Will the eircom League always .....

... lose out because we have guys like Don Givens, Eoin Hand, Pat Devlin and Pat Dolan to fly the flag for us ??

Guys who have no faith in the league and will sell us out at the first chance they get because they want a cut out of a few deals themselves ??

Or is it just that we'll suffer because they want a few quid and we'll never have a chance to progress ??

I mean .... come on, lets face it these guys were always second rate and were never in the full picture to be fair ..... they just dont have the caliber that is needed for Irish football .... the will just continue to commit crimes as long as they have the positions they have !!!

I mean are unaccomplished sniveling low-life self serving snakes good for the domestic game ??

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Originally Posted by A face

I mean are unaccomplished sniveling low-life self serving snakes good for the domestic game ??

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Face, have you ever heard the term "leading question"?

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Face, have you ever heard the term "leading question"?

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he sounds like Bill O'Reilly.

"Mr Dolan, which formerly terrible disgusting "usa to osama bin laden" league was your back-stabbing sham of a scouting mission beneficial too? id call that being unamerican*

*this part (c) Fox News 2001

I don't think its fair to include Eoin Hand in there A Face, he does a lot of good work for young guys who have come back. Hard to disagree with the rest though

I'd throw Brian Kerr into the mix aswell

On the agent side of things Pat Devlin can be included.....

However he has done a really good job here as a manager and it shows that the right man can make a small club succesful. :cool:

I think Pat Dolan has been fantastic for the league.
I dont think he has the best football brain around, but I think the work he did off the pitch in Cork and in St Pats was great. His enthusiasm is immense, and the think both Cork City and St Pats have beneftied greatly from having him in charge.

I have never been impressed with Eoin Hand. fair enough he helps players out when they come home. but in my view he should be stopping the problem at its root by creating systems that would ensure players wouldnt have to go over in the first place.

There is rightly question marks over Pat Devlins dual role as an agent and manager. However similarly to Pat Dolan i think he is doing a better job of enhancing the league in Bray, than anyone else would be able to do.

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Originally Posted by student

I dont think he has the best football brain around, but I think the work he did off the pitch in Cork and in St Pats was great. His enthusiasm is immense, and the think both Cork City and St Pats have beneftied greatly from having him in charge.

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One club nearly went bankrupt thanks to him, and the other has just lost two of its best players thanks to him- great work indeed :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Éanna

One club nearly went bankrupt thanks to him, and the other has just lost two of its best players thanks to him- great work indeed :rolleyes:

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Exactly ... one or two rights dont make up for all his wrongs .... he nearly crippled Pats, and team that were winning all round them to a team that were struggling to stay up last year. City had to get rid of him before he was able to do anyomre damage ... That is not a good way to leave a club for a supposedly great professional manager. Is there honestly any other club that would touch him here now ?? I dont think so without alot of thought and precaution anyway.

Pats are just starting to get right, financially wise.

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Originally Posted by A face

City had to get rid of him before he was able to do anyomre damage ...

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Mmm-funny, I wouldn't call a historical European run, 2nd in the league (unlucky not to win it), record crowds for the Club, unrecognisable development of the commercial side of the club and a general good feeling around the club damage.

Ye guys are slagging him off based on unconfirmed "events" of the last few days, not his tireless work over the last decade or so.

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Originally Posted by A face

Exactly ... one or two rights dont make up for all his wrongs .... he nearly crippled Pats, and team that were winning all round them to a team that were struggling to stay up last year. City had to get rid of him before he was able to do anyomre damage ... That is not a good way to leave a club for a supposedly great professional manager. Is there honestly any other club that would touch him here now ?? I dont think so without alot of thought and precaution anyway.

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Hang on a second.
1: It was under Eamonn Collins that Pats were financially crippled due to trying to implement a full time professional set up

2: Dolan left Cork in superb shape on and off the pitch. Rico is doing a great job down there but Dolan created that squad. Perhaps you would like to think back to how the club was left after Liam Murphy resigned.

3: Dolan managed Doyle at Pats and then brought him down to Cork. No one is more responsible for Doyle's progress in the game than Dolan.

4: There are a few clubs in the EL who i could see making a move for Dolan should there present managerial set up not work out. For example Limerick and Bohs.

By the way i just want to make it clear that i dont actually like Pat Dolan the person. i find him ignorant, arrogant and extremly irritating, however despite this i believe the EL has benefited from having Dolan in it

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Originally Posted by jofyisgod

Mmm-funny, I wouldn't call a historical European run, 2nd in the league (unlucky not to win it), record crowds for the Club, unrecognisable development of the commercial side of the club and a general good feeling around the club damage.

Ye guys are slagging him off based on unconfirmed "events" of the last few days, not his tireless work over the last decade or so.

