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Should they be released from prison if IRA say they gonna stop all activities?
From what i've read irish courts have said they can't be released under Good Friday Agreement deal. Now SF/IRA trying to link their release to new "final" deal...
IMO if they got out under Good Friday Agreement that would be ok as couldn't do anything about but linking them to final final settlement is completely wrong.
Yes. I don't see why IRA murderer's in the Republic should be treated any differently to those in the North.
However, the Government should be criticised for giving (yet more) promises it was never going to keep. (unfortunately the majority of the irish population will forget about it once they cash their SSIA money).
Thought the Irish Courts said they did qualify, but it was the decision of the Justice Minister/ Government to release them so they couldn't interfere?Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Maybe i misread it. As i said if they leggaly allowed to be released under Good Friday Agreement then they should be let out straight away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
On the other hand i'd be 100% opposed to IRA essentially blackmailing irish government under guise of final final solution.
Government promises are political matters & carry no weigh legally. Should be lot of opportunities for opposition to use it against FF though.
If it brings Sinn Feinn and The Doc's men together and moves things forward, well,let them out.The goal posts have been moved now and the only way is forward and if thats the only stumbling block after all these years of voilence and killings,well it's time to move on.Release them .
Obviously, but too many people will forget by the time of the next election, get swept up in the FF spin. Kinda ironic considering the criticism of the yanks over Bush...Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Two points: 1/ according to the Little Green Book or so we are told, the defence forces of the Republic of Ireland and it's police force are not so called legitimate targets. 2/ They were supposed to be in a ceasefire in June 1996 so had no business engaging in armed activities of anykind including robbing post offices. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
So fookin what? If it had been some cop killed in the North at the same time they would've been out a long time by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
I'm sure that Green book is a great comfort to the innocent civilians killed in the North by the IRA and the loyalist paramilitaries.
I'm no supporter of the Sinners, but we can't have it both ways (ditto refusing to accept the Sinners in Government, whilst expecting the Unionists to do it up North).
But how many times are the IRA gonna say its over? Wasn't the Good Friday Agreement supposed to be the solution to ceasation? 80%+ of people in the Republic voted on the IRA decommissioning every last weapon but it hasn't happened...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin12
I in no way condone what those people did, but many families suffered in the north when the killers of thier police men were released.
I think that they should be released eventually as part of a deal to finally get the Assembly and Executive up and running, but the Government should squeeze all than can out of the IRA before they release them.
I don't remember that vote,I remember voting to change the constitution alright but nothing about firearms.Is it not Mr.Paisley and his cronies that have previously put a hold on the Good Friday agreement on a number of issues :confused:
I'm no supporter of them either but they were never technically at "war" with this State on the contrary their stated aim is to extend the sovereignty of our state to the entire island. It is a subtle philosphical difference and an example of nitpicking but nevertheless a distinction in the so called canon of the republican movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Think it's pretty sad that a load of murderers had to be let of out Long Keash go a cheering crowd in order for 'peace'.....I know i'm pretty young so missed a lot of this but people are talking about the feelings of the families and letting killers out just rubs salt in the wounds.......as has been said they were on 'ceasefire' at the time and it's against the Ra's constitution........if it's against their own rules then they shouldn't be let out uner GFA....or even a 'final' deal.....they were armed robbers who shot offices in the Republic and should be treated as such
Well said !Quote:
Originally Posted by liam88
With moves on decommissioning afoot I think that SF will go full tilt to get them released, it would be used to show the more hardline members that even if decommissioning happens SF has not forgot their support base.
I don't condone either what was done by those people on either side of the border. However any actions performed in the 26 counties are not covered by the term "armed struggle" or "battle for national self-determination", cause down here Irish people are governing Irish people by consent of the majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by crc
And if we don't like this lot we can elect an opposing shower to take their place. Our gardaí are not by SF/IRA's own rule book legitimate targets. Although I do not like having to use that term.
