Turkish ref Cuneyt Cakir, who the Irish Sun regard as "Ireland's bogey referee", is to referee the game against Serbia on Tuesday night: https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...r-serbia-game/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Cowzer
Turkish ref Cuneyt Cakir, who the Irish Sun regard as "Ireland's bogey referee", is to referee the game against Serbia on Tuesday night: https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...r-serbia-game/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Cowzer
Tony does have form and I thought some of his interviews with Trap were bang out-of-line, but (for possibly the first time I can remember) I actually felt it was O'Neill who was the needlessly arsey one who was lacking in humility last night. If O'Neill didn't see the point in answering a simple question after being asked to account for why we'd played so badly - something for which all supporters and observers would have liked to hear an explanation, especially considering O'Neill claimed he had an explanation but just didn't want to enlighten us - why did he even do the interview in the first place? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
And if he thought he could get away with evasion and deflection after such an inexcusable showing, I fear he misjudged the public's mood and tolerance for bull when they sense it. I'd say that interview (combined with the team's performance) turned a lot of sympathisers off him. Their patience will only grow thinner if he doesn't deliver a positive response on Tuesday night.
They're contractually mandated to do the interviews aren't they? Which doesn't help at all, if you're in a sour mood after dropping points. Frankly though, I have little sympathy for O'Donoghue, who has a habit of needling interviewees in the way he asks questions, looking for a "Gotcha" moment. You can't ask your questions in that way and then be outraged when the response is tetchy.
Some of the rhetoric thrown around in the last day has been depressingly similar to that said about our last manager, from both those criticizing O'Neill and those defending him. We're in real circa late 2012/2013 territory again, and another bad showing against Serbia is going to seriously tip people against him. Hopefully wiithout a similar score-line, it could be a real Germany at home situation.
I expect a reaction tomorrow evening. Hopefully 2/3 of changes can get us over the line.
I'd go for
Randolph
Christie Clark Duffy Brady
Meyler Arter
McGeady Hoolahan McClean
Long
Long/Walters is borderline. I don't think MO'N will drop Walters. If he has to play it should be up top.
I wouldn't start Long. He is much more effective coming on later as the oppositions defence tires. When needs must O'Neill seems to pick Murphy so I fully expect to see him start tomorrow. I also expect to see Hendrick start ahead of meyler, if hendrick is fit. I too expect a big response from the team and I really hope the crowd get behind the team like never before (remember the response by the crowd v czech republic a few days after the Cyprus away fiasco??). for chr**ts sake its a wc qualifier against our biggest rivals for top spot.... if I turn up to hear a planted piped brass band and a slow rendition of Amhrán na bhFiann played by john delaneys favourite bagpipe band i'll be livid!!Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Anyone who expected a different performance from Ireland away to Georgia hasn't seen or taken in our last visits there where we have been dominated possession wise and been blessed to come away with 3 points. Now, to be fair the possession stats were even worse on this occasion and we didn't play well at all but we should have won the game. 6 shots on target for us and 2 for them. Possession is only worthwhile if it creates and scores goal. Otherwise, other than making people like Mark1234, who advocates a boycott or walk-out of the game on Tuesday !!, it is meaningless. I thought we defended very well for a team which couldn't keep the ball. I also saw this Georgian team outplay Wales in Cardiff for much of the game there. They are not a Liechtenstein or a Malta. They are great at keeping possession but their end product is their problem.
One of the problems was too many of our players didn't perform even if our tactic was the long ball. Walters was anonymous. Arter couldn't keep the ball and possibly had the worst game of all the players.
Despite it all, and the 2 points dropped, we are still second in the group. However, we must beat Serbia on Tuesday otherwise I am not sure that our second place, if gained, would be good enough to qualify for the play offs. If we beat Serbia, and all the rest of the games going to form, I expect us to be leading the group going in to the last game with Serbia a point behind and Wales 2 - pretty much meaning we have to win in Wales as well to win the group. Tall order to beat both Serbia and Wales but to win groups, this is what you have to do.
