Ireland v England 1995

Its the 10th anniversary of the Ireland v England abandoned match tomorrow so I felt I'd open this thread to see if anyone has any stories to tell (and to remind any journalists reading this forum ;) ). :)

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LONDON Ireland's February 15 soccer fixture with England at the Lansdowne Road stadium in Dublin was abandoned after rioting organised by fascist groups. When Ireland scored the first goal after 22 minutes, English fans chanting “No surrender to the IRA” unleashed a hail of missiles on Irish fans and invaded the pitch.

As running battles developed with Gardai riot police, English rioters waved Ulster Loyalist flags and gave Nazi salutes.

The “No surrender to the IRA” chant was more than the Ulster Loyalists' ritual “No surrender” slogan -- it was a specific reference to the current Northern Ireland peace process, which according to right-wing Unionist politicians involves capitulation to Sinn F‚in and the IRA.

After 20 minutes of disturbances, the match was abandoned and the ground cleared of Irish fans. A hard core of English supporters stayed in the stadium fighting riot police for a further 90 minutes, leading to 40 arrests and 20 serious injuries.

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Wednesday, February 15th, 1995 - England's night of shame

Friendly

Lansdowne Road, Dublin

Republic of Ireland 1 (D Kelly)
England 0

Match abandoned after 27 mins

Ireland: Alan Kelly (Sheffield Utd), Denis Irwin (Manchester Utd), Terry Phelan (Manchester City), Alan Kernaghan (Manchester City), Paul McGrath (Aston Villa), Eddie McGoldrick (Arsenal), Andy Townsend (Aston Villa) capt, David Kelly (Wolves), Niall Quinn (Manchester City), John Sheridan (Sheffield Wednesday), Steve Staunton (Aston Villa)

Manager: Jack Charlton

England: Seaman, Barton, Le Saux, Platt, Adams, Pallister, Beardsley, Ince, Shearer, Le Tissier, Anderton

Referee: Jol (Holland)

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they had to riot. imagine if regulation time was played and we beat them!! shock shock horror!!

I remember the whole atmosphere in town that day being one of threat & menace. I can't rembember which pub it was, but one of the pubs on Baggot St had a Union Jack draped over the bar and the fans accompanying it certainly weren't there to exchange banter.

I was on the Nth Terrace and it's not commonly remembered but there was a small pocket of English fans in the corner. I was actually so close to them that the stuff they started throwing went over my head rather than on it.

My mate had a "Visiting Association" ticket for the West Upper. He complained to a steward that he wasn't comfortable and asked if he could move further to the north end of the stand. The clueless steward didn't stand for it and glibly replied that there'd be no trouble. I think that said it all from the organisational point of view. Any experienced football attender could tell that the atmosphere was full of menace, much more so than any previous encounter against England. The November 1990 game had a poisonous atmoshphere but that was a walk in the park compared to the 1995 game. Anyway, when Kelly scored my mate pulled his hood over his head and ran. He met an upsurging group of English fans running up the same stairs he was running down and it's only because he hid his colours and his accent does he think he escaped harm.

It's only by chance that the FAI & Gardai didn't have blood on their hands that day.

The very sight of modern day Nazis saluting their own anthem the way they did was a sight I'll never forget.

On the pitch I feel we'd have gone on to win by 3 if the game had continued, such was our dominance. I always cite the paucity of England's play in that game to those over here who continue to heap praise on Venables' "superior " coaching skills.

First game I attended in LR. In the South Terrace and there was definitley a bad atmosphere coming into the game. Queueing up to get into the Terrace and about 80 skinheads came down the road flanked by the Gardai, and that was 80 of the scariest faces I have ever seen, singing anti pope tunes as they went by. Heard some commotion as they went around the corner and apparently they all jumped the turnstiles into the ground.

