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Since Derry City left the IL for the EL, does the city of Derry/Londonderry/Doire still have a club as well in the IL or in a lower (amateur based) Northern Irish league ?
*I used the term Doire in the topic title to prevend this thread turning into a nationalist vs unionist debate, hope we can keep politics from ruining this topic*
Yep, they are called Institue and play in the Irish Premier League.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
I know Institute are from county Derry, but are they really from the city of Londonderry/Derry ?
If so, what are their attendances and are they any popular in the city where DCFC seems to be the dominating team ?
i think they originally played in the waterside of the city when still an amateur team then about 6 years ago or more (guessing) they moved out to the YMCA place at Drumahoe, about 5 miles on the belfast side of the city.
they are a fairly small club but slowly progressing. small but tidy ground. average attendance maybe 2-300? a lot of them are younger fans.
That would be a massive average for a fairly small club. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by -lamb-
Is Institute the club Martin O'Neill left for Forest?
Nowhere near 2-3000 fans. Barely 1000 on a good day.
They play in Drumahoe, which is more or less part of the city these days.
They're not great by eL standards, a lot of ex-Derry City players playing for them.
http://www.institutefc.com/
Well Oxford United Stars play in the Division 2.
I think that was Distillery where he won one Irish Cup and played against Barca in the CWC. Even scored a goal against them I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
um, i said hundred not thousand. that's 2 of you who didn't read it right!Quote:
Originally Posted by brendy_éire
they are a fairly constant lower mid-table team, not great but reasonably competent.
as for "not great by eL standards"......ahem........i think the "eL is better" argument got shot down in flames by the setanta cup.
oh, and martin o'neill did indeed play for distillery before moving to england.
haven't they been doing fairly well this last few seasons? whereabouts in the city do they play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzy
My apologies. Poor eyesight. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by -lamb-
Guys
Gerry Anderson who works for BBC Radio in the North calls it Stroke City as in
Derry Stroke Londonderry. A point of information is that the name Londonderry which is incidentally no longer a valid name as the city council voted to call it Derry.. Londonderry East is the name of the COunty Constituency who returned that bloke with the glasses Gregory something for the DUP in the last election to Westminster.
not sure if this is right and don't want to start a big kerfuffle about it, but didn't the council only change THEIR name. i don't think they have the power to change the name of the city. so, officially it is still londonderry afaik (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong there)
i didn't want to use Stroke City in case people hadn't a clue what i meant but it suits me. i use that or l'derry myself ;)
This season was their first time in it. Not sure where they ended up in the league but. They play on th Buncrana Rd. at the sports complex in Derry.Quote:
Originally Posted by -lamb-
No kerfuffle necessary. As far as I know (and there are many better acquainted with the facts) the local council renamed itself Derry City Council in 1984. The official name of the city - at least according to it's Royal Charter (ahem) - remains as it has since Londonderry. FWIW, I like Gerry Anderson's take on it. You'll never please all of the people...
:ball: PP
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This from nationmaster.com:
The true name of the city of Derry or Londonderry (in Irish , Doire Cholm Chille or Doire), often called the Maiden City, is a city in Northern Ireland. The old walled city of Londonderry lies on the west bank of the River Foyle, but the city now covers both banks and is connected by two bridges. Derry or Londonderry, often called the Maiden City, is a city in Northern Ireland. The old walled city of Londonderry lies on the west bank of the River Foyle, but the city now covers both banks.
Although many unionists will call it Derry in casual conversation, they generally insist on calling it Londonderry during political discourse; the reverse is not true of nationalists. The most visible sign of this dispute to the visitor is in the road signage; those pointing to the town from within the Republic refer to it as "Derry", whilst across the border it is written as "Londonderry". It is not uncommon to see vandalised road signs - the "London" part of the name spray painted over on "Londonderry" road signs by nationalists, and occasionally added to "Derry" signs by unionists.
