Letter to the FAI (re Saturday)

Have sent the following letter to the FAI via mail and email :-


I'm writing this letter to register my utmost disgust at the events on saturday evening,both inside and outside Landsdowne Road.
I was seated in the North Terrace as I am for each home game and what I witnessed and heard was shocking and shameful and to all effects,made me ashamed to be a Irish Football Supporter.
On Saturday, before the game I was standing outside Murrays pub , on the footpath ,less than 50 yards from the barrier entrances and was standing with 10 or 12 fellow fans and I witnessed the following

1. Two people wearing the Official Ireland Supporters Club polo shirts throw pints of beer (at least I hope it was beer) at passing Isreal fans
2. A level of abuse I have never ever seen at a Irish Football match was being directed at the Isreal fans as they went past.

Inside the ground was even worse where the level of abuse being rained on the away fans was unbelievable.And this was all still pre-game so the inevitable

1.People singing songs about Hitler
2.People openly making racist (anti Jewish ) comments in full earshot of both the Gardai and Stewards
3.People openly making Nazi salutes at the away fans.Again this was being done in full few of the stewards and Gardai as we (some decent supporters who were there for the football match) brought this to their attention
4.Bottles of softdrinks being thrown on the pitch in the direction of the Isreal goalkeeper

These actions ,coupled with what happened outside the ground ,has disgusted me and has made me ashamed to call myself a supporter of the same team as these cowards
Some months ago,the world watched in shock by the scenes we witnessed in the Bernabao stadium when Madrid fans openly saluted in Nazi fashion.Ohhh how we condemned them , and now we have the exact same situation in our own back yard and theres not been a murmur from the media

Last November,a anti FAI protest organised by football fans,where placards and flyers ,which were to be distributed outside the ground and were planned to be held up as Milo Corcoran took to the field,had their cards confiscated after The FAI instructed stewards to remove the cards or anyone using them.Why then, was the same thing not done to people distributing Palestinian placards ,which were there for one reason only which was to incite trouble?
Why were fans that were making these Gestures inside the stadium not ejected,despite both Gardai and stewards being made aware of this ?
After the events in City Centre Dublin earlier in the Afternoon, why was there not more stewards or Gardai positioned outside the ground where fans were congregating?

Last saturday night ,apart from the two points we dropped ,we also lost the title of the best supporters in the world

I have also sent this letter to the Irish Independant,The Irish Times,The Daily Star and Newstalk 106.I have promised each that I will also supply them with any reply's you send back,should you deem my letter worthy of such a action


Yours

Redgav

sorry - put this in the wrong forum ,meant to put it in the Ireland one

A bit OTT imo - FAI can't control what a very small minority of supporters chant or do at a match.

Though I do like the point about the red cards been confiscated and not the palestinain flags - if you had've based your letter solely on that I'd be 100% behind it

Also, the red card thing was in protest of John Delaney more so than Milo, as Milo doesn't really have any power behind the green door. He's just a figure head.

I did like your comment about the FAI stewards removing (forcibly) the red cards yet it was all ok for the Palestinian flags. The difference here is that John Man Utd Delaney wasn't being booed or red carded.

Red card protest for the stewards so? :D I actually didnt see any trouble, but then again, I was too busy flogging the Genesis Reorter

I don't agree with giving ourselves a bad name by publicing minor stuff that a handful of people do

But as I said, spot on with the red cards protest comparison :eek:

OTT.

I was outside Murrays before the game and didn't see or hear too much going on.
I sat in the East stand and didn't see or hear one Zieg Heil nor did I hear any anti Jewish songs or slurs. There were a few Palestinian flags which fans are entitled to carry if they wish.

I don't dispute you saw what you saw - but your comparison to the Bernabeau where 75%+ where acting in this manner is rediculous.

Redgav, you've obviously got your bee in a bonnet about this, either that or a very unhealthy knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time ;)

Redgav -

Good letter and well worded.