Funniest bit was when we were leaving the ground and an English "fan" was thrown out of the ground by two Gardai. Some Irish bloke walked straight up to him and hit him a sweet right hook across the jaw and shouted "Thanks for ruining the match" and walked off. The "fan" went legging back to the Gardai for protection and they just laughed at him

Whilst for once agreeing with Davros, the urban myths such as the rioters crying when they were told they would be put in with Provo Prisoners are a pleasure to hear, I think it'd be wrong to let this thread pass without the role of the Guards in the lead up to the match.

They refused to enlist the help of the UK police in stopping people travelling, and refused to enlist the UK police spotters at the airports and ferry terminals. Also the positioning of the England fans in a top teir was just stupid, and the Guards/FAI should've copped on to that. It's only in recent seasons that even in English Domestic soccer that away fans have been let in above home fans.

The Guards were out of their depth - don't think things have improved in recent years (witness the mayday "riots" a few years ago, or their inability to police Doyles Corner for Bohs v Rovers).

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Originally Posted by Macy

The Guards were out of their depth - don't think things have improved in recent years

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Typical! If they had done more they'd criticised for going over the top as they were at the EU Accession ceremony last year.

I know a garda who was at the game and they were well able to deal with the numbers but the tiered seating in a football ground makes confrontation difficult.

If they had put the English in the lower stand and they invaded the pitch en-mass, attacking players etc. then you'd be complaining as well.

There's no excuse for what the thugs did that day and I'm glad the Gardai aren't experienced in these situations because if they were, sport in Ireland would be in a sorry state.

Watched it on tv & main memories are that clip of young kid (where is he now?) crying as he standing on the pitch in front of West Stand. :eek:

Was also very embarishing to watch clearly unorganised Gardai. Nothing against the individual guards but there was no coordination & looked like hadn't a clue how to deal with a riot. In fact they beg=haved very similar during those Mayday "riots" i.e. wading into rioters instead of trying to pick them off one by one. :(

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Originally Posted by Peadar

Typical! If they had done more they'd criticised for going over the top as they were at the EU Accession ceremony last year.

I know a garda who was at the game and they were well able to deal with the numbers but the tiered seating in a football ground makes confrontation difficult.

If they had put the English in the lower stand and they invaded the pitch en-mass, attacking players etc. then you'd be complaining as well.

There's no excuse for what the thugs did that day and I'm glad the Gardai aren't experienced in these situations because if they were, sport in Ireland would be in a sorry state.

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Well there would'nt have been stuff coming down from a height - easy to cordone off an area at pitch level then 30(?) foot up?

Regardless of the guards reactions in the ground, if they'd listened to the advice on who to let in/ who not to let in the likely hood is that a major incident would have been avoided.

The Guards can't even police a few hippy's on Dame Street without wading in.

And just to clarify, I'm not making excuses for the thugs - tbh kinda torn whether they should've got a kicking of the guards like they did, and the fact that it is plain wrong for police to take that sort of action.

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Originally Posted by Macy

And just to clarify, I'm not making excuses for the thugs - tbh kinda torn whether they should've got a kicking of the guards like they did, and the fact that it is plain wrong for police to take that sort of action.

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They got off lghtly as far as I'm concerned.
If they'd been nationalists in Northern Ireland they'd have been shot at with plastic/rubber bullets.

I would like to see England play Ireland someday where there's a load of banter but only football fans get access to the game.
The only way to organise that would be to sell the tickets through supporters clubs and then check passports and tickets at the turnstiles.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

The only way to organise that would be to sell the tickets through supporters clubs and then check passports and tickets at the turnstiles.

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But that's my point, the UK police wanted to have spotters at the ground (and airports/ports) and the (in your opinion) do no wrong guards went it alone rather than take the help/ accept the intelligence. The dicks wouldn't have got in the ground to cause the problems.

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Originally Posted by davros

Agreed!

The practicalities over the behaviour of some Eng.fans & their fascist constituency,makes it hard to see when any game might happen......unless a WC/Euro' draw v.them.......& the ***** are due a result v.us!

Let's hope it doesn't happen for many years yet......

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Next possible game will probably be held in the UK anyway....

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Originally Posted by Macy

(in your opinion) do no wrong guards went it alone rather than take the help/ accept the intelligence.

