Miller and Oshea ?

Whats the story with these two lads.. Started out careers well but now both of them seem to be afraid of the ball.. anything miller gets the ball he looks scared and passes it quickly a lot of the time losing the ball.. oshea has gone from looking a very competent player to one of the most casual players i have ever seen .. he wont get stuck into a tackle and casually plays the ball around the back.. one of the worst passers of the ball in the irish team imo .. dont like to say this but would rather have ian harte against the french or kilbane at left back than oshea

Both need first team football, and almost certainly way from United.

When I saw Fulham vs Celtic nearly 2 yrs ago Miller couldn't get enough of the ball.

At Celtic he didn't have much to prove - he was accepted very quickly so he played with confidence. He has a huge task to get accepted at MUFC & he hasn't a chance without playing regularly in important games.

"This guy can be as good as he wants to be - there's no limit" is what the usually dead-pan Henrik Larsson raved about him.

O'Shea needs to play week in / week out too. Every time he takes to the pitch for MUFC he must be thinking "I've got to impress here or I'm out again next week" which can only wear away his confidence. What position does he play? Does he even know?

I think the way the PL is going with the contenders needing to win virtually every game there's no room left for squad rotation or experimenting with youngsters. Ferguson is predisposed to giving youth its chance but I think competitive pressure is forcing him to do this a lot less.The window in which fringe players have to impress is much shorter now.

Chelsea's apparent dominance will drag Arsenal & MUFC up with them, away from the pack. This will be bad for Irish / British youngsters in my opinion, except for the almost elite few that are good enough to stay in (Duff, Terry, Lampard etc.). Look at Scott Parker and, sadly, some of our lads.

People like Doyle & Murphy staying in Ireland for as long as possible before moving abroad is welcome in my opinion. From my limited knowledge because I now live in London, the eircom League is stronger than ever and this can only enhance the credibility of young players who stand out.

Both Miller & O'Shea still have potentially bright futures in my green-tinted opinion.

O'Shea definately has what it take to be a massive player. Central midfield is his best position in my opinion and I would love to see Kerr give him a shot there.

Miller in my opinion is not good enough, he is division 1 standard at best. I would be delighted if he was to prove me wrong though.

I'd have more hope for Miller than O'Shea but hopefully the both do well.

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carnstien O'Shea definately has what it take to be a massive player. Central midfield is his best position in my opinion and I would love to see Kerr give him a shot there.

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Please tell me what you see in this guy and what he does at present to back up your statement.I know that i have very little positive to say about josh likewise your opinion on Kilbane, Harte and Holland.These guys although nothing special have contributed much more to the Ireland cause than Mr 'O Shea.Apart from his build he shows very little as he can't defend,pass the ball and is very chicken like when it comes to the tackle.I also think that Miller has more potential to be a success but away from Manu.

I think O'Shea's biggest problem is that Fergie seems to be intent on turning him into Phil Neville II. A jack of all trades master of none utility player. And as a result I think it's knocked his confidence.

As for Miller, he probably should've stayed at Celtic. He could've been a regular first teamer by now.

B.

just read a rumour that Miller could be on his way to Derby County!! the day he signed for man utd i knew it was a huge mistake. he has gone so far backwards in the last 12 months. what a waste

miller is a flop at man utd. even at press interviews he is way beyond his depth. he has to find a new club. somewhere in the EPL if possible or the championship where his ability lies.

as for josh. dont be another G.NEville. Smith is going to be the next roy and i cant see josh partnering him in the centre. Needs to move to another club before the start of the season, he cant go the the WC with zero matches under his belt

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Originally Posted by BaZmO*

I think O'Shea's biggest problem is that Fergie seems to be intent on turning him into Phil Neville II. A jack of all trades master of none utility player. And as a result I think it's knocked his confidence

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Bazmo, good to see I am not the only one who thinks this. I posted this last October: After early promise eighteen months/two years ago, he has just not progressed. I fear if he stays at MU he will turn into another Phil Neville, a decent enough utility player, who can fill in several positions but not good enough to be first choice in one regular position. Ferguson has played him left back, centre back, midfield. What is his best position? I don't think even he knows.

its a pity ferguson doesnt have confidence in o shea i would be thinking if i was o shea about a move unless he wants to be their second choice left back , second choice right back , fourth choice central defender and third choice defensive midfielder all rolled into one.

O'Shea is definitely a mystery .. nutmegging Figo, the drag back and shot off the cross bar for Scholes goal against Newcastle Utd in the 6-2 win a few years back.. destroying Arsenal a couple of yearas ago before having to go off at half time, which turned the game back to Arsenal .. even his finish against Arsenal last season .. he definitely has talent to burn. And then of course in contrast his display in the first game in Basle when he looked a bag of nerves.

His passing seems to be quite poor .. so think he is playing out of position in centre midfield and as a full back. In any case, he sees himself as a centre back. With Cunnigham and Dunne injured he might yet play against the French as centre back. If he played well, it might kick start his Ireland career there.