I too was in the East Upper and I heard NO racist chants, admittedly one or two of us muttered under our breaths, jewish fcuker at the keeper but no more than you normally would if he were German, Dutch or whatever and certainky not in a racist way.

Correct me if im wrong but is the North Terrace not where all the eircom League fans are ?

If so, was it them who were chanting this stuff. Some of them do not have great reputations. If so they should not get tickets in future.

I was in Ringsend drinking for a good two hours before the game and witnessed NOTHING. Likewise after the game as both sets of fans walked out, I heard nothing.

Dont write to the FAI maybe you should write to the Gardai. Racism is against the law and why didnt they do anything.

PS I am not saying it didnt happen, but that I didnt see it or hear it.

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Originally Posted by Junior

OTT.

I was outside Murrays before the game and didn't see or hear too much going on.
I sat in the East stand and didn't see or hear one Zieg Heil nor did I hear any anti Jewish songs or slurs. There were a few Palestinian flags which fans are entitled to carry if they wish.

I don't dispute you saw what you saw - but your comparison to the Bernabeau where 75%+ where acting in this manner is rediculous.

Redgav, you've obviously got your bee in a bonnet about this, either that or a very unhealthy knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time ;)

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Totally agree with you Junior. I was outside the Lansdowne and I didn't see anything at all.

Way OTT!!

At best I'd say about 20 fans were acting like this (though I saw none). Silvio and 19 of his mates. Sending that letter off to the media is sooo wrong.

I was outside Murray's before the game and I saw the incident Gav refers to.
A bunch of Israeli fans we're walking towards the Havelock square entrance singing (bizarrely) "we love you Ireland, we do" when someone threw a plastic cup of beer at them.

I heard/saw at least two people shout "murderers" at them. The Israeli's walked away but there was a bit of a scuffle as some Irish fans took offence to this and the incident was brought to a Garda's attention.

In the ground I heard that people were giving Nazi salutes, though I only saw one person, wearing a Bray wanderers jersey doing this.

I think the intelligence level of the people involved can be summed up in these two observations:

• The idiot behind me who called the Israeli's "Nazi Scum"

• The idiot at the end, so drunk he started chanting 'Pakistan' instead of 'Palestine'

RedGav's comments aren't OTT, from the booing of Ranger's players, through some of the scuffles many of us witnessed in Paris to the antics of last saturday, we are quickly heading down a route that makes a joke of the self-proclaimed "best fans in the World".

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Correct me if im wrong but is the North Terrace not where all the eircom League fans are ?

If so, was it them who were chanting this stuff. Some of them do not have great reputations. If so they should not get tickets in future.
.

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I was in the North stand and didn't hear any rasist chanting at all.. Saw a bit of abuse before the match on the way to the ground but no more than would be expected to be given to any opposition by a few low life scum, who insist in causing trouble..
By a few I mean 3 or 4 no more..
Maybe I just missed it all but from what I saw on the day it has been blown out of proportion now!!

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Correct me if im wrong but is the North Terrace not where all the eircom League fans are ?

If so, was it them who were chanting this stuff. Some of them do not have great reputations. If so they should not get tickets in future.

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Yes North Terrace is partially (maybe 1/3 to 1/4) made up of eL fans. I heard was some nazi salutes but didn't see any myself. Stewards & Gardai seemed to be watching with interest but didn't see them cart anyone out.

If 2 guys in Official Ireland Supporters Club polo shirts are abusing away supporters I don't see how can blame eL fans. If was eL fans doing this i'm sure redgav would have recognised...

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Originally Posted by tiktok

I was outside Murray's before the game and I saw the incident Gav refers to.
A bunch of Israeli fans we're walking towards the Havelock square entrance singing (bizarrely) "we love you Ireland, we do" when someone threw a plastic cup of beer at them.

I heard/saw at least two people shout "murderers" at them. The Israeli's walked away but there was a bit of a scuffle as some Irish fans took offence to this and the incident was brought to a Garda's attention.

