is a problem. Fanning just has a problem with Kerr because he doesnt have the managerial pedigree of the likes of the mighty David O'Leary or someone :rolleyes: .

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Fanning is an arsehole.

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Completely agree. The only journalists I have a lot of respect for are pro-Kerr so that is all that matters to me. :)

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

If Elliott came on and played like he did in the first half agains the Faroes or even against Celtic he would have been less effective than Duff was in his 30 minutes up front.

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I disagree, you can't be less effective than completley ineffective, and we could have kept Duff in his best position then. I'd rather one woeful striker and Duff on the wing than Duff up front and anyone else in mid field.

Kilbane did more than Duff out on the left anyway. He did well out there. Duff could only pass it short. I agree, it was a bad substitution but people are going a bit overboard.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Kilbane did more than Duff out on the left anyway. He did well out there. Duff could only pass it short. I agree, it was a bad substitution but people are going a bit overboard.

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Yes but Duff out there was creating space for the rest of his team by his very presence.

Maybe people are going overboard but it was a poor sub and everyone could see it at the time, that Kerr couldn't is worrying.

I think we should judge Kerr when the group is finished. We are all having a go because of the Israel matches. We could hammer Franch, Swiss and Cypus and top the group and people will say what a manager. It is very surprising to see Kerr has 3 matches to save his job when you compare with how many years they gave Mick. This is Kerr's first full campain, and with 3 games to go we are top of the group with france and swiss to come to LD. Granted we could be in a better position but lets wait and see.

But who cares about friendlies?? Kerr takes them way to seriously. Giving McGeady 5 and 10 minutes here and there. He should be starting these matches and i hope he starts against italy.

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Originally Posted by Irish Pride

I think we should judge Kerr when the group is finished. We are all having a go because of the Israel matches. We could hammer Franch, Swiss and Cypus and top the group and people will say what a manager. It is very surprising to see Kerr has 3 matches to save his job when you compare with how many years they gave Mick. This is Kerr's first full campain, and with 3 games to go we are top of the group with france and swiss to come to LD. Granted we could be in a better position but lets wait and see.

But who cares about friendlies?? Kerr takes them way to seriously. Giving McGeady 5 and 10 minutes here and there. He should be starting these matches and i hope he starts against italy.

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Agree 110% reserve judgment till we know our final position, but if were not in the top 2 at the end then major questions will arise.

Aye, we were expected to lose in Paris and should have lost in Basel. We could have been 6 points behind the top 2 after 3 matches. Luckily we're top of the group and I'm more confident than ever of winning our first WC qualifying group (I think).

I dont know if you were at the game eireboy but when he took Keane off for Kavanagh you could see the structure we had go out the window, they fell apart within minutes.. I seriously believe if keane had went off and nobody came on to replace him, leaving morrison alone up front and the midfield left as they were we would have got a result.. Too late now so lets hope we beat the French & Swiss. Which I believe we can.

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Originally Posted by Irish Pride

I think we should judge Kerr when the group is finished. We are all having a go because of the Israel matches. We could hammer Franch, Swiss and Cypus and top the group. It is very surprising to see Kerr has 3 matches to save his job when you compare with how many years they gave Mick. Granted we could be in a better position but lets wait and see.

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Well, we had the chance to hammer Israel twice, couldn't do it, and dropped 4 crucial points. France and Switzerland are better sides than Israel, so we won't hammer them. Kerr has 3 matches to save his job, because this Irish team is, (when they play like they can), the best we have ever had. Unfortunately, the team play within themselves most of the time, don't score enough goals, switch off when leading, can't defend when required, and collapse under pressure. All Kerr's mumbo-jumbo about the opposition being world-beaters (even part-timers) doesn't help. His substitutions are poor, and badly-timed. His tactics are (mostly) negative. He refuses to learn from his mistakes. It's not an opinion made up on-the-spot, because he has played against decent teams 5 times during his reign, and has dropped 10 points. As head coach, the results are his responsibility, and should we fail to quailfy for the World Cup, it will be ultimately his fault.

Winning what amounted to no more than an end-of-season runout against the hapless Faroe Islands is merely a smokescreen, which will
fade fairly fast when real teams like France and Switzerland get stuck into our fragile defence in the autumn. You don't qualify/fail for the World Cup in the last match, you win/lose it over the campaign. 4 teams are trying to qualify from our group, but they can't all qualify. Those 4 points dropped against one of our qualifying rivals from winning positions, may prove to be the ones that cost us qualification.

Failure to qualify will get Kerr the sack, Keane, Cunningham, and several others into immediate International retirement, and a team left coachless, leaderless, and a weakened squad in total disarray, resigned to playing disinterested opponents in meaningless home friendlies, before the qualifiers for Austria and Switzerland begin next year.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Well, we had the chance to hammer Israel twice, couldn't do it, and dropped 4 crucial points. France and Switzerland are better sides than Israel, so we won't hammer them.

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How do you know Switzerland are better than Israel? I'd say they're both definitely on par.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Well, we had the chance to hammer Israel twice, couldn't do it, and dropped 4 crucial points. France and Switzerland are better sides than Israel, so we won't hammer them. Kerr has 3 matches to save his job, because this Irish team is, (when they play like they can), the best we have ever had. Unfortunately, the team play within themselves most of the time, don't score enough goals, switch off when leading, can't defend when required, and collapse under pressure. All Kerr's mumbo-jumbo about the opposition being world-beaters (even part-timers) doesn't help. His substitutions are poor, and badly-timed. His tactics are (mostly) negative. He refuses to learn from his mistakes. It's not an opinion made up on-the-spot, because he has played against decent teams 5 times during his reign, and has dropped 10 points. As head coach, the results are his responsibility, and should we fail to quailfy for the World Cup, it will be ultimately his fault.