Park that performance and move on to the next game. That's football.
Yes, it was horrible seeing "O'Neill's Ireland" beat Germany at home, Austria away and Italy at a tournament. Just horrible. Absolute torture.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
What I mean by this is that despite dominating possession of the ball Georgia weren't taking risks at the back. We were teying to hold onto the lead and defending very deep which gave them space and time to knock the ball about in front of us. They were doing that but were keeping their shape. They weren't throwing full backs forward and their midfield weren't getting ahead of rhe ball and making runs in behind our defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
With 6 or 7 men behind the ball they just weren't vulnerable to the counterattack. They had worked out the danger McClean and Long pose on the break and weren't going to fall for it.
I can understand the long ball mentality ( don't agree mind but I understand ) - if you are going to play direct - at least play 4-4-2 with a few strikers and wingers in advanced positions. Why flood the midfield with the likes of Brady and Arter if you are going to Lump it over their heads ( Brady needs to play full back as well ) .
It was hard for me to understand how deep we sat as well - we basically defended 5/10 yards outside our own box against the team ranked 110 in the world. The only mitigating factor I can think of for that is the heat.
We are going to get some hiding on Tuesday and an even bigger one in Wales next month. It looks like we are going to have to go over there and chase a win which is the absolute last position we want to be in. I fear two defeats similar in fashion to Belgium at the Euros - our lack of self belief kicking back in.
i can't understand how we have seemingly regressed so much from the euros (and the bosnia playoff before that). this was evident straight away in serbia.
i thought we were cohehsive and well organised in france and would kick on from that, but it hasn't been the case. i also strongly believe that o'neill will consider a draw tomorrow to be a good result...
Agree with all of wise Owl's post but the link between "unwatchable" football and underperformance is strong. They can't be seen as separate to each other.
The whole "The result is all that matters" chestnut is always dangerous thinking, as it allows you to justify bad performances and wave away regression, until the lucky wins and hard-fought draws suddenly become thumpings. And, as has been pointed out, Ireland under O'Neill have played much better than this, with a very similar squad of players. What's changed? Why did we deliberately go into the Georgian game with a mindset of surrendering possession? I was half-thinking O'Neill is trying to pull a Mourinho, but I don't think Ireland are quite good enough for that sort of approach.
The Bosnia game was probably the exception that defines the rule -and the issue. There appears to be a systematic problem in this sqaud with controling a game/not hanging on with our fingernails from the vantage of being in front -and particularly after going in front early. Bosnia is the only game against anyway notable opposition in the 'MON era' where we scored first then kicked on, scored another and closed the game out.
We lost leads in Georgia and Serbia in this competition, France and Sweden at the finals last year and Bosnia and Scotland in the qualifying.
The hugely significant wins, and there have been hugely significant wins and performances, Germany, Italy, Austria -involved goals scored well into the second half.
hendrick ruled out of tomorrow's game.
The goal in Austria was scored in the first minute of the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Balls. He'd have been a big help I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
Your point in general is valid, especially with regards Austria and Italy, but the win over Germany was pure drivel for 70 minutes until Long scored.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I remember us being overrun in the first half - the Germans missed three or four glorious chances; effectively open goals at that level - and we could barely string two passes together.
I think we played well once we scored, but by and large, that match was well up there in the ineptitude stakes performance-wise.
The Germans only had 3 or 4 glorious chances and probably two or three of those came near the endQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
They didn't have a shot before ht. We had to blood our reserve goalie as an emergency sub in such a drama game and we had a good second half where we did very well.
This victory was a credit to the team and the management, all under extreme pressure and the crowd had a howl of a time.
It was easier than and just as deserved a victory as v Netherlands in 2001.