Northern Ireland's Police are and have been armed and had some chance of defending themselves in shooting situations, Gerry McCabe and Ben O'Sullivan were unarmed and shot at point blank range. A subtle difference I know but nevertheless a difference.
you got to ask yourselfs if they had raped someone would/should they still be allowed out? the bottom line is here at the moment in dublin sinn fein/ira are commiting crimes around dublin robbing dublin port smuggiling cigs spying on politicans in the republic of ireland is this legal no this is meant to be a democratic party but it has its own private army spying robbing murdering our own citizens how much more apeasement of thier illegal activitys must we put up with so that they can have their own way ? only last week a leading member of sein fein ,niall binead, with close ties to the idiot td aengus o'snodaigh and he protests is innocence even though he was caught with stun guns cs gas and garda uniforms plus a list of TD'S names and their movments, also they had a list of drug dealers names who they were trying to extort money from . come on people do you really want these people in goverment they say they are trying to free the 6 counties more like trying to take over the other 26
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if you look at the sinn fein constitution i cant find it online but i read it a few years ago it says in it THAT THEY DO NOT RECOGNISE THE DAIL AS THE LEGITAMATE GOVERMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND AND THAT IT IS AN ILLEGAL GOVERMENT
Also they they do not recognise the irish army as the protectors of this island they belive they are ,hence when they issue statments it is signed oglaigh na hEireann which translates losely translates into irish army if that is not an act of war on thier behalf i dont know what is
and also for any idiot that thinks the ira and sinn fein are not the same have a look at the sinn fein website and explain why they are selling ira t-shirts
i would love to see this island united by the proper means but
there is no differnece between the murder of margeret hassan
and the murder of 2 kids johnathan bell and tim parry that were murdered by the ira bomb that went off in warrington
before you vote for sinn fein or try to justify their actons remember them
r.i.p
Obviously an emotive one in Limerick but no way.
The Republican Movement are still heavily involved in criminal activity - smuggling in Dublin Port, racketeering etc.
The killers have shown no remorse and they recently claimed that Jerry McCabe was gunned down in revenge for the death of Hugh Hehir shot by the guards when trying to rob a post office in Clare. Note they actually made no attempt to take the money that day.
I totally disagree with their release as any part of a final settlement.
I base this on a couple of items, but I'm open to correction on this..
Obviously, the IRA were on ceasefire at the time.
The IRA disowned these men in the immediate aftermath of the botched robbery. Firstly they said the men weren't in the IRA and when this was proven, they said the robbery wasn't scantioned by the IRA. Then the cheeky *******s want to release them as part of the settlement. That's wrong, IMO.
There was no need to murder that man on that day. Everyone knows that post office deliveries are aided by security convoys. Usually every Thursday. Those IRA men were prepared to murder a member of the police force in order to further the gains of IRA. **** the *******s, let them serve their time.
On another level, the IRA using Irish Government money to live and to fund their activities is something I will never fathom, this is the country they love so much they would kill for it and yet through Social Welfare and PO robberies and such like rob that same very country of wealth accumulated by honest
[font=Arial]endeavour.[/font]
On another point, how much time do these men have left to serve?
That's what an ordinary joe here thinks, not that I profess to know much about it.
The Republican Movement is also involved in the illegal shipment and movement of rubbish and hazardous material. This is usually cross-border shipments and involves dumping in any convenient location.
Not only do they destroy lives but also the environment, countryside and water quality of a nation they profess to defend.
no way in hell. the killings that happened in the north were part of conflict. what happened in this case was cold-blooded murder and nothing to do with any armed struggle. plus they were disobeying IRA orders. they are cowardly filth and should be left rot.
totaly agree with you eanna who the hell are these scumbags to insist that these murdering terroists who are no better than al queda be realesed bertie the appeaser ahern said during the week that scum fein/ira wont do a deal unless they are released they are, now trying to hold a sovergin state hostageQuote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
and what kills me is that scum fein/ira are always bleating on about peace even though the international monitoring commision has constantly said up to last week that they are still commitng extorion racketering and enlisting membership.
these scumbags see no need to chose between thuggery and democratic politics because they have been allowed to do both it must stop these people are moraly bankrupt.
il give you an example
a few weeks ago their was a vigil outside leinster house for the 100 or so women murderd in ireland over the last few years of which scumbag o snodaigh td for scum fein said the goverment should do more to protect women and how we should support the minutes silence around the country.