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Hey ... i take that all on board and would be the first to say it was a great euro run etc. and to be fair anyone that knows me knew i was totally impressed with what was going on .... City turned a corner when there was alot happening for us ..... Summer soccer, ten team league, The TV deal crash in england and alot of players coming back to City, Youth system thriving at the club and staff there for it, Lennox out on his own and he then had the vision to sign Dolan .... brilliant stuff, loved it ... the press conference in the Evergreen ... totally impressed with him, and for the next two years .... now i dont know the full truth here and i could be wrong on it .... but Dolan, from what i could see was up to a few tricks (evident this week) and wheeling and dealing in the back ground.

The guy was playing his cards while everyone involved in the club at the time were willing to get behind him, he didn't 'play ball' and pushed the boat out and Lennox gave him the flick .... brilliant ... i would have been disappointed if he didn't, if the chairman unknowingly or even worse, knowingly left Dolan 'operate' in the background while it wasn't in the best interests of the club ... man you know my answer to that, no fúcking way .... Dolan made his bed .... and then gave out about it. Sorry mate .... g'luck ... your time here is done !!

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Originally Posted by A face

but Dolan, from what i could see was up to a few tricks (evident this week) and wheeling and dealing in the back ground. , if the chairman unknowingly or even worse, knowingly left Dolan 'operate' in the background while it wasn't in the best interests of the club ...

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if you're implying what i think you're implying, a face, you're on thin ice for a libel suit, and seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill by miscostruing what happened. dolan advises doyle to move to reading, therefore he was single handedly plotting the ruination of our club?

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Originally Posted by student

Hang on a second.

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I'm holding, i'm holding !! :p

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1: It was under Eamonn Collins that Pats were financially crippled due to trying to implement a full time professional set up

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You could be right ... but would it be closer to, Eamon Collins wasn't able to turn around the damage that was done ??
Again ... i could be wrong so might be worth listening to Pats fans here

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2: Dolan left Cork in superb shape on and off the pitch. Rico is doing a great job down there but Dolan created that squad. Perhaps you would like to think back to how the club was left after Liam Murphy resigned.

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Liam Murphy left us in brilliant form .... we had a great squad, Dolan added 2-3 players, Doyle included but left us with a load of un-used players and alot of guys went throught the books (unreal amount) ... coaching staff took a huge dent after Dolan, or at least during his time (if it wasn't him that effected it :o) alot of backroom staff have left during the time aswell (some quality people who we shouldn't have lost) .... i am not saying that Pat didn't have us in great shape, (although its not all his work to be fair) but there are other sides to coins too.

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3: Dolan managed Doyle at Pats and then brought him down to Cork. No one is more responsible for Doyle's progress in the game than Dolan.

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I'd say you have it spot on there !! ..... and a credit to him if true

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4: There are a few clubs in the EL who i could see making a move for Dolan should there present managerial set up not work out. For example Limerick and Bohs.

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I'd love to see him at Waterford, Limerick, Galway or Sligo .... i reckon the guy would do wonders there.

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By the way i just want to make it clear that i dont actually like Pat Dolan the person. i find him ignorant, arrogant and extremly irritating,

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I think the guy was alright ... approachable and easy to get on with, all though he was caught giving a bit of the drama/acting/obvious/naff display a few times which had a savage cringe factor ... but i would have over looked all of that.

He had lots of the 'passion' and 'pride' that he said everyone should have etc. .... fair play to him.

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however despite this i believe the EL has benefited from having Dolan in it

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Too right ... just not at City :D

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

if you're implying what i think you're implying, a face, you're on thin ice for a libel suit,

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I have avoided that .... infact i haven't said anything when you look at it, it is all my own opinion, from what i understood to be happening, all based on the events they way they occured etc. ..... i dont claim to have the inside track or have access to an all-knowing loop or anything .... it is just the way i saw things happen. I also made sure i didnt say anything .... a few tricks, wheeling and dealing ..... is there anyone amongst us would say otherwise ??
Hey ... it my opinion and i am entitled to have one !!

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and seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill by miscostruing what happened.

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I could be .... its just i'm abit ticked off over how things have panned out ... understandable i know ... but still ticked off anyway.

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dolan advises doyle to move to reading, therefore he was single handedly plotting the ruination of our club?

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Did he .... tells us more ??? :p

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Originally Posted by A face

Liam Murphy left us in brilliant form ....

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are you for real? we went about 6 months without scoring at home.