In the ground I heard that people were giving Nazi salutes, though I only saw one person, wearing a Bray wanderers jersey doing this.

I think the intelligence level of the people involved can be summed up in these two observations:

• The idiot behind me who called the Israeli's "Nazi Scum"

• The idiot at the end, so drunk he started chanting 'Pakistan' instead of 'Palestine'

RedGav's comments aren't OTT, from the booing of Ranger's players, through some of the scuffles many of us witnessed in Paris to the antics of last saturday, we are quickly heading down a route that makes a joke of the self-proclaimed "best fans in the World".

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I didn't see any scuffles in paris, where did this happen and for what reason????

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Originally Posted by tiktok

The idiot at the end, so drunk he started chanting 'Pakistan' instead of 'Palestine'

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Only a drunken Irishman :rolleyes: :D

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Originally Posted by magic moments

I didn't see any scuffles in paris, where did this happen and for what reason????

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Outside O'sullivans very late into the night\morning..
There were bottles thrown into the crowd by french boys after being harassed and one of them beaten up by a group of young Irish so called 'fans'... :D ;)

Tiktok, it is over the top.

Sending that letter to media gives us all a bad name and ye know how the media like putting a twist on things.

I saw the incident outside murrays too, some people booed the israelis, most cheered them, 2 drunkan chaps in Ireland supporters club polo shirts gave them grief, 1 beer thrown at them, a couple comments directed to them.

In fairness lads its not anywhere near some of the stuff i have seen abroad. Get a grip ffs.

I was sitting in the upper west stand, people around me were waving palestinian flags, a couple made gestures to the israelis, some shouted comments towards them. My mates were in the north terrce, told me of all the going on's there, seemed to be no different to the west upper ie nothing to write home about and they actually had a laugh about it (and they also had a few pints with israelis after the match who were spot on).

Get a grip lads, you were at a football match where there will always be slagging between supporters.

Don't blow it out of proportion ffs - sometimes i wonder :rolleyes: .

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Originally Posted by Cosmo

Tiktok, it is over the top.

Sending that letter to media gives us all a bad name and ye know how the media like putting a twist on things.

I saw the incident outside murrays too, some people booed the israelis, most cheered them, 2 drunkan chaps in Ireland supporters club polo shirts gave them grief, 1 beer thrown at them, a couple comments directed to them.

In fairness lads its not anywhere near some of the stuff i have seen abroad. Get a grip ffs.

I was sitting in the upper west stand, people around me were waving palestinian flags, a couple made gestures to the israelis, some shouted comments towards them. My mates were in the north terrce, told me of all the going on's there, seemed to be no different to the west upper ie nothing to write home about and they actually had a laugh about it (and they also had a few pints with israelis after the match who were spot on).

Get a grip lads, you were at a football match where there will always be slagging between supporters.

Don't blow it out of proportion ffs - sometimes i wonder :rolleyes: .

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Agree with you 100% i was at the match and it wasn't that bad

I think people are blowing it up because it was Israel.

If it were Dutch fans we were slagging, you know oranje fcukers, havin a laugh etc it would not be a problem. Or calling the Germans - Huns.

PS I said oranje and not orange as its meant as light hearted banter. You have to be careful what you say around here :)

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Originally Posted by Eire06

Outside O'sullivans very late into the night\morning..
There were bottles thrown into the crowd by french boys after being harassed and one of them beaten up by a group of young Irish so called 'fans'... :D ;)

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Ok thanks for that info, i was drinking in kiity o sheas after the game never did make it to OSullivans!!!

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Originally Posted by Cosmo

Tiktok, it is over the top.

Sending that letter to media gives us all a bad name and ye know how the media like putting a twist on things..

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That's where we'll have to disagree Cosmo.

To my mind, it's not the letter, but the actions of those described in the letter that gives us a bad name.