When asked about the women murdered by scum/ira he had no response obviuosly he was only remembering the women not murederd by the scum fein/ira.
this was taken from the sunday independent archives
i urge you to read it to gauge the depts of scum fein/ira hypocrisy and contept for the law abiding people of this island
SF's O Snodaigh 'forgets' women butchered by IRA
JIM CUSACK
A CALL by Sinn Fein's Aengus O Snodaigh for a minute's silence in the Dail to mark International Day Opposing Violence Against Women has been dismissed as an act of stunning hypocrisy.
O Snodaigh referred only to women murdered in the Republic since 1996, and made no mention of any of the women murdered by the IRA during the Troubles. O Snodaigh said the step should be taken in memory of the 106 women murdered in the country since 1996 and in recognition of the ongoing pervasiveness of violence against women in Irish society.
"These statistics are positively horrific and demand urgent action. I am convinced that if these statistics reflected a level of violence directed against any other group it would be treated as a national emergency," he said on Wednesday.
However, Fine Gael Senator Brian Hayes said yesterday: "Aengus O Snodaigh, who is now known to associate himself with convicted IRA members, has no credibility speaking out on the issue of violence against men, women or children. There is a responsibility on all constitutional politicians to take issue against the stunning hypocrisy mouthed by these people week after week. They simply have no credibility when it comes to the issue of violence."
Senator Hayes said that Sinn Fein had still to distance itself from "people who were directly responsible for murdering women from west Belfast", referring to the widowed mother of 10 children, Jean McConville who was abducted from her home by an IRA gang, taken to south Armagh and tortured before being shot dead and secretly buried on Templetown Beach in the Cooley Peninsula.
The list of people killed by the IRA during the Troubles is littered with the murders of women either intentionally or indiscriminately in bombings or shootings.
Among those deliberately targeted and shot dead was the Derry woman, Joanne Mathers, who was collecting census forms during the 1981 hunger strike and was shot in the head by an IRA gunman at the door of a house where she was collecting forms. Mrs Mathers, 25, was married with one young son. Another young mother killed by the IRA was Caroline Moreland, 34.
She was abducted, taken to south Armagh and tortured for almost a week and then taken to a lonely Border road and shot through the head. Miss Moreland, a single mother with a young daughter, was accused of beingan informer by a senior IRA man who was later himself suspected of being an informer.
At the time she was murdered Caroline Moreland was receiving treatment for cancer from which she was unlikely to survive. The IRA team that killed her knew of this at the time. Another young west Belfast woman who was shot dead after being accused of being an informer was Catherine Mahon, 27, who was shot dead in September 1985 along with her husband Gerard.
An IRA team led by the infamous 'Border Fox', Dessie O'Hare, also shot dead a young Protestant woman, Margaret Ann Hearst at her family farm in south Armagh in October 1977.
Miss Hearst, a single mother of a three-year-old girl, had taken up work as a part-time member of the Ulster Defence Regiment. The IRA gang shot her as her daughter was asleep in a cot and then fired shots into the cot, narrowly missing the child.
And the IRA in Fermanagh shot dead a 21-year-old Protestant woman, Gillian Johnson in March 1988 apparently because they wrongly suspected she had become engaged to a young man who had joined the Ulster Defence Regiment. It turned out her fiance had no connections with the UDR.
The IRA unit that murdered Gillian Johnston was led by a woman who later emerged as a member of Sinn Fein. Another young woman deliberately shot dead by the IRA was Mary Travers, the 27-year-old daughter of resident magistrate, Tom Travers, as she and her father left St Brigid's Catholic Church in south Belfast in March 1984. Miss Travers was shot dead by an IRA gang that included a close associate of Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams.
imo scum fein/ira are murdering hypocrites facisits
personally, I was very close to voting Sinn Féin at the last election. mainly because i agree with them on a lot of things. but I could NOT bring myself to vote for a party who are backing these mudering filth. If FF and the PDs agree to their release, they are as bad as SF if not worse. I can't see any person with an ounce of integrity voting FF or PDs if they release these vermin back on the streets. There is no excuse, no justification and there never will be. No spin, babble or politic-speak can excuse an act of treachery like releasing these people. releasing them would be as good as telling people that its ok to shoot members of law-enforcement as long as you have a political party behind you.
