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The obsession with 1992 will annoy Pineapple Stu, but here's a bit of filler from a football site desperate for content:
https://www.football365.com/news/pre...-keane-mcgrath
Would anyone argue the point? Townsend and Coleman seem reasonable choices, but there's competition. Kilbane, yay or nay?
Always good filler, but we have such little genuine competition for places that once you pick the nailed-ons (Given, Keanes x 2, Duff) or stretch it to include players who spent most of their careers before '92 (McGrath - all hail) there isn't an embarassment of riches in most places.
So, purely to be argumentative, here's an 'XI Better than their Caps Total Suggests' - injury-shortened careers, unlucky to have a better/preferred player ahead of them, just not in favour with the management, or the gods didn't smile on them somehow...
Dean Kiely Kevin Foley Andy O’Brien Damien Delaney Curtis Fleming Steven Reid Graham Kavanagh Keith Fahey Eddie McGoldrick Keith O’Neill Stephen Elliot
That's a great shout actually EG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Are we talking about Irish players in general since the dawn of the PL, or Irish players who played in the PL?
Seeing that Keith O'Neill wouldn't last 5 minutes
Keith O'NeillAndy Reid
and this
Curtis FlemingJim Beglin
I just took '92 as the start date from John83's opening post, and decided that my team would be players who played all or at least most of their career after this, and not necessarily PL players, though it ended up that most played there for some period. Go back pre-'92 to, say, the start of the Charlton era (I'd have very shaky knowledge pre-'86) and some interesting names jump out. Gerry Peyton, 33 caps - but over 15 years - kept a clean sheet against Liverpool as a teenager on his debut. He was probably better than a lot of our first choices before and after him. Mark Kelly - 4 caps by 20, who knows what he might have become but for injury. Liam O'Brien...
Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Fnarf fnarf! So, by my reckoning that takes you up to 20 minutes in both positions!
:D No contest really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Keith O'Neill would trip over his shoelace and break his leg on his first game after a 12 month recovery from previously running into a blade of grass.
Whereas Jim Beglin's promising career at the top level was destroyed by a late horror tackle.
Andy's intl career was cut short by ill favour.
I thought Reid's problem was a tight g-string when it would have been better to b flat....
Maybe he was thinking of Stephen Reid, who seemed liable to be injured by physiotherapy, much less football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
I did not extrapolate on which factor brought Andy into ill favour with Trap. But according to your criteria "just not in favour with the management", Andy wins hands down over Keef whether it be musical or football favour. Andy was never a factor after Monenegro, when he was last seen disconsolate on the touchline after Trap decided not to bring him on to win a game, when a draw satisfied Trap's ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Whereas Keith was eventually brought back to the team, all was forgiven for Keith and as a consequence of that decision we were left inconsolably brokenhearted on the fields of Macedonia.
Maybe Andy R should have learned to play Bella Ciao. It could have made all the difference - for him and for us... I was looking at my team and wondering if Paddy Kenny or Rory Delap merit inclusion. Stephen McPhail. I'm sure there are others too. Actually, I'm sure there's a flip team out there too - an XI who I can't believe won as many caps as they did!
GK: David Forde (23)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
RB:
CD: Paul McShane (31)
CD: Darren O'Dea (20)
LB: Stephen Ward (50)
RW: Aiden McGeady (92)
CM: Paul Green (20)
CM: Glen Whelan (84)
LW: Kevin Kilbane (110)
ST: Andy Keogh (30)
ST: Shane Long (80)
Subs:
Conor Sammon (9) (all in the same year!)
Alan O'Brien (5)
Obviously, all inclusions relative to their number of caps. I can't think of a decent right back, because we've been fairly blessed there with the likes of Finnan, Carr, Kelly, and Coleman in the time I've been watching Ireland.
I'd have Shane Duffy ahead of Dicky Dunne.
I'd have McAteer on the right instead of Duff and Duff on the left instead of Kilbane
I get the flip team idea but there is no argument with Jim Beglin - a class act v your Curtis Fleming - a good durable plodder. And Keith O'Neill after his appearance at Montenegro 1999 and previous form, would inspire the gravest apprehension in the bravest of souls. If in your opinion Andy Reid could not rate higher than the hapless Keith in the forgotten/neglected but talented players, then that will surely subtract from your football soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
You have to have Sammon in there over Long. Sammon was a dreadful footballer, no idea how he got 9 caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Long is 33 and has been deservedly playing for us for 13 years, with his goal ratio similar to Quinn's! Not to mention the Germany goal!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. For all his height and awkwardness, Sammon wasn't actually that good in the air. And was actually better on the deck. I remember him picking Robbie out for a couple of goals in friendlies and being pleasantly surprised by his awareness and assists.
But yes, not international standard unfortunately.
Beglin was a superb player, but gone before '92 which I took as the start date. Push the date back and I agree he's a shoe-in. Fleming was a solid pro without being anything special who could have wone more caps at a different time -an unlucky Stephen Ward prototype, maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Andy v Keith? Positional stuff. I always thought Andy was best centrally.* Mind you, both scored the same number of goals (4) - though Keith in just less than half the games... Discuss, with examples. (Sorry - I'm spending waaaay too much time reformattting exam papers to other assessment forms at the mo and cabin fever is beginning to set it...;))
*Drop McGoldrick, push Steven Reid right and play Andy at 10 in a 4411? Less down the flanks, but more creative in the middle?