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Maybe someone felt it was about time someone gave them a good kicking and that's why they were allowed into the ground.

To be honest, I don't think there's much point dragging it all back up again so long as we've learned something from it. It was 10 years ago, lets move on.

It was actually my first international. I was in the West Upper (very close to the England fans) with my Dad and I was fairly scared when the trouble broke out and wanted to leave immediately but my Dad was having none of it! I think he thought that there was a possibility that the game might restart at some stage and was kind of having the attitude that we were not going to be driven out of the ground by the behaviour of the Eng fans. Eventually he gave in and we left via the emergency exits.
I always remember being outside the ground and a group of about 7 or 8 Eng fans came towards us chanting and throwing shapes and there was only one solitary Guard around and he did nothing then all of a sudden a few Dubs in Ireland shirts came over and said a few words to the England boys and they swiftly shut up and moved along. I was never so glad to see a few barstooler Dubs!!

that match was one of 3 home internationals ive messied since i was 4 unfortunately :mad: - dont know why, maybe my dad thought something was gona happen :cool:

agree re: the preday policing but on the day having to clean up their mess, I was never so proud of irelands finest that day. The guads did well! ;)

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Originally Posted by Peadar

Maybe someone felt it was about time someone gave them a good kicking and that's why they were allowed into the ground.

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Well done to the Guards then eh? Especially given the potential for someone innocent and/or Irish to be seriously injured/killed :rolleyes:

The only reason trouble at grounds in the Uk has deccreased over the years is because the Police spend a huge amount of resources pre & during matchday.

There was a documentary on football hooliganism on during the summer. They had some thug saying that it was the Irish that started everything with IRA chanting etc. That nearly made my blood boil I can tell you.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Next possible game will probably be held in the UK anyway....

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Based on what?

Macy is correct, the dozy guards actually turned down UK police spotters - which would have prevented any trouble that day.

Anyone who has been at a "Category A" game in the UK will know that the police usually have it all tied down with nothing more than groups of lads in Aquascutum posturing at each other. Here, on the other hand, the cops have a completely ad hoc approach to policing crowds - whether it be hippies or football fans - which usually leads to preventible trouble.

KOH

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Here, on the other hand, the cops have a completely ad hoc approach to policing crowds - whether it be hippies or football fans - which usually leads to preventible trouble.

KOH

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There's only trouble when Rovers are in town.
Lets face it, we never see trouble any other time.
Rovers seem to bring out a bad element in every club.
"Firms" are nowhere near as organised in Ireland as they are elsewhere and therefore the policing doesn't need to be on the same scale.
It would cause a national outcry if we spent a fraction of the money the police in the UK spend on football. It's multi-millions each year.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

There's only trouble when Rovers are in town.

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They're not always the ones that start it though are they Peadar. Because of their reputation, you get every Stone-Island and Burberry wearing pseudo soul crew wannabe hardman coming out when Rovers are in town looking for it.

In fairness, if the City and Longford fans that were involved in the troubles at Rovers games last year are left back into the grounds by our clubs when Rovers visit next season, we can't really give Rovers too much sh!te about their own inability to weed out their troublemakers.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

There's only trouble when Rovers are in town.
Lets face it, we never see trouble any other time.
Rovers seem to bring out a bad element in every club.
"Firms" are nowhere near as organised in Ireland as they are elsewhere and therefore the policing doesn't need to be on the same scale.
It would cause a national outcry if we spent a fraction of the money the police in the UK spend on football. It's multi-millions each year.

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:rolleyes:

Where did I mention Rovers? And we are spending millions on crowd control every year - all to pay overtime to cops who aren't trained to police crowds.

I know the figures that Rovers, for instance, owe to the Guards for policing and they've never paid a penny of it meaning that the tax payer ultimately foots the bill.

KOH

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Originally Posted by tiktok

They're not always the ones that start it though are they Peadar.

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I didn't say they start it.
If you read my post you'll see that I said they bring out an element in other clubs. An element which isn't present for other games.
I'm around the game too long not to see the reality of crowd trouble.
We're no angels, but we get through the majority of our games without incident.