They should certainly be released if it means a deal being struck. Negotiations means compromise and no doubt some compromises can be difficult, I cant imagine how Mrs Mcabe feels but in the long run it might be the best thing. Im amazed reading this thread, but its like people dont realise the amount of innocent nationalists killed by the brits/ruc security forces and loyalists with the aid of these security forces behind them, most of whom never even did as much as a day behind bars. Cant you imagine how the family of these people feel? Murdered by the state and it all bein covered up. This is not republican propoganda, but fact.
Regarding the GFA, there has been I believe, 3 acts of decommisioning, but the brits have yet to keep there promise, i.e,demilitarisation has not been nearly fully carried out, nor has reform of police, nor has all the all ireland bodies been implemented. Decommisioning has been used, and used very well by the brits/unionists as an excuse to slow the process of power sharing. As a point of info, not that it matters, but the IRA was actually off ceasefire between feb 96 and july 97.
i cant belive your defending these scum bagsthey shot 2 cops while trying to rob a post office not fighting british soilders they were breaking the lawQuote:
Originally Posted by Rovers Fellow!
your twisting the story to suit your own facist mind this not about what the brits have done to us, its about scum fein/ira bleeding this country dry with extorion murder and intimidation and holding the law abiding people of this country hostage to suit there own facist agenda, alot of people want to know when is the appeaser ahern going to say enough is enough or will he keep giving more like neville chamberlain appeasement dosent work with these people they have to know if you break the law in this country you have to pay no matter what facist party your from
so people its ok to rob banks and murder the people entrusted with our safety if your a member of scum fein/ira :mad: :mad: :mad:
Everybody here was disgusted when they saw the brutal pictures of hostages being executed in Iraq.
At least in most cases the Iraqis seemed to treat their "prisoners" fairly well until they were beheaded. What made it disgusting for most people was that they videotaped the executions.
Does anybody think that someone like Jean McConville was tortured "humanely" by the IRA. What would your opinion be if you saw that on video.
The fact is the actions of these men was directly as a result of the conflict in 'Ireland', its very easy to brush the troubles off as a Northern problem. I am not saying what was done was right, indeed the green book does forbid the killling of free state forces. But what the broader republican family see from all this is that if there was no conflict here then these men would not have been carrying out a robbery to fund their army. Therefore nobody would have been killed. Its not going to bring the man back to his family and it was wrong, we all agree on that, but to sperate this killing from the other 3,000 is wrong.
I think people seem to underestimate the importance of all this, you dont seem to realise what the Provos are doing is seen by an increasingly number of republicans as treachery, and Adams etc are actually taking serious/risky steps for their political strategy to move forward.
My opinion is that of a person who never lived in the North, even though I visited there about 20 times and made some friends there, some Catholic, some Protestant.
I believe that what happened in Adare can not be justified by any historical context. No matter how much a person supported the right of Catholics to fight against just the system which characterised life in the 6 Counties, the only connection between that fight and the outrage in Adare is the IRA membership of the men who attempted the robbery.
No way do I accept the retro-fitting of the killing of Garda McCabe with some sort of republican respectability. Even the IRA themselves distanced themselves from the affair at the time, as another post above correctly stated.
But I do agree with the four men benefiting from some early release deal, if this is the price to be paid for peace. This is not a moral position. It is strategic on the part of the two governments. All armed conflicts are horrible, really bad things go unpunished, and people on all sides are left knowing that they did not get justice. Anne McCabe is one of those people. It is a bitter, bitter pill to swallow, but she is not alone. Ian Paisley is about to go into a power sharing government with people he says he hates. I hate the thought of early release for the Garda killers, but I accept it, and that is why I vote yes in this poll.