Perhaps Alan Kelly in goal - heir-apparent to Packie in 1994, first-choice for the Euro 96 campaign, then Shay came on the scene and he ended up with only 34 caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
With the wealth of right-backs we had from the late 1980s to the mid 2000s, you could include any of Kelly (Stephen or Gary), Carr, Morris or Finnan, but the stand-out would probably be Premier League-winning Jeff Kenna with 27
Up front, surely Didsy over Stephen Elliott
Kelly and Finnan have over 50 caps and Carr over 40. Finnan and Carr born within a few months of each other in 76 and Kelly in 74. Three cracking footballers. You'd think that if any two of the three were not as good then any one of the three could have had over 100 caps.
I would say Finnan was my favourite but I would also say that, relative to talent, Carr under-achieved and Finnan over-achieved.
John Sheridan. With the Irish senior team for 7 years, played in two World Cups and was one of the most naturally gifted footballers available to us.
34 caps!!
Carr lost more than a year of his career to injury though
Given
Finnan
Dunne
McGrath
Irwin
McAteer
Keane
Hoolahan
Duff
Keane
Long
Not really sure about the Shane Long vs Niall Quinn, Long was so unplayable for a period of time, for example during Euro 2016, games against Germany, Scotland, Poland en route. Maybe I was a bit too young for his Quinn's prime...
Shane Duffy vs Richie Dunne is pretty close. Two absolute monsters
I don't think I've seen a post on here that mixes the sublime with the ridiculous as much as that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
I'm not trying to be offensive - god knows I've taken enough stick for my McGeady fanboy-dom over the years - but really, Duffy over Dunne, you've got to be joking?
I just cannot get over the love of Shane Duffy.
Agree, he was sensational, very underrated. He was also arguably Sheffield Wednesday's best attacking player back when they were a very good solidly Premier League club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Alan Kelly and John Sheridan were cracking players. I'd happily have their 27-year old versions in the current squad. I don't remember who said it, but some pundit (only slightly) exaggerated that Sheridan could drop a ball onto a champagne glass from 40 yards and not break the glass! But 30-odd caps each is hardly a sign of being under-rated. If anything, it's a fairly normal number of caps for their time, and what's raised the bar since their playing days is having a much smaller pool to draw from so that 75 caps plus seems normal because we've had to retain players for too long (McGeady, Whelan) or because they were genuinely indispensable for most of their career (Robbie, Duffer, Given).
Joey LaPeira and his one cap could go in that team. Even though it was only one cap it still felt like one too many.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
I'm sure it's a good quiz question, name an international footballer who never played an international game in his "country's" continent. (E.g. Joe never played an international match in Europe).
Found one - Gary Howlett came on as a sub against China in the 1984 Kirin Cup in Japan - his sole cap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_HowlettQuote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Also, Barry Quinn won three of his four caps in the US Cup in 2000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Quinn
There’d probably be a fair few lads from the 2007 Staunton trip to USA. The fullbacks, the left back from Villa who had a load of injuries and the English born Arsenal right back who went to Yeovil and ended up at Pats or clubs to that effect... (names will come back to me)Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Both looked decent against a second string Ecuador side, along with promising youngsters Gleeson and Potter
Stephen O'Halloran and Joe O'Cearuill.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Perhaps looking at Dunne through green tinted glasses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
He was prone to a mistake on occasion and didn’t have a whole lot of pace.
Don’t get me wrong, a great player and brilliant servant to Ireland. But I’d choose an in-prime Duffy over an in-prime Dunne
I'm astounded. It's not even close for me, even taking into account my utter dislike of Shane Duffy (the player). I think his "ability" (both defensive and attacking aerial process) is being blown out of proportion based on those around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Duffy wouldn't even be in my top 3.
Well that’s your opinion. And mine is different. I think he’s better on the floor than Dunne also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
No doubt you disagree, but that’s part of the beauty of football.
I reckon Dunne probably had better positional sense overall though.
Something he needed to make up for the lack of pace
I think it was generally accepted that Dunne was much quicker than he appeared. I seem to remember him having a couple of tough days against Henry in that regard, who didn't, but for the most part I think his pace would have been an attribute rather than a deficiency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
https://www.offtheball.com/soccer/to...ve-pace-248737
https://www.the42.ie/harry-redknapp-...22194-Jul2018/Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasz Radzinski
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Redknapp
I think he had pace but his acceleration wasn't great. It took I'm a couple to seconds to get going and up to top speed, which at the top level is often too late.
I remember against Wales he gave the ball away to Bellamy and got absolutely roasted. We were very lucky not to concede
I remember being told, by a lad who I played with back years and years ago, who was with him at Home Farm that Everton had a 100m sprint time, which Richie Dunne held for about 8 years. And I remember hearing about it again from someone else when it the record was broken.
Obviously it’s not football distance and he wasn’t particularly fast on the turn and maybe he slowed with age, but Richie was definitely faster than he appeared
Bellamy was electric to be fair. This is Duffy trying to catch some Moldovan lad - https://youtu.be/634SHQzeZ_I?t=103Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Bellamy roasted CBs for a living, that was his thing, not a reason to judge Dunne solely on. I don't remember Dunne failing to keep pace or indeed catch up too often either, if he lacked this acceleration he wouldn't have played so much his career for decent clubs at said top level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
What the hell is Duffy doing wearing number 7??Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Camouflage !Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82