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I wonder how many Irish players have been signed by foreign managers since the inception of the Premier League?
Duff. I'm sure there's got to be one or two more.
Every time an Irish player is linked with a PL team it's managed by a Brit.
Funny Leicester are managed by Ranieri. He's the man who signed Duff.
If only there were a list of transfers you could use to research this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Oh wait, there is!
It's on wikipedia (where else) and starts with the summer 2002 transfer window: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rs_summer_2002
Links for the following windows at the bottom of the page under "English football transfer lists"
I, for one, await your report on "Foreign* managers who signed Irish players for Premier League clubs" with extreme anticipation
*I'm assuming here that foreign refers to non-UK nationals - does that mean that Dave O'Leary signing Robbie Keane for Leeds counts as a "foreign" manager?
I will report back with my findings once I get on my laptop.
Will you also be looking at Irish players signed by Irish managers in that time in the leagues you look into ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Don't bother your hole, McCarthy signed by Martinez (x2), Long by Koeman, Keane by Benitez.... there's probably not much more but there's nothing xenophobic or sinister about it,Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
managers will generally sign players they are familiar with. Keano in Sunderland a good example.
Jaysus Joe, why don't you tell him what you really think :) I was subtly hinting at it above but nothing like a sledge to a peanut.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Martinez spent virtually his entire playing and managerial career in Britain and is married to a Scottish woman, but point taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Long wasn't signed by Koeman. That signing was negotiated before he arrived at the club.
I'm pretty sure the Keane signing went over Benitez head, hence the reason he was treated like crap by him. I'm open to correction on that though.
language, dear boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
TOWK draw up the list anyway.
Well Dave was born in London...Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
*wonders if he passes gut test?*
I'd cite this as an example why you get in so many arguments in here TOWK. Presented with 3 answers which are all undeniable facts to a question you posed, you find a way to asterisk each example to back up some pre conceived argument you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
The fact that 65% of Premier League managers are 'foreign' means that yes, Irish players being signed by them will be in the minority.
Long wasn't signed by Koeman.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
"Keane the victim as Benítez battles for control of transfer policy at Liverpool" (Guardian). Doesn't sound like Benitez was instrumental in Keane's signing.
What I said about Martinez is the only thing that makes me sound stubborn, I freely admit that, but he has spent almost half his life and virtually his entire senior football career in Britain. So it's not the same as Marco Silva or Aitor Karanka.
Yes Irish players will be in the minority, of course, but you can't tell me there aren't English/Scottish players from the lower leagues on a similar level to Hendrick, Brady, Hourihane, Judge, Doherty and Cunningham being snapped up by foreign managers on a pretty steady basis compared to their Irish colleagues.
Every time an Irish player seems to be heavily linked with a PL team it seems to be managed by Dyche, Allardyce, Moyes or Bruce.
It's getting to the point where the only way an Irish player will get a chance at that level is if they are promoted.
Okay.
I'm researching Irish players signed by foreign managers in the PL since approx. 1993 starting now.
I will edit this post as I go on.
#1 Steve Finnan was signed by Gerard Houllier; #2 Steven Reid signed by Roberto Di Matteo; #3 Andy Reid was signed by Martin Jol; #4 Andy O'Brien was signed by Alain Perrin; #5 James McCarthy was signed by Roberto Martinez; #6 Conor Sammon was signed by Roberto Martinez; #7 Aiden McGeady was signed by Roberto Martinez; #8 Damien Duff was signed by Claudio Ranieri, #9 Robbie Keane was signed by Rafael Benitez; #10 Shane Long by Ronald Koeman
10 players.
Look I agreed with you from the beginning, and me giving 3 more examples to the Duff transfer was basically what you said anyway. 4 example on 20 years proves your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Why wasn't Long signed by Koeman.? He was the 7th transfer by Southampton, 2 months after Koeman took over and out of the blue according to Long. I just don't see how you can't say he was signed by Koeman? Similarly with Keane. Benitez was manager when he signed, ipso facto, he was signed by Benitez. Whatever about everything going on in the background.
So what you're saying is that a Managers nationality has nothing to do with it, managers buy players from leagues they are familiar with. Managers coming from continental leagues, are less likely to sign Irish players from the Championship, a league they are not familiar with, regardless of the managers nationality. Yes I agree with you and can see a very clear logic behind it. You probably should have said that at the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Is this study going to be limited to players signed by English clubs only?
Robbie Keane to LA Galaxy, Doyle to Colorado, Duff to Melbourne, Sheridan to Bulgaria, etc. All Irish players signed by non-UK managers
I remember reading at the time that Les Reed was responsible for recruiting Long, not Koeman. But yes, he was signed under Koeman's reign. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
discussion spun out into its own thread
What grade do I get?
Nothing until the report is complete
Didn't Finnan go to Levante? Babb went to Portugal too
There's a long list of LOI players who have went to Australia/America and many other far away places. Eamon Zayed to Iran, Shane McFaul to Finland, Roy O'Donovan to Indonesia.
You could go on for days trying to exhaust this list.