Irish nationalists, however, do not accept the change of name. The local authority is controlled by nationalist parties, and has officially changed its name to Derry City Council. The name of the city is still specified by its charter as Londonderry, and many unionists continue to call it Londonderry. The council has the power to apply to the The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is the British cabinet minister who has responsibility for the government of Northern Ireland. The office was created following the suspension, then abolition, of the home rule Parliament of Northern Ireland in 1972. The council has the right to ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to change the city's name officially, but has not done so.
A suggested compromise wording of "Derry/Londonderry" (read "Derry stroke Londonderry") has given rise to the ironic local usage "Stroke City". Gerry Anderson, a local radio presenter who espoused this term, became known briefly as "Gerry/Londongerry". Another locally-used method of partly circumventing this name problem is to write "L'derry" or "L-Derry".
The Council are in legal moves to get the name of the City officially changed to "Derry".
As for Stute, they would get 200-300 unless they are playing Linfield or Glens, when the away support would swell the crowd significantly.
They play on the Waterside, in the Drumahoe area which is on the very edge of the City as you come in the road from Belfast.
They are a friendly wee club and are managed by Pascal Vandequin(ex Derry, Rovers and Harps) and have a number of ex Derry players in their ranks.
It's not gonna happen. I believe it got the name London as a reward by Royal Charter. I don't think that can be reversed too easily. In fact I think that is the main reason it hasn't already been changed by now. However as previously mentioned the city council is officially Derry City Council. Also having been in Slovenia for quite sometime all Slovenian maps call it Londonderry and to any foreigners who happen to casually know of it they think it is called so too.
No disrespect intended here to you Poor student but why did you have to raise Slovenia in a thread about Derry? It is a sore point with Candystripes fans since they sank like the Teatanic when they played the Champions of that country some time ago :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Actually Teatanic were the sponsor. Maribor is the team, and indeed the name of the Derry poster in this thread. So they seek to remind themselves! Thankfully with corruption and mispending the 7 in a row champs are crumbling.Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
Exactly
Teatanic was an ice tea company and the travelling handful that went to the away league(including myself) ended up in being involved in a TV ad. That is a story for another day..........
Great trip that, involved all night drinking with neo nazis, attempting to charter a floating chinese restaurant for a cruise, getting stuck in a lift, Milo Corcoran, ski jumps and many another memories :D
As for sank- we lost 2-0 in the home leg after dominating the first half, and then 1-0 in the away league after hit the post three times. The same side beat Roma in the Champions League group stages a few years later
Poor Student - the name change will happen. The Council is mad keen on it (particularly Sinn Fein).Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
It hasn't happened previously, as the Town Clerk for most of the 1980's and 1990's had an incorrect assumption regarding the impact of the Council voting to rechange its name.
The Council has taken legal advice on the matter, which suggests/states that the City's legal name also changed when the Council changed its name. They've written to the DOE (Department for the Environment for Northern Ireland) about the issue 2 or 3 times now asking them to confirm their legal view that the city's name changed when the council's name changed, but they've yet to respond. The last such letter gave them a couple of weeks to respond, or the issue would go to court. They didn't respond - it's now going to court.
The change will happen....
Steve, I hope you are right and best of luck to them. But does the royal charter thingy not pose a problem?
Don't know to be honest, but wouldn't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
As far as I'm aware, Royal Charter grants city status - not a specific name. Anyways - I'd expect the current legal system would over-rule any ancient Royal Charters.
I spoke to the Mayor of Derry (a Sinn Feiner) about the whole name thing at an event in the City of London 2 weeks ago, and he said it would happen eventually. The City of London themselves (who funded the building of the City walls, and were the reason the town had the 'london' bit added to the front) apparently don't have a problem with the name change, as they see it as a legal issue. If changing the Council's name in '84 changed the city's name as well, then they're cool with that (which surprised me).