Personally, it sickens me to see any murderer, North or South, republican/loyalist, getting any reduction in sentance, and to be given the mask of being some kind of "freedom fighter" or "defender". However, I did vote for the GFA, and was fully aware that this was one consequence of my vote. IF it has been found that releasing this people is part of the GFA, then they must be released, providing of course that these same people fulfill their obligations under the GFA.
On a slightly different note, I feel that Ahern and particularly O'Donoghue should be ashamed of their role in this "episode". O'Donoghue took every opportunity to loudly, and at length, proclaim that these murderers "WOULD NEVER BE RELEASED". IF Ahern and O'Donoghue didn't want them to be released, they could, a long time ago, have told Adams and McGuinness that it was never going to happen and it was off the table, never to be discussed, and they could like it or lump it. Allowing it to be still there as a concession, so long into these talks is a very poor reflection on the FF and PD "negotiators". It's because of all the bellowing from O'Donoghue that it seems so much worse now. Of course anything that Ahern and O'Donoghue said/did is trivial compared to the sickening actions of the IRA, but they must take some of the blame for the outcry now happening.
(btw, this is not me simply having a go at FF, I just feel that Ahern, O'Donoghue and McDowell have handled this issue in a genuinely appalling manner)
yes, in terms of that conflict. I do differentiate very much between these murders and the murders that took place in the 6 counties, because of the nature of this incident. it was cold-blooded murder of someone who got in the way of a robbery that wasn't sanctioned by the IRA itself. would anyone like to explain how that forms part of the conflict? its as good as saying the Omagh bombing was part of the conflict too :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Because the money they were stealing was going to fund the IRAs operations. And yes, Omagh was part of the conflict. You just cant disregard those events that happen to be extra bloody as not relevant. Thats absurd.
Eanna, how do you think that the torture and murder of Jean McConville fits in then? All she did was comfort an injured British soldier outside her door. She showed a bit of kindness and was tortured and her body dumped never to be found again.
without going through every case individually, I wastrying to make the point that the conflict was tkaing place in a certain part of this country, and Limerick was not considered (by many people) to be included as a battlegroundQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Whats that got to do with the question being asked in this poll ?Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
How does the murder of numerous children by British soldiers/state fit in too ?
Theres no point in highlighting individual cases. Im sure if my son or daughter was murdered by state forces id not be happy about the IRA surrendering weapons either.
I think the biggest reason to oppose any release of these murderers is the way the IRA are blackmailing the irish government & discontinue their "army" until the irish government does what they want. Would such an agreement include the end of all the criminal activities from smuggling to extorsion...? I'd be very surprised...
Not answering for Eoin, but I reckon he's shooting a hole (no pun intended) in the arguement that McCabe's killing was markedly different from many killings (on both "sides") in the North. Well that's my reading anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Never become a general :rolleyes:
Maginot Line.... around..... german offense.... spring to mind
Well thats my belief, macy. Those killings werent any different. Murder is murder. The IRA still engages in illegal and criminal activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I wonder what is really going on here?
Dortie may be close
Despite what you may think of Adams et al. they are far from stupid. This is not an issue that they want to be debating in public - among other things its bad for their election strategy in the 26 counties. I suspect that the whole peace process is hanging by a thread and I think its going to collapse due to pressure from the extreme of both sides who are not interested in compromise.Quote:
I think people seem to underestimate the importance of all this, you dont seem to realise what the Provos are doing is seen by an increasingly number of republicans as treachery, and Adams etc are actually taking serious/risky steps for their political strategy to move forward.
Incidentally, I have very little doubt that this wasn't a robbery gone wrong. I think (OK with no evidence to back me up) that the point of the 'operation' was to kill the two gardai.
Should they be released? If its part of the peace process then, however unpalitable, yes.
It sounds like the DUP and Sinn Fein will come to agreement tonight.
Ian Paisley wants to be able to view pictures of the arms being destroyed which i think in all honesty is a quite legitimate request.
If there isnt agreement there will be another election. In that case i cant see SF doing as well as they did in the last NI election .