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Athlone Town : brand new stadium, construction underway... 5,000seater.
Finn Harps (1st div last yr) : brand new stadium,gym and offica space, construction to begin faily soon (i think)... 6,600 seater.
Limerick FC : brand new stadium, planning app... 7,000 seater.
Sligo Rovers : In the middle of a complete redevelopment, new all-weather pitches... ???? seater.
No harm in that at all. If the first division teams can show that kind of initiative and draw the crowds, then I think there is a strong case for an extended premier division which I would much prefer to see rather than this 12 team rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
Extended premier division?! Isnt 12 teams extended??? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Monaghan United
3 new pitches
4 new Astro Turf pitches
1 New Club House
Newly resurfaced Car Park
and our state of the art Cow and Horse Enclosure at the Newbliss End :D
Clones Road Casual
The Original CRC
Accept No Substitutes
Its just that I would much prefer to see an 18 team league. It might raise the standards & profiles of some of the "smaller teams" and I think it would make it a more exciting league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
I think 16 team would be the way to go.
One division with no promotion and relegation?
And what about the rest?
I would agree with you but I don't think the chairmen of the clubs would go for it somehow. I mean, you had Ollie Byrne moaning about the number of home fixtures being reduced from 18 to 16/17 this season. In a 16 team league that would be down to 15. Although you could increase the number of Setanta cup games to compensate. Either way, I think the ambitous First Division teams should at least be given a fair crack of the whip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
A single 18 team League would do little to raise standards (I'm assuming here you're not proposing a 4 team First Division at the same time, which would be ludicrous). The only competition would be amongst 2 or 3 clubs at the top for the Title. Everyone else would know that no matter what they did they'd still be in the league and able to take advantage of regular games against the big boys. Complacency would set-in at a lot of clubsQuote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Necessity is the mother of all invention. The graveyard that is the First Division creates a burning necessity to get out of it. Having a 10 or 12 team premier with promotion and relegation presents the opportunity to get out, and also the necessity to try to keep-up with the bulk of the premiership to avoid falling back into the graveyard. This is how standards get raised.
Big Premier division leagues that are much bigger than other divisions have been tried and rejected by seemingly most smaller footballing nations in Europe, including the League of Ireland (post 1985), the Irish League and the SPL.
The IL Premier is 16 teams isn't it?
The same could more be said of smaller premier divisions. Scotland and the Irish League actually blame the small top flight for a lot of their current problems and have moved in the opposite direction.
I've said before it's got to be an all ireland league (at least 16 teams in the top flight) or a radical restructuring of the league here (a geographic divisional split and then play off's for the title) to turn football around on the island/republic imo.
Was plesentley surprised with the VAST imporvements to CHP from the last time i was up there. Lovely clubhouse and bar. Only wish we had one :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Clones Road Cas
The key is to not to have a single whopping great league in isolation, or to have 2 leagues with a big imbalance of numbers (e.g. a 16 and a 6/8, for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
The 4 senior leagues in England have 20-22 teams each - which in isolation appear big, but in the context of a 92 team senior structure isn't.
the ideal would be an all-ireland league with an 18 team premier and then a first division split north and south, with the winners of each section getting promotion.
The only problem with a league of more than the current numer, 12, is the non event games. Irish fans do not have a good record of attending games when they see nothing to play for. In a 10 team and 12 team league its very late in the season before all issues are decided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Until that happens nothing is going to change. The Setanta Cup is going to be a good thing to get the media talking about an All-Ireland league and maybe put some pressure on the IFA/FAI to think about it. I seriously think it is the ONLY way in which the football here can progress..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
That is the only credible suggestion to have the premier division extended ... that is the only way it will improve the standard of football.
What about this though .... what about relegation ? how would it work ?
And if it were to happen ... the winners of the two firsts would have gto get alot more money when coming up to ensure they have a chance at staying there. Also ... would love ot see a play off type thing for the 2nds in both the firsts and the 2nd and 3rd last in the premier with two staying up. That would really make it interesting. (not sure if my suggestin would work but something like that)
It is good to see so much development in the Lower Division.
If you add in the projected completion of Tallaght and Harps new ground in the Premier Division, things are happening.
As regards the size of the Premier one comment.
Serie A has 20 teams this season; And La Liga has 18 teams.
But of course they are not English so they must be ****e ...... :p
I think even with an all-Ireland league, we should keep the number in the top flight to 16. The second tier could also be a national division with 16 teams, but that is a different debate. What is important is that there realistic chances for teams in the second tier to gain promotion (like four relegaion/promotion spots, 2 automatic, 2 playoff).Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
In my ideal scenario we'd have;
1. An 8 team All-Ireland League, 4 teams North and South & 2 religation Spots
2. Lower Divisions North and South with 10 teams in it, 1 Promotion Spot
3. The lowest divisons with 8 teams in it, 2 promotion spots...
:o :o :o
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
Buller - are you mad ?? An 8 team premiership ?? There's no reason in the world for one to be that small. How many times would you look for teams to play each other? Even if it was 4, which is more than enough, the season would only run for just over 6 months !! And that's ignoring how dull and repetitive it would be. Having the top tier that small would only be bad, bad, bad for the game.