I won't gloss over people in the crowd giving Nazi salutes, IMO that goes well beyond 'banter' e.g. the 'Where's your foreskin gone?' chants were banter and lighthearted

Regardless of what I'm sure are sincerely held views, I too think the letter is way, way, way over the top. I was at the match and saw nothing to get het up about (apart from the goalkeeper).

How many nazi salutes did ye see again?

10? 20?

Like if i say that i saw 20 people at the match questioning the goalkeepers sexuality should i write in a letter to the national papers too saying so that the irish newpapers can run a story saying that irish football supporters are homophobic :D

Only winding ye up with above comment but come on, it wasn't that bad, get over it, - im sure you saw worse at a cork city match. Nobody got phsically hurt (unlike when we visited the cross earlier this season ;) ).

Blown out of proportion lads, forget about it, move on

Way, Way, Way Over The Top!

>1.People singing songs about Hitler
>2.People openly making racist (anti Jewish ) comments in full earshot of both >the Gardai and Stewards
>3.People openly making Nazi salutes at the away fans.Again this was being >done in full few of the stewards and Gardai as we (some decent supporters >who were there for the football match) brought this to their attention
>4.Bottles of softdrinks being thrown on the pitch in the direction of the Isreal >goalkeeper

I saw or heard none of the above. No supporter that I have spoken to since Saturday saw or heard anything like the above. If you saw this then who are we to argue? Yet, you impugn the good reputation of Irish fans due to the actions of a mere *handful* of mindful idiots. Sending a letter to the FAI regarding this is to be applauded and commended. Let them take the necessary action. If they don't, then follow it up with contacting the media.

However, your decision to copy the letter to the daily newspapers now is beyond belief! Some of them - probably the Independent (and it's stable mate The Evening Herald) would have a field day and the resultant publicity would tarnish the reputation of the many thousands of loyal and decent supporters.

BTW - one bit of advice Redgav. It is not a good idea to send a letter to the FAI and, more especially, the media containing lots of spelling mistakes. It makes you look stupid!

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Originally Posted by republic

I saw or heard none of the above. No supporter that I have spoken to since Saturday saw or heard anything like the above. If you saw this then who are we to argue?

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I didn't hear anyone singing songs about Hitler, but I and those around me at the game, Row 7/8/9/ in Block N06 would have witnessed the Nazi salutes and racist remarks.

Loads of people saw the idiots outside Murray's.

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Originally Posted by republic

.......the resultant publicity would tarnish the reputation of the many thousands of loyal and decent supporters.

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Again, it's the actions described rather than the description that tarnishes our reputation. But I guess since it was only 'a minority' we can pretend it didn't happen :rolleyes:

I did hear some racist abuse around me - quite a lot actually in the West Lower where I was seated. I did not hear racist chanting or see Nazi signs. In 15 years of going to Ireland game i can't remember the level of racist comments and abuse being thrown at the opposition as I heard on Saturday with the exception of the england games possibly.

i think the letter to the FAI was the right thing to do. It's a pity you didn't have details of seat numbers and sections as the FAI could have taken action against ticket holders who were involved.

I'm not sure if I would have gotten the media involved myself but that's probably as I'm not well spoken enough to convey my point as I would like. I did see incidents inside and outside the ground that disgusted me and I've been told by others that nazi signs where witnessed.

I think it would be wrong to let this pass just because it's a minority of Irish fans. I know many a decent english fan who has had his good name ruined by a minority and the more the minority get away with it the more idiots who join in and it grows and grows

We need to put a stop to this kind of behaviour NOW. :)

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Originally Posted by tiktok

That's where we'll have to disagree Cosmo.

To my mind, it's not the letter, but the actions of those described in the letter that gives us a bad name.

I won't gloss over people in the crowd giving Nazi salutes, IMO that goes well beyond 'banter' e.g. the 'Where's your foreskin gone?' chants were banter and lighthearted

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You said as much yourself, you saw 2-3 people causing a bit of aggro outside, and the odd idiot inside. In a crowd of 34k? The letter is OTT.