It didn't. Royal Charters need specific Acts of Parliament (or in exceptional cases, Secretary of State-sanctioned Orders) in order to be amended or repealed. This is more than a matter of legal process, I'm afraid. Given the 45 specific pieces of primary legislation in the recent Queen's Speech, there won't be any time in the next session to deal with it, even if a Private Member's Bill is introduced to speed things up. I smell trouble ahead... and that's without the intercession of Ross, Campbell and co.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
:ball: PP
We'll just have to see what happens PP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
Derry City Council and their legal representatives claim to have their done their homework on this one, so that's good enough for me until they're told otherwise in a court of law.
Anyways - I think you may be confusing 2 issues here. Are Royal charters not just to grant city status upon a settlement anyway - rather than deal with the actual name of that settlement ? Does the name of a place in the UK require an Act of Parliament - e.g. was there one for new towns like Milton Keynes, Telford and Cumbernauld ? There may well have been, but I'd be surprised.
As for Ross, Campbell et co - they will have no real say in this issue. The council is making the valid point that having multiple names for a town is damaging to its ability to promote itself internationally, rather than it being a political issue. If the city therefore should have only one name, it makes sense to go with the one used by pretty much all its citizens - on both sides of the divide. If worst came to worst the Council could decide to push for a Referendum on the issue anyway, which would take a while to happen and would be very divisive but would have a very predictable result....
Fair enough Steve. On reflection, I shouldn't wonder that it's just a matter of making an Order, which the Secretary of State is empowered to do by the standard terms of such charters. About 2,000 Orders are laid before Parliament every year for their sanction (making it an everyday Parliamentary procedure), so I expect your confidence is justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
No. Royal Charters pre-date the modern Parliamentary structure and as such still retain quasi-legislative standing. As I understand it, there will need to be formal revocation of the terms of the standing charter (and the issuing of a new Supplemental Charter), but that's easy enough to do using the statutory process I outlined above.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
The names of new settlements in the UK are now generally (although not always) determined by the relevant local authority under bye-laws, or devolved powers. Thus Telford was only a last-minute name change as I understand it; the town having been known as Dawley New Town (catchy moniker, huh?) all through the planning process. Thus no need for Battenberg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha involvement.
:) PP
In the absence of them- or any unionist fans from the Maiden City- expressing an opinion on this thread, let me second guess if I may.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Unionists will likely say that
a) the legal and related actions up to a referendum are a silly waste of local taxpayers' money, and
b) they'll continue to make a point of calling it Londonderry- presumably not the intention of most local nationalists, including you personally.
En route to Austria v NI, later this season, I'll fly into Bratislava airport. The bus will soon be heading down Pressburgerstrasse after crossing the border into German-speaking Austrian suburbs, and meantime I expect to see plenty of references to Poszony- the city was part of Hungary up to the end of WW1.
If the Mitteleuropeans can manage three different names, I'm sure youse can get by with two :)
Well Brussel/ Bruxelles is the capital of the EU Dunc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
maribor were called pivovarna lasko in domestic competition, but teatanic in european competition for some reason. pivorvarna lasko is lasko brewery, a beer company. afaik they went with the ice tea sponsor in europe for some reasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
and whyu the referrence to "german-speaking suburbs of austria"?all austrians speak german
The Slovenian clubs are not supposed to be called by their domestic sponsor names in Europe. Also I don't think alcohol sponsorship is allowed in European competition. I remember when Shelbourne played Olimpija Ljubljana (who incidentally died two days ago) the papers here were calling them Vega Olimpija when they had even changed their sponsors from Vega to KD. Poor researching by the media (surprise surprise).Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
The sense made clear I was talking specifically about the suburbs of Bratislava, which is obviously mainly in Slovakia but has some suburbs just over the border.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
There are both Hungarian and Croat first language minorities in the Burgenland region between Vienna and the Slovak and Hungarian borders.
There's some Slovenian speaking regions in the South of Austria too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
I think this thread has become a tad historical/political :(
Still it is Ireland (Northern & Republic of) we are living in ;)
Could Liverpool change their name to Carlsberg FC for the UEFA cup next year? Also Amstel are one of the biggest sponsors of the Champions League. Its Cigarette ad's that are banned.
You're right actually. I was getting a bit mixed up. I think it is when you are playing in France it is banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Timer