As for Miller .. he seems quite small for centre midfield .. he was given a few chances to establish himself at ManU .. still think he might come good. I'd be more inclined to go with the opinion of Larsson and Keane. As someone already said, he is a confidence player. Don't understand though why he has not been loaned to build his confidence up .. perhaps no interest, or Fergie sees him as part of his plans for this season.

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Originally Posted by macdermesser

.. still think he might come good. I'd be more inclined to go with the opinion of Larsson and Keane. As someone already said, he is a confidence player. Don't understand though why he has not been loaned to build his confidence up .. perhaps no interest, or Fergie sees him as part of his plans for this season.

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Yeah, remember Larsson saying there's no limit as to how could Miller could be? And Larsson rarely got drawn into making any excitable remarks. I've no doubt Keane had some baring on his move too.

What a bad move though, but it's happened now. I hope the Derby Co. rumour isn't true. He's a hell of a better player than people like Lee Hendrie though. A good manager, someone like David Moyes, could probably do wonders with someone like Miller.

Part of the problem is that with the pace that Chelsea & Arsenal have set in the last two years, Ferguson just can't experiment with his fringe players like he used to. 4 or 5 years ago Miller would have had much more of a chance to break through. He only really impressed me once for MUFC - in the Carling Cup win over Arsenal this year. All the press slated his performance against Fenerbahce(?) away in the CL this year. It made miserable reading.

As for O'Shea: I'm not sure Cunningham will still be injured in September but if he is, and with Dunne out, I'd really fear for O'Shea at centre half given his performance level against Israel. I'm not convinced his passing is that bad - I think it's more of a case that it's bad from left back, which is understandable for a right-footer. I'd actually drop him altogether until he gets his act together again.

But I've seen enough in both players to think there's still a chance they'll deliver. Then again, I also think Seltic can win 6-0 tonight!

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'm not convinced his passing is that bad - I think it's more of a case that it's bad from left back, which is understandable for a right-footer.

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good point .. never thought about that

Does anyone know if Miller has played much of the preseason friendlies for Man U? I know he scored in one not too long ago. This time last year he was starting uniteds first game of the season against Chelsea, now he seems a million miles away from the team. Remember watchin him in their game against exeter last year and he looked terrible.
theres no doubt he has talent, I just hope he doesnt go the same way as McPhail. Its surprising how quiet keane has gone about him seeing as he played a large part in him coming to united in the first place.
As for O'Shea, theres no doubt he has talent, made a few silly mistakes last year, thought his passing in the Israel game was very poor. Having said that united are rumoured to be selling Phil Neville, so O'Shea is there to stay.

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Originally Posted by elroy

Does anyone know if Miller has played much of the preseason friendlies for Man U?

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No as far as I'm aware he only started the Clyde game and wasn't even given a chance as a substitute in any of united's games in the far east. He needs a move quick but possibly not to Derby County. A s**t premiership team would suit him better such as West Brom or someone.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

A s**t premiership team would suit him better such as West Brom or someone.

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I'm not sure WBA would suit his style & they'll be battling against the drop again.

But who could use a player like Miller?

Put another way, would he be of use to the following?

Villa (he's better than Lee Hendrie)
Everton (he has CL experience)
Birmingham (Bruce is fed up with David Dunne)
Sunderland (ah sure he's Irish :))
Portsmouth (I've absolutely no idea how Perrin likes to play football & who is in midfield)
West Ham (definitely a West Ham style player)
Fulham

From what I remember of seeing of Miller in his early games for Manure he was played in a completely different role to the one he was used to at Celtic. Ferguson had him sitting deep and moving the ball on to the wings, kind of link up job and he didn't really look confident. Whereas in Scotland he was used further forward, where he was the type of player who would break through and score goals.

Most people who had seen Miller on a regular basis at Celtic would say that if he really wanted to move he should wait another season and get regular first team football so that he could develop in an environment that would force him to take responsiblity on the pitch, sadly for whatever reason him and his agent felt different.

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

From what I remember of seeing of Miller in his early games for Manure he was played in a completely different role to the one he was used to at Celtic. Ferguson had him sitting deep and moving the ball on to the wings, kind of link up job and he didn't really look confident. Whereas in Scotland he was used further forward, where he was the type of player who would break through and score goals.

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same here, the limited amount of highlights i'd seen from him were of him attacking from wide and also getting well forward through the middle, and from what i remember, ferguson compared him to mcclair when he first arrived (perhaps trying to avoid inevitable "new keano" comparisons)

Derby??

If he is to leave United on loan I'd imagine there'll be a good few Premiership teams in for him. The sad truth is there just isn't that many good midfielders available so any one of the middle to lower tier teams will take a chance as there's little risk involved. I know Sunderland are in dire need of Midfielders. That at least would be better than Derby

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Originally Posted by elroy

Having said that united are rumoured to be selling Phil Neville, so O'Shea is there to stay.

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It'll be worse if he stays and takes over the "too good for the reserves, not good enough for the starting 11" role currently occupied by the Neviller

Miller scored last night in a friendly against Wrexham.. but I think making the squad will be an achievement for him at this point. Won't be starting the first game of the season, like last season against Chelsea. Fingers crossed for him though.