And Ian Harte.
But I think the rules are "signed by foreign manager for PL teams since 93" only.
Pointless thread.
I don't think it's that pointless.
We are in the middle of a transition.
We are transitioning from an Intl team that can source a squad made up predominantly of Premier League players to an Intl team that can source a squad made up of predominantly Championship players.
It will be interesting to see what impact this has on the Intl team.
Is it fair to say that?
Delaney, O'Shea and Given are close to retirement. Whelan and Walters are in their mid-thirties. Ireland, Ward and S. Long are in their thirties.
What does that leave you?
Meyler, Lenihan, Randolph, Arter, Wilson, Hendrick, K. Long, McClean, Coleman, McCarthy and Gibson.
Four of them are non factors.
That leaves Meyler, Randolph, Arter, Hendrick, McClean, McCarthy and Coleman; out of these players, Randolph (29), Arter (27), Hendrick (25) and Coleman (28) are guaranteed first team players.
It's getting to the stage where McCarthy is linked with Championship teams. Even a superb Euros showing wasn't enough to get Brady a PL move; it only got Hendrick a move to a promoted team with a budget on the lower end of the scale.
I'm coming at this glass half empty, but you can't deny that in the space of ten years the situation has changed from 3 or 4 Irish players at Top 4 teams to 0 Irish players at Top 6 teams.
I wish there was a greater spread of Irish players across the continent, but I suppose the Championship is, arguably, the 6th best league in the world so it's not all doom and gloom.
But foreign managers signing or not signing Irish players is not worth talking about. That's the pointless part as it is almost completely irrelevant to the post you've just made.
If we want to talk about contingency planning, the time for that was 10-15 years ago as some of us tried to do. FWIW I think it will be fine to have a team and squad of predominantly Championship players to maintain where we are currently - occasional qualification for tournaments that is now set to be easier than ever before with the expansion of the Euros and the pending expansion of the WC.
If we want to progress beyond those ambitions then the only contingency plan that makes sense is the development and prioritisation of our domestic league. We need to control our footballing destiny. A few on here have been saying this for at least 10 years now.
Debating why foreign managers don't like signing Irish players is a false flag and not worth our energy.
(by the way I honestly wasn't having a go at you by saying it was pointless - just in general)
I would accept a report on all Irish transfers during the premier league era, with an appendix highlighting the transfers by non-UK managers. Seeing as TOWK will have to go through all transfers anyway, this would seem to be more acceptable to the judging panel
I'm reasonably optimistic about the near to medium term batch of players. I'm not fussed that we haven't got top 4 players.
If you want to look into the reasons why non-UK managers don't buy many Irish players I think it's worth looking into who their agents are, and which clubs / managers tend to use which agents.
i'd go along with this - realistically we're going to have a smattering of PL players, a fair few from the championship and one or two others. the same is true of scotland and northern ireland. wales have a couple of more players playing top flight but are they really better than us, bale aside? scratch that, even including bale? well we are going to find out in the next few months...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
should brady get a move to the premier league and if newcastle and brighton both go up and swansea go down we start to even out. then we have the likes of horgan and manning coming through aswell.
my main concern is that we are light up front. germane to the topic and not sure if mentioned, but benitez did sign murphy...
Given the expansion of the study, I'm open to retitling the thread
Could we have a report too on black haired players who have been signed by blonde haired managers and how many were signed by former English internationals? This has to be the most ridiculous thread in a long time, but if it keeps TOWK busy, so be it.
I don't think it's pointless, but I think TOWK is approaching it in the wrong way - trying to prove bias by non-UK managers against Irish players.
The only way to do that would be to compare the number of Irish players signed by foreign managers to players of every nationality signed by non-UK managers. Of course, then you could probably use that data to prove bias against any nationality
I think Joe in Post #15 covered that pretty well. It's completely pointless in terms of anything being proven or unproven, but maybe the full results would be of slight interest all the same. I'd be most interested in how we compare to Scottish players as that's the closest we'll get to 'like for like' I think.
If this can lead into something bigger i am happy to do something up that can be easily maintained.
There are only 2 nationalities: Irish and Foreign.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
just add it all to a wikipedia pageQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Dan McDonnell on the Class of 92Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-35369931.html
Benitez did sign Murphy and Clark after Newcastle were relegated, but he wouldn't have signed them if they stayed up.
Murphy was signed at the end of the window after they failed to sign their preferred targets.
He's been signed as someone who can score goals at Championship level - the perception being that he can't do it at a higher level.
I think there's a preconceived notion of Irish players as grafters, that they can't be anything else.
Hourihane can play at a higher level than the dross he has been linked with.
Brady too.
Please do not waste your time examining hypotheticals, the commissioned study is not to cover players that might not have been signed if X had/had not occurred.
Of course, its the taxpayer who'll end up footing the bill for this farce of a report anyway (The TWOK Report). And then there'll be a tribunal (The Tets Tribunal). And at the end of the day, nothing will change. Sad!
SMACKS of a teacher getting a student to do a meaningless project, just to shut him up. OWN UP Tets! :-)