Watched the game from the East Stand but my Dad was in the England section. He had bought a ticket that afternoon from Merrion Square as my cousin had travelled up without one and got my Dad's regular seat. He got out quick when the trouble started and was unhurt. no mobiles i nthose days so it was an anxious few minutes before we all got back to the meeting point.

Guys were hell bent on trouble. The guards couldn't cope and mistakes were made but they were in no way to blame.

One of the guys arrested had left the following on his screensaver back in his UK IT company "Gone to fight for Queen and Country" Enough said.

Sometimes crowd violence is blamed on heavy handed policing but the guards were very softt oo until the trouble started. The sight afterwards shown on TV of the guard hammering an English fan with his baton, losing his hat and continue the beating is one I'll never forget. I wonder was he ever charged with excessive use of force. :D

The English FA have clamped down hard and there is a proper travel club now. Still I'd rather avoid them in a potential playoff or in Germany. I'd also be concerned that some of our own new breed of fans would be more likely to take them on too.

On the football side we had played very well i nthe first 20 minutes and probably would have gone on to win the game.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

If you read my post you'll see that I said they bring out an element in other clubs. An element which isn't present for other games.

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Yeah, you're right, jumped the gun a bit on your post there. :o

Thing is though, if we had proper policing, that element wouldn't be present at Rovers games either.

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Originally Posted by gspain

I'd also be concerned that some of our own new breed of fans would be more likely to take them on too.

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Unfortunately, after Paris, that's a concern I'd share :(

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Originally Posted by Junior

Based on what?

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Based on the fact that a friendly isn't likely, so it'll be the next qualifying campaign and Lansdowne and Croke Park won't be available. Nothing sinister...

'the poor young fella, that was what the indo and most papers followed up with. I wonder what the coverage was like over here i.e. England ( did it make front page?????)'

I remember sky invited him over for a united match (i think it was united) and had him in the studio beforehand - the little s_-_e did well out of it anyway!! (though im sure he got the slagged a fair bit in school over it :eek: !!)

'Well done to the Guards then eh? Especially given the potential for someone innocent and/or Irish to be seriously injured/killed '

Yeah, well done to them thats what I say Macy. As i said leading up to the match i agree with ye, they were shambolic, but for beating the s_-t out of them, fair play - no sympathy for the brits, what comes around goes around.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

Unfortunately, after Paris, that's a concern I'd share :(

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Most of them would run a mile if anything real flared up.
We didn't have any such problems in Basel.
Lets hope Paris was the exception.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

Most of them would run a mile if anything real flared up.
We didn't have any such problems in Basel.
Lets hope Paris was the exception.

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I donno Peadar, there seems to be a lot more fools who think supporting the National team is a all bout hating England/Rangers.

I'd be delighted in one sense if we drew England becuase IMO we'd give them a good beating on the pitch, but I'd worry about how certain people could behave themselves on both sides

'Can you clarify that you are limiting your comments to events at that match?'

Whats to clarify? Those f_-ks go all around europe kicking up s_-t whereever they go and then had the cheek to come over and 'do' lansdowne and dublin earlier on that day - they deserved the guards laying into them, fair play to them :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SÓC

I donno Peadar, there seems to be a lot more fools who think supporting the National team is a all bout hating England/Rangers.

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But hasn't that always been there?
I think the problem now is that low cost airlines and the ability to arrange travel over the Internet has allowed more people to travel away.
If you talk to some of the auld fellas on away trips they'll tell you about the lengths they went to for away games before.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

I forgot, in your books being English and following the team was reason enough to kick heads.

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Well maybe in future you'll make a point of remembering these important facts before you post. ;)

Flew over the weekend before the game, to stay with my relatives in Bray. Was doing revision for my entrance exams to secondary school. I could tell there was going to be trouble from the flight over (Heathrow - Dublin) as there were a load of hooligans on it, I was suprised that they all passed thru security at Dublin airport so easily. I know a few English fans were in Bray at the time, a couple of families with kids had come over on the ferry and were staying in BnBs along the seafront. Saw them in Superquinn the day before the match, they said they were having a good time in Bray and everyone was really friendly to them. Saw them again after the match, one of their kids had been hit by an England hooligan (who assumed that, as a family they must have been "home" fans), they said they had never been to an England match before and were never going to go again, and the kid said he was going to support who ever was playing against England from then on.