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Originally Posted by republic

Way, Way, Way Over The Top!

>1.People singing songs about Hitler
>2.People openly making racist (anti Jewish ) comments in full earshot of both >the Gardai and Stewards
>3.People openly making Nazi salutes at the away fans.Again this was being >done in full few of the stewards and Gardai as we (some decent supporters >who were there for the football match) brought this to their attention
>4.Bottles of softdrinks being thrown on the pitch in the direction of the Isreal >goalkeeper

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I was on the North Terrace and saw and heard people doing the nazi salute and singing hiitler was right. These guys about 4 in total ( in a group of about 20) were in full earshot of the at least 2 stewards. One of the stewards had a word and a guard came over to them and told them to "watch the game or else get out". This seemed to sort them out although a few of them were later thrown out for what appeared to be drinking at the game rather than anything else.
I can only say what I saw and can't comment on if it was widespread throughout the ground or just confined to sections of the North Terrace.

Basically these idiots involved need to be outed, we do not need or want them in our fan base. If they cannot behave or represent their country in an appropiate fashion ie decent manners and respectfully, they should go and support England, they'll find plenty of likeminded thugs amongst their fanbase. These 'fans' are obviously not interested in supporting Ireland, they are just interested in winding up the opposition in the wrong way, fair enough banter and a laugh, but nothing racist and offensive such as this behaviour.

Can they not put themselves in their shoes, how would they like to be treated like this if they are at an away game? I am just thankful that the Israeli fans were quite calm and did not react, I could imagine any other country and there would have been huge retaliation. So, plan is, any further behaviour or anyone who knows of anyone involved in any of this, out them!They need to be removed from the fan base, we don't want to be associated with their caveman antics.... :mad:

I also was at the game & would like to add my voice to the idea that this was actions carried out by the few rather than the whole. Heard one or two dodgy comments but when you're wound up so bad like we were by that keeper that is to be expected.

Some people on these site seem determined to run us all down all the time, why bother going to the games if you get upset that easily. Come on the boys tonight!!

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Originally Posted by redgav

Have sent the following letter to the FAI via mail and email :-


I'm writing this letter to register my utmost disgust at the events on saturday evening,both inside and outside Landsdowne Road.
I was seated in the North Terrace as I am for each home game and what I witnessed and heard was shocking and shameful and to all effects,made me ashamed to be a Irish Football Supporter.
On Saturday, before the game I was standing outside Murrays pub , on the footpath ,less than 50 yards from the barrier entrances and was standing with 10 or 12 fellow fans and I witnessed the following

1. Two people wearing the Official Ireland Supporters Club polo shirts throw pints of beer (at least I hope it was beer) at passing Isreal fans
2. A level of abuse I have never ever seen at a Irish Football match was being directed at the Isreal fans as they went past.

Inside the ground was even worse where the level of abuse being rained on the away fans was unbelievable.And this was all still pre-game so the inevitable

1.People singing songs about Hitler
2.People openly making racist (anti Jewish ) comments in full earshot of both the Gardai and Stewards
3.People openly making Nazi salutes at the away fans.Again this was being done in full few of the stewards and Gardai as we (some decent supporters who were there for the football match) brought this to their attention
4.Bottles of softdrinks being thrown on the pitch in the direction of the Isreal goalkeeper

These actions ,coupled with what happened outside the ground ,has disgusted me and has made me ashamed to call myself a supporter of the same team as these cowards
Some months ago,the world watched in shock by the scenes we witnessed in the Bernabao stadium when Madrid fans openly saluted in Nazi fashion.Ohhh how we condemned them , and now we have the exact same situation in our own back yard and theres not been a murmur from the media

Last November,a anti FAI protest organised by football fans,where placards and flyers ,which were to be distributed outside the ground and were planned to be held up as Milo Corcoran took to the field,had their cards confiscated after The FAI instructed stewards to remove the cards or anyone using them.Why then, was the same thing not done to people distributing Palestinian placards ,which were there for one reason only which was to incite trouble?
Why were fans that were making these Gestures inside the stadium not ejected,despite both Gardai and stewards being made aware of this ?
After the events in City Centre Dublin earlier in the Afternoon, why was there not more stewards or Gardai positioned outside the ground where fans were congregating?