Winning what amounted to no more than an end-of-season runout against the hapless Faroe Islands is merely a smokescreen, which will
fade fairly fast when real teams like France and Switzerland get stuck into our fragile defence in the autumn. You don't qualify/fail for the World Cup in the last match, you win/lose it over the campaign. 4 teams are trying to qualify from our group, but they can't all qualify. Those 4 points dropped against one of our qualifying rivals from winning positions, may prove to be the ones that cost us qualification.

Failure to qualify will get Kerr the sack, Keane, Cunningham, and several others into immediate International retirement, and a team left coachless, leaderless, and a weakened squad in total disarray, resigned to playing disinterested opponents in meaningless home friendlies, before the qualifiers for Austria and Switzerland begin next year.

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Jaysus, we might as well all give up now so, and save ourselves from further embarassment!

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Originally Posted by mypost

the best we have ever had..

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I fail to see where you draw this conclusion from, they are nowhere near the best side we've ever had - and in fact I agree with the Liam Brady view that we simply dont have enough top quality players at the end of the day. Face facts - we've a fairly **** crop of players at the moment - our best - Duff is not the sort that "carries" a team on his own and but for the fact that a bit part second choice striker (Clinton) saved our bacon with a couple of goals (while playing above himself) we'd be well out by now. We're in with a shout with two home games - and given the medicroity of most of our squad at international level and the less than overwhelming return of Roy Keane thats something to be thankful for I'd venture.

We have a good core to the team: Keane x2, Duff and Given. Some reasonable Premiership players in Finnan, Carr, Kilbane and Cunningham so we have the basis of a solid if not world beating side but due to our size we'll never have 11 quality players in all positions.

The fact is that on paper we're stronger than Israel and Switzerland but we haven't beaten them but France is stronger than all 3 and they haven't performed either. We've got 3 away draws against Swiss/France/Israel and drawn at home to Israel. I'd sooner be in our shoes than any of the others with the away draws in the bag. Kerr's competitive record doesn't point to us winning the home games but I'm confident we'll beat the Swiss. As regards the French, we'll need bags of aggression and a high tempo game and who knows. I fear he'll play Finnan on the right and play a holding game and settle for a pt. I hope not.

Fanning - he only sees one player on the pitch and is now starting on Kerr as he did on previous managers. He has an obsession with Houllier and is now comparing Kerr to him. Isn't it his daddy's paper he writes for ? His is only one opinion and he probably knows far less about football than many on here so forget about him.

In summary, it's too early to start on Kerr. We're top of the group and our fate is in our hands. We would nearly all have accepted this in advance for this stage of the group.

I couldnt call given world class. He NEVER saves ANY Peno's

Carr is overweight and crap these days

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

I think a back four of O'Shea, Cunningham, O'Brien and Kelly would do well against the Swiss.
Kelly is doing very well at Spurs and has a lot of Ireland caps coming his way in the future.

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No Finnan?

Jolly - Given is not world class because you never seen him save a peno? I've yet to see Duff score a peno, doesn't mean he's not world class. Actually, would you believe. My memory is probably playing games but the only time I remember seeing Duff take a peno was against Newcastle in pre-season friendly in Malaysia. He missed. Guess who saved it??? :D Given actually laughed at Duffer after he saved it.

http://www.nufc.com/html/2003-07-27c...sia-cup-a.html

given is one of the best keepers in english PL. but i dont think he really is world class like czech or cassicsas. Maybe he is world class but he defintely needs to work on the peno's

friendlies dont count

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

friendlies dont count

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hehe, why not? :) If you seen the disapointment of Duff's face you wouldn't be saying that, it was a pre-season tournament and it isn't easier for a keeper to save a peno in them.

Another:

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Newcastle's in-form keeper Shay Given pulled off an exceptional penalty save to help his side beat Derby and move joint top of the Premiership - for 24 hours at least.

Given had seen striker Alan Shearer give Newcastle the lead with a 30th minute penalty before facing a Derby spot-kick in the second-half.

Derby's Fabrizio Ravanelli picked himself up after being brought down by home defender Andy O'Brien to take the visitors' penalty.

But, even though Ravanelli produced a well-struck penalty, Given saved with a dive to his left to deny Derby an equaliser.

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He's no different than any other keeper.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

He's no different than any other keeper.

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At saving penos ?? No, he hopeless and one of the worst I've seen. But I agree that doesn't make him a poor keeper.

Perhaps "international class" might be better than "world class" when describing the players since obviously few if any would get on a World XI.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

At saving penos ?? No, he hopeless and one of the worst I've seen. But I agree that doesn't make him a poor keeper.

Perhaps "international class" might be better than "world class" when describing the players since obviously few if any would get on a World XI.

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Well there wouldnt be many that would have more than 2 in the world XI.. but given would certainly be in the top 10 in the world..maybe even top 5.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

No Finnan?

Jolly - Given is not world class because you never seen him save a peno? I've yet to see Duff score a peno, doesn't mean he's not world class. Actually, would you believe. My memory is probably playing games but the only time I remember seeing Duff take a peno was against Newcastle in pre-season friendly in Malaysia. He missed. Guess who saved it??? :D Given actually laughed at Duffer after he saved it.

http://www.nufc.com/html/2003-07-27c...sia-cup-a.html

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Lol, i remember watching the match. That is the corner Duff must go for when training with Given because their was a cheeky smile from Given. But that is the only Peno i remember him saving and i think he is horrible at saving them but that doesnt mean he is not a top class keeper. I rate Given up there with the best in Europe.....but if he stays on his line for a few seconds longer hi might save a few.lol.