Don't forget we beat what was basically Italy's reserve team. We wouldn't have had a hope in hell if they hadn't already qualified and were in the position of needing some points from the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
O'Neill has been incredibly lucky so far (as was Trapattoni).
It's been torture watching Ireland play since these two were in charge.
Don't forget we made a number of changes for that game ourselves, including giving Shane Duffy his first competitive game and dropping the captain
never mind our reserves, I would love first teamers who played for the likes of juve, psg, roma and milan like the Italians had that night! id say Conte sent his team out with every intention of winning that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
basically any time we take a big scalp there's no shortage of irish people ready to provide excuses for the opposition we have just beaten. id say we do it better than most.
for years we had beaten no one ranked ahead of us in competitive matches yet already under MON we have beaten Italy, Germany, Bosnia and Austria. I am sure you will come up with excuses for the opposition for each of those wins but in the real world MON cant have been that lucky.
"“I'm a greater believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it”
― Thomas Jefferson
Not to mention all that luck he enjoyed winning all those trophies with Celtic. Or with Leicester. Or the luck he had taking Villa into Europe.
McGeady and Hoolahan injury doubts for tomorrow
Wonder if the knocks are why neither started on Saturday?
Doubt itQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
id say hoolahan didn't start as he was being kept fresh for tomorrow. mcgeady looked lively when he came onQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
If that's the case it's a risky tactic as a player can always pick up a knock in training. Although I don't believe it to be true anyway. O'Neill has not trusted Wes to start much games in these qualifiers. Moldova is the only one that springs to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
The most frustrating aspect is that we know the squad can play football. We've seen it during the last campaign and the Euro's.
I eventually became a massive critic of the Trap towards the last 18 months of his reign because of the style of football and if what was served up the other night continued I'd start to question the manager. I'm hoping MO'N will correct this - I think we miss Hendrick because he is a ball player so it's a shame he is injured.
The players that dictate the style of play are your central midfield players. If they don't take responsibility then you are left with your less comfortable/technical players (the back 4) making decisions under pressure (which they don't want unless they are Pique) resulting in the inevitable hoof. Watch Glenn Whelan. He is terrible for it. He'll point to the centre back to play it back rather than move into a position to receive the ball. It drives me crazy. Arter was woeful as well but he hasn't had 80+ caps of doing the same old ***** I must be banging on about this for the last 4 years now but I think the Georgia game will be the last straw.
Playing Walters also seems to send out a massive flashing beacon to our players to hoof the ball out wide because he'll compete well. However it's a 50/50 ball.....
We need to be brave. I don't expect Guardiola style pass and move overnight. I'm happy with us just trying to mix it up a bit. Back the technical guys like Hoolahan. He does make us play better. That cannot be disputed.
Not sure what game you were watching?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Two gilt-edged chances in the first half on these highlights, plus a disallowed goal (let's consider that not a chance as he was offside - but not by much). "Looking ominous already" and "Ireland pegged back in their own 18 yard box" are two phrases from first-half commentary too.
We were dire in that first half in particular in terms of ball retention and ability to string 4+ passes together - very similar to last night and to Serbia. (And yeah, maybe to Holland too. Not that it stops McAteer and Long's goals being up there as my favourite Ireland goals)
This graphic from the BBC depicts the average positions of Georgia's players and our players over the course of the game:Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps...elandavpos.png
It's pretty self-explanatory. We sat deep and Shane Long, the only player of ours to spend most of the game in the opposition half, was left isolated. An overwhelming majority of their players - eight, to be precise - spent most of the game in our half.
Thankfully, both trained today (according to Philip Quinn), so hopefully the problems aren't too serious. Losing Wes for such a big game would be bad, but losing both creative outlets would be disastrous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
They didn't have a shot (on target) before ht and 2 chances in 45 minutes against our one isn't exactly being battered.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
In all, Germany effected little in that game considering their elevated status compared to our plodders.
perhaps you consider a german chance blocked by a defender to be gilt edged but Walters ready to shoot into the net being blocked, was just good defending?