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we had a great squad, Dolan added 2-3 players, Doyle included but left us with a load of un-used players and alot of guys went throught the books (unreal amount)

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hits: derek coughlan, danny murphy, kevin doyle, joe gamble, liam kearney, neil fenn, roy o'donovan, shane long, michael nwankwo, steven o'flynn
misses (not including trials): rob hedderman

more importantly, dolan turned what was a collection of good players and journeymen being managed into the ground and turned them into the team that is now top of the league.

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... coaching staff took a huge dent after Dolan, or at least during his time (if it wasn't him that effected it :o) alot of backroom staff have left during the time aswell (some quality people who we shouldn't have lost)

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having heard from 2 of those coaching staff, it certainly wasnt dolan making their working position untenable

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.... i am not saying that Pat didn't have us in great shape, (although its not all his work to be fair) but there are other sides to coins too.

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im sure you'll apreciate this commentary then.

Hey Gav ... i just read your sig ... how can i argue with that man !! :D :p

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Originally Posted by A face

I have avoided that .... infact i haven't said anything when you look at it, it is all my own opinion, from what i understood to be happening, all based on the events they way they occured etc. ..... i dont claim to have the inside track or have access to an all-knowing loop or anything .... it is just the way i saw things happen. I also made sure i didnt say anything .... a few tricks, wheeling and dealing ..... is there anyone amongst us would say otherwise ??

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all im saying is that you seem to be suggesting dolan was abusing the club for his own benefit. i presume he knew he was going to be sacked then, eh?

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

i presume he knew he was going to be sacked then, eh?

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From what i heard at the time ... they were just short of turning on the bat light to try and get Dolan to a meeting with his employers ... he was on the missing list big time and not answering his phone etc. etc. etc. ..... he was AWOL and probably had put two and another number together and got the word 'sacked' ... he is meant to be very good at the game scrabble though !! :p

Again ..... i could be wrong !! :D

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Originally Posted by A face

From what i heard at the time ... they were just short of turning on the bat light to try and get Dolan to a meeting with his employers ... he was on the missing list big time and not answering his phone etc. etc. etc. ..... he was AWOL and probably had put two and another number together and got the word 'sacked' ... he is meant to be very good at the game scrabble though !! :p

Again ..... i could be wrong !! :D

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so you suggest the wheeling and dealing took place sometime this year, between say, to pick two arbitrary points in time, when i posted the news that if dolan and lennox didnt start communicating, one would go (and of course was shot down, thanks gary, who was being sensationalist now?), and the player's strike?

as far as i can make out the only wild theory ive heard on wheeling and dealing was that it was dolan who put the €117k clause in, 2 years ago, with a view to selling him to eamon dolan. when he'd be sacked. after 2 years. *cough*

what else was going on that i dont know about?

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

what else was going on that i dont know about?

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That is the 60 million dollar question ... what was he at ?? What offer was made to the club ? who else was involved ? no even just that ..... what else was he doing/saying/lining up .... i'd love to know but something tells me Citys interests weren't at heart and thats the point where i stop being a Dolan fan and support the club.

I am not saying that Dolans interests were self-serving, i am just saying that right now it looks as if there were !!

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Originally Posted by A face

That is the 60 million dollar question ... what was he at ?? What offer was made to the club ? who else was involved ? no even just that ..... what else was he doing/saying/lining up .... i'd love to know but something tells me Citys interests weren't at heart and thats the point where i stop being a Dolan fan and support the club.

I am not saying that Dolans interests were self-serving, i am just saying that right now it looks as if there were !!

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ah, the wallace takeover rumour.
didnt brian say recently he can only fund the club for another 2 years? will we plead for wallace to invest in our club then? or will we mourn days like when rico cost us €180,000 in one match with his tactics, when we lost our best player for pittance, when we paid our most popular manager in recent history to go away...

Can we change the title of the thread to "Was Pat Dolan good for Cork?" please? Coz thats were its at!!! About Pat, He's the kinda guy that will break his back to help any club in this league - as long as you pay him enough to go to the chiropractor and have some left over to enjoy himself. Pat Dolan loves nothing more than a wad of cash to splash, but in the greater scheme of things the guy has done alot for the league.

Keep this on topic folks. Enough Dolan threads around here...

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Originally Posted by pete

Keep this on topic folks. Enough Dolan threads around here...

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Sounds good to me !! :p

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

ah, the wallace takeover rumour.
didnt brian say recently he can only fund the club for another 2 years? will we plead for wallace to invest in our club then? or will we mourn days like when rico cost us €180,000 in one match with his tactics, when we lost our best player for pittance, when we paid our most popular manager in recent history to go away...

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Gav, you're talking a lot of sense in this thread and I can't argue with anything you've said and I don't think it's possible to dispute any of the points you've made.

However, there are some people around here who have short memories and will refuse to take your points on board. They'll eventually turn on Rico too and probably turn on Lennox at some stage. They seem to have no loyalty to people and no sense of gratitude.