I saw the match on TV, in terms of football we totally outclassed them and I think that probably explains why the trouble started. Im not saying there wouldnt have been any trouble (im sure with the sorts of "fans" they took over to Dublin it was always going to happen), but I think it would have been after the match. But I think the fact we were so superior on the pitch upset the hooligans early on and they just lost the plot. Their behaviour was a disgrace, and although the Guards were sloppy in preparing for the game, it should always be rememberd that it was the English who were the ones acting the fool during the match. Once the trouble started I think the Guards were actually fairly measured (or even laid back) given the level of trouble, the England fans caused trouble and had to be dealt with. Im sure if they'd gone to USA 94 6 months earlier and acted like that the NYPD etc wouldnt have thought twice about a more rigourous approach to riot control, the Italians dealt with them in a similar manner in Rome when they acted the fool there a couple of years later.

From what i remember i thought the english started the better, i think beardsley had a couple of good chances.

what happened over in paris? didnt hear any reports of violence?

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Originally Posted by elroy

From what i remember i thought the english started the better, i think beardsley had a couple of good chances.

what happened over in paris? didnt hear any reports of violence?

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There was minor trouble on the Friday night, some fans I met on the metro said there were a few altercations between a few fans and local youths I think someone was hit on the head by glass outside an Irish Bar. During the morning/mid-day before the game some fans got drunk, jumped on buses etc. I didnt see anything myself, but I was based out in the north of the city and didnt go into the center before the game. In terms of at the Stade De France there was (so far as im aware) no trouble at all and fans of both teams were well behaved during the game.

All in all the usual happenings of an average night out in any Irish town/city so.
Paris police are meant to be the business if any bit of trouble is about

The incidents in Paris were between some Moselm youths and some Irish fans. French were not involved.

I think people here are being far too lienient on the Gardai. They singularly failed to take any advice fromt he more experienced English police who did indeed offer "spotters". They had no plan for containing the rioters so it appeared that it was every guard for themselves. When they finally managed to get them out of Lansdowne a good number of them made it into the city centre. That never should have been allowed to happen. It was an unprofessional performance by the Guards and it was sheer luck that no-one was killed. BTW, had the English acted that way in the US, they would have been shot. Literally, the would have been shot.

As for the game itself....we were playing very well. John Sheridan (the most underrated Irish player in recent years) was dominating the midfield and spreading the ball all over the pitch. He made a lovely pass to David Kelly who stuck it in the back of the net.

Of the Irish starting IX:

Ireland: Alan Kelly (Sheffield Utd), Denis Irwin (Manchester Utd), Terry Phelan (Manchester City), Alan Kernaghan (Manchester City), Paul McGrath (Aston Villa), Eddie McGoldrick (Arsenal), Andy Townsend (Aston Villa) capt, David Kelly (Wolves), Niall Quinn (Manchester City), John Sheridan (Sheffield Wednesday), Steve Staunton (Aston Villa)

Six of them could be considered English insofar as they were raised in England for most, if not all, of their lives. I remember Townsend trying to calm the crowd to no avail. Would be curious to see what their recollections are of the game.

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Originally Posted by davros

......one thug was allegedly stripped naked by the Gards,dumped in the Wicklow Mountains at night & told to make his own way home!...

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That wasnt a thug, it was a GAA referee, they have a rep. for that kind of thing in Wicklow! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Conor74]And it's well known that the Gardai carried out an exhaustive and thorough investigation before deciding which English fans to beat up. :rolleyes:




They should have used live bullets on the b***ards, and asked questions later. ;) I take it your going to say that Ireland fans had stuff other then their towns and city's written on their Tricolours again Conor. ;)