Just because Ireland are playing particularly cráp now for a few games and O'Neill hasn't imposed himself to good effect, doesn't mean history can be revised in order to opine that O'Neill has always been crap and be cast into the same hole that Trap was consigned to, the lucky manager whenever something went right.
Sigh.
So you were wrong on the shots matter to start off with. Those are two glorious chances (like I said) and really should have been scored. There were others too - Boateng missed with a free header from a corner early on, there was a decent penalty shout and Keogh got in an excellent block. We were blessed that night that the normally clinical Germans left their shooting boots at home.
The commentary bits I quoted are also indicative of the way the game was going. From the Guardian's live commentary at the time, there's phrases like "This is extraordinarily one-sided", "Could this be one of the great 0-0 thrashings?" and "Ireland have the ball in Germany's half! Admittedly, Germany are down to ten men"
We were really really poor for most of that game. First half in particular. There's no point being revisionist about it. (Arguably, it just made the goal sweeter)
Touché. I'd misremembered it being later. I think my point stands though. Our instincts and temperament when in front leaves something to be desired -particlularly when we score early and thus haven't settled properly into a good pro-active mindset and tempo. Plain mad as it sounds and reads, it actually appears to adversely affect the gameplan.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...o-georgia.html
Blog on trip and game for those of you that enjoy them......
I have some thoughts but I'm saving em for Tuesday night's/Wednesday morning's 'O'Neill out/O'Neill must be out of genie wishes/O'Neill is an actual genie, we're going to Russia!' thread.
Only thing on my mind right now as the biggest indictment of O'Neill is the complete lack of a system or tactical plan. Hey, many may have hated on Trapattoni but at least we knew how we were going to play and, generally speaking, it made certain logical sense even if it was complete brock.
This team though - what are they? O'Neill really is one of the least proactive managers going, it's just pure reactive, on-the-day to whatever's going on man-management to try and get us over the line. I mean what was going on with that team in the last 20 minutes against Georgia? Brady and McClean in the middle, wingers everywhere, three strikers. The fact it nearly worked (in a way) is weirdly depressing.
Meanwhile, in Belfast, team with a tactical clue cruises into the play-offs with an easy win when they only needed a point...
Makes you wonder Danny, doesn't it, why or how we 'lost' them last Saturday?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Did they get lost on the street and couldn't find their way to the game (McGeady showing up an hour late) or did the manager lose sight of them on the bench?
Ok, that's the team. But what's the game plan and the tactics?Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Precisely. When you have a mindset of "the result is all that matters" it is ok because it is stating the obvious and nobody can criticize you for that. But it's a kop out. Questions need to be answered about the 'conspiracy' which was Ireland's performance in Georgia. How can any team knowingly and willingly hand possession back to another team with such regularity? It just doesn't make sense and anyone who tries to justify it needs to see a shrink. Had Conor McGregor stood there last week, from the opening bell, and invited Mayweather to hit him on the chin as many times as he could, we'd have all asked for our money back. But yet some on here are trying to justify exactly that from the football team. Sixty-four thousand dollar question - did O'Neill tell them to do that beforehand, or did the players just say to themselves: "To hell with the manager's instructions to play a passing game, we're just going to hoof it long and take the night off"Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Post spun out into their own thread
You are spot on - 110% correct with everything you say on here shaker. Whelan has absolutely no creativity about him (I will say no more because I've spent ten years criticizing him and what the hell do I know). And Walters, you are right about John. If he's in the team not only does it send a message to our players but to the opposition also. The ball will be played long and big John will compete. So just take a couple of steps back (if you're a defender) and the ball will eventually come your way. Love the guy, but that style of play is as old as the hills. Brady, McClean and McGeady should be given license to run through the middle at the Serbs tomorrow night.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
That is a good point if we could choose which game to get a result in it would be this one. McGeady did miss a late chance, albeit a difficult one.