There's currenttly 58 senior teams on the island of Ireland. Admittedly, a number of those are mickey mouse (Ballinamallard United ? Coagh United ??), so could do with being weeded-out back to Intermediate level. However, there'd easily be at least 40 decent teams to place within a 2 -tier pyrmaid structure. A Premier division of 16 teams, with 2 First divisions of 12 each run along 'north-south' geographical lines (i.e. not just NI and ROI split). 2 relegation spots from Prem, top one from each of the regional first divisions automatically promoted, and a play off involving the 2 second placed teams in the regional firsts in a semi, with the winner playing the 3rd from bottom Prem team in a promotion/relegation final at either Lansdowne, Windsor or Turners Cross (depending on the finalists).
Only technical issue I can see with the above is what to do if, say, 3 Northern teams get relegated form the Prem, whilst 2 of the 3 promoted teams from the Regional Firsts are Sothern ? Must be some easy way of sorting this out to maintain 10 teams in each Regional First (re-distribute the teams along the best north-south split ?), as regional leagues work well in England (e.g. Conference North and South).
I like what your saying, its what i've been thinking for ages... only one question........where what galway united be,,,north or south?Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
If there's 10 teams lower than them geographically, then they'd be North. Otherwise they'd be south :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
Seems the only sensible way of doing it I think. Having a permanent geographical split between the divisions would cease functioning after 1 or 2 seasons of relegation/promotion.
so your saying one year we could get promoted from the southern 2st division and later get relegated into the northern 2st division,.....wierd....but sounds good,new oppostion, so long as we can play sligo :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I like your optimism :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
Wierd I know, but can't see it working any other way apart from a 4-way Provincial split, which just wouldn't work.
Unfortunately teams in the middle of the country far from Dublin (i.e Galway, Sligo, Longford, Athlone) would be in the 'no-man's land' that could ebb and flow between divisions dependent upon location of the other teams in the First Divisions. Would certainly make it more interesting than playing the same teams all the time tho, and if one division was particualrly tough, you could always prey for a shift into the other one... :)
I don't see any reason why this regional idea can't be done without IL teams. Why not invite senior teams (who are not LOI teams) to join a regionalised First division and then you'd have a bigger premier. Down the road if an all Ireland league comes about then you can accomodate them, but for now start with the ROI teams.
Crowds in our league aren't great as it is. In most of the First Division they're brutal (Mons, Limerick, Athlone, Kilkenny, UCD/Dublin City). Bringing in new unestablished teams into a smilar second tier structure would probably just see more clubs with brutal attendances and do little to really advance the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
We've got 22 teams in the EL at the moment. Although there's a distinct Dublin bias, I think that's about right as a number (maybe 24 as a max, if a Kerry and another Connacht team looked to join). Any significant expansion beyond this number should only take place in the context of an all-island competition, as you'd need something to create sufficient exposure/interest around the change to have any chance of it being a success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
Have to disagree here. The standard between the two leagues is vast , as Im sure the Setanta Cup will show.
I'd put the Irish league on a par with our 1st. Div.
you could split the league along east west lines. have east coast teams in one first div, everyone else from central and west region in the other group.
Not sure an east-west split would make sense from a travel-cost point of view ? Ballymena/Larne/Coleraine v Waterford ? With the majority of clubs in the country in Dublin and Belfast, you'd have some fairly wierd geographical split in the country trying to balance the numbers. The line would probably have to start at Ballymena or somewhere east of the Bann, skirt along Belfast, but separating it from Lisburn, run down west of Newry, Louth and Dublin, splitting Kildare off from the Dub teams, and finish down at Waterford, with Kilkenny possibly in a different division. One league would have teams making either seriously short cross-town/cross-county journeys or major north-south expeditions, whilst the other league would be scattered over about three-quarters of the island...Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
It would also split-up more traditional rivalriies than a north-south split - would be ridiculous to deliberatly not put Derry City in the same region as Linfield, Glens, Coleraine etc. With a north-south split, the only traditional rivalry I can see getting split could be Galway-Sligo, though to be fair to both teams that rivalry's as much of a case of 'let's dislike our nearest team' as it is a genuine time-developed heart-felt hostility a la Rovers-Bohs, Arsenal-Spurs, Celtic-Rangers.
ah sure we'd be in the prem while sligo try and figure out if they are north or south of the border for the 1st division....Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
much in favour of the north/south splitt
Keep dreaming............. [SIZE=1]Galway United[/SIZE] forever in our shadow :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
There are far too many teams in the IL. They have 40 teams for a population of between 1.5 and 2 million. The ROI has a population of 4 million so then if we followed the NI example of teams for population then we should have 80+ teams. If the IL dumped at least half of their teams then I think they would improve. I don't agree that IL is on a par to our 1st Division as i think the top 6/7 in the IL top flight could hold there own in our Premier Division..Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
As for the Setanta cup, Linfield, Portadown and Glentoran are currently the top three teams in the IL and they will be well up for the Setanta cup (prize money and getting one over on the LOI) so I think some people might be shocked by the IL teams.