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Originally Posted by Colm

Gav, you're talking a lot of sense in this thread and I can't argue with anything you've said and I don't think it's possible to dispute any of the points you've made.

However, there are some people around here who have short memories and will refuse to take your points on board. They'll eventually turn on Rico too and probably turn on Lennox at some stage. They seem to have no loyalty to people and no sense of gratitude.

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Well you would come out with something like that wouldn't you !! :p

Anyway .... can a MOD clean up this thread ... its gone way off topic !! :D

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Originally Posted by pete

Keep this on topic folks. Enough Dolan threads around here...

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a face set the topic quite clearly, he was accusing dolan of being bad for the league.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

a face set the topic quite clearly, he was accusing dolan of being bad for the league.

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Yeah .... him along with others for selling off the youth in the league for a fraction of the money they are worth. That was the topic of the thread. It was student that went off topic, not me ... i answered all those points with the intention of getting back to the more important topic ..... now Colm ("i dont talk about Dolan but have my tupence in every thread he is mentioned" :p) has turning up and i have to say .... i now am beinging to think if it will ever get back on track, them Dolanites are always out to mess everything up, pure destructive breed they are !! :D

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Originally Posted by A face

now Colm ("i dont talk about Dolan but have my tupence in every thread he is mentioned" :p) has turning up and i have to say .... i now am beinging to think if it will ever get back on track, them Dolanites are always out to mess everything up, pure destructive breed they are !! :D

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A face, anytime Dolan is mentioned recently it is only by people who want to have a cheap dig at him. Obviously then some of us are going to reply to this crap but ye are the ones who keep bringing him up time after time.

Why not just move on? Unfortunately Dolan is gone, Doyler is gone and Shane Long is gone. A lot of us aren't happy about things but as fans we should now be making it clear that we a stop to be put to this, starting with giving Georgie a new contract asap. Let's play out part and try and create a great atmosphere tomorrow and even more so in Galway on Friday, including plenty of contract for Georgie chants!

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Originally Posted by Colm

Why not just move on?

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So you are going to bury the hacket with everything so yeah, all is forgiven ..... the job .... good to hear it fella .... now we can get back to the serious stuff, footie !! :p

I dont think Dolan played as big a part in pats fortunes as he is blamed ofr, there were other factors in our decline one was a missing champions league place and monies due for winning the league/or not whichever.

The team suffered the follwing season due to that and i dont blame them, Collins stripped the club of players he didnt get on with (fcuk i would kill to have Crolly back playing for us)

Anyway Dolan did us well he won 2 league titles as a manager got 6k into richer on occasion and got the EL into the papers, granted he also played Marcus Hallows in real football matches but more often than not he managed the team well. He got people talking about the league and altho it went pear shaped for us he went to Cork and i dont blame him, his mentality was Cork had no other teams in the area (sorry cobh) and he got 10k into the grounds, as a football marketting thing it was a masterstroke.

Now thats gone pearhsaped too regardless of whether i like him or not he served the league well.


kdjac

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Originally Posted by Colm

Gav, you're talking a lot of sense in this thread and I can't argue with anything you've said and I don't think it's possible to dispute any of the points you've made.

However, there are some people around here who have short memories and will refuse to take your points on board. They'll eventually turn on Rico too and probably turn on Lennox at some stage. They seem to have no loyalty to people and no sense of gratitude.

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:rolleyes: Ever hear of blind loyalty. You're just looking ridiculous at this stage Colm, you really are

MODERATOR WARNING: Anymore Dolan discussion in THIS thread will be removed!

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Originally Posted by pete

MODERATOR WARNING: Anymore Dolan discussion in THIS thread will be removed!

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Who??

In regards to sending young players overseas, I have no problem with managers acting as scouts for clubs that are much bigger than any Irish club but why do these players then get sent to conference teams or lower division Belgian teams to gain playing experience. Surely there's a good opportunity to get these players back to Ireland to gain this experience which would then foster good links and make returning to Ireland the number one choice for players who don't "make it".

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Originally Posted by pete

MODERATOR WARNING: Anymore Dolan discussion in THIS thread will be removed!

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But Pete, that was the whole point of the thread wasn't it ? The wider points were just thrown in as a trojan horse surely ? The real title of the thread should have been "Dolan is a Ballcocks!", No ? :D

Anyway, Cork fans, Jesus, you've lost a player, get over it. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by TonyD

The real title of the thread should have been "Dolan is a Ballcocks!", No ? :D

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I think we already have a thread for that elsewhere.

Unfortunately i think the league will always be sold out by its own. Sure haven't we had 800 years of it.