Last saturday night ,apart from the two points we dropped ,we also lost the title of the best supporters in the world

I have also sent this letter to the Irish Independant,The Irish Times,The Daily Star and Newstalk 106.I have promised each that I will also supply them with any reply's you send back,should you deem my letter worthy of such a action


Yours

Redgav

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let it drop you saddo, have you nothing better to do with your time than lower the reputation of irish soccer and their supporters by going over the top on what a minority of irish supporters did after a few too many drinks. your behaving like a total idiot, i read your posts on other threads and accepted many of the valid point that you made but here you are merely displaying a complete lack of sense in attempting to raise the profile of a very small problem that occured as a real one off due to the cheating of israeli players and a possible political side to the coin in relation to palestine. how about u go out, have a few pints and chill yourself

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Originally Posted by Robinski

Also, the red card thing was in protest of John Delaney more so than Milo, as Milo doesn't really have any power behind the green door. He's just a figure head.

I did like your comment about the FAI stewards removing (forcibly) the red cards yet it was all ok for the Palestinian flags. The difference here is that John Man Utd Delaney wasn't being booed or red carded.

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Long time no see Robinski! Yeah fair play to you...don't think that was harshly written...glad you gave the the red cards a mention. Embarassing scenes on Sat. Glad you did something

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Originally Posted by livehead1

let it drop you saddo, have you nothing better to do with your time than lower the reputation of irish soccer and their supporters by going over the top on what a minority of irish supporters did after a few too many drinks. your behaving like a total idiot, i read your posts on other threads and accepted many of the valid point that you made but here you are merely displaying a complete lack of sense in attempting to raise the profile of a very small problem that occured as a real one off due to the cheating of israeli players and a possible political side to the coin in relation to palestine. how about u go out, have a few pints and chill yourself

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Yeah ye let it drpo and these scumbags take our good name and reputation and **** on it. At least this guy was embarrassed enough as an Irishman do do something about it. All good, no harm in reporting scenes of this nature then we have nothing to be ashamed of.

I saw the couple of idiots at Murrays too, but I heard and saw nothing in the ground at all. Sure, there were doubtless a few idiots around, but that's what the stewards are for.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

I saw some of the trouble outside Murrays. I didn't see any nazi salutes. I saw the drink being thrown. But either way, what I saw took place bfore the game and certainly had nothing to do with the subsequent cheating...

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you miss my point, wat i was saying is that if we would have won that game 5-0 nearly all the irish fans would have gone home happy and not with the attitute of stereotyping israelis as cheats and looking for any method by which to irritate them

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Originally Posted by livehead1

you miss my point, wat i was saying is that if we would have won that game 5-0 nearly all the irish fans would have gone home happy and not with the attitute of stereotyping israelis as cheats and looking for any method by which to irritate them

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.....and you're missing everyone else's point.
A lot of what has been described took place before the match, and inside the ground most of it started long before the israeli goalkeeper starting his antics.

I shouted 'Cheat' at Dudu and repeatedly booed him after he started acting the prat, but surely you can see the difference between that and someone giving a Nazi salute :confused:

I fully agree with the letter. I wasn't at the game but I have ready many of the reports on it. I don't know if it is being blown out of proportion or not but the crucial point is that this DID happen.
This kind of **** should not be allowed to creep in to Irish soccer. It must be stamped on immediatly and not tolerated for a second.
So what if we lose the (self-proclaimed) title of worlds best fans, if we want the title then we should win it back by getting rid of these a**holes from the Irish fanbase.