Squad announced for Croatia

From fai.ie:

Shay Given (Newcastle Utd) 20/04/76 65 0
Nick Colgan (Barnsley) 19/09/76 8 0
Paddy Kenny (Sheffield Utd) 17/05/78 3 0
Alan Maybury (Hearts) 08/08/78 9 0
Steve Finnan (Liverpool) 20/04/76 33 1
Kenny Cunningham (Birmingham City) 28/06/71 62 0
Stephen Carr (Newcastle Utd) 29/08/76 35 0
Andy O'Brien (Newcastle Utd) 29/06/79 17 0
Gary Doherty (Norwich City) 31/01/80 29 4
Richard Dunne (Manchester City) 21/09/79 20 4
Gary Breen (Sunderland) 12/12/73 61 7
Matt Holland (Charlton Ath) 11/04/74 43 5
John O'Shea (Manchester Utd) 30/04/81 18 1
Liam Miller (Manchester Utd) 30/04/81 6 0
Kevin Kilbane (Everton) 01/02/77 58 4
Andy Reid (Nottingham Forest) 29/07/82 12 2
Graham Kavangah (Cardiff City) 02/12/73 8 1
Alan Quinn (Sheffield Utd) 13/06/79 5 0
Graham Barrett (Coventry City) 06/10/81 5 2
Aiden McGeady (Celtic) 04/04/86 1 1
Damien Duff (Chelsea) 02/03/79 48 6
Alan Lee (Cardiff City) 21/08/78 7 0
Jon Macken (Manchester City) 07/09/77 1 0
Stephen Elliott (Sunderland) 06/01/84 0 0
Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur) 08/07/80 56 23

No Harte, then. But O'Shea won't make it so maybe he'll get a call up later; Stack over Colgan again; McGeady in, and presumably Elliot might miss it and Clint will take his place.

I'm happy to see Stephen Elliott and Aiden McGeady (obviously) in the squad but Nick Colgan? :confused: Sweet Mother of Mercy. :rolleyes: Is it not time to bring Graham Stack in at senior level instead?

:ball: PP

Good to see some young blood coming through but a shame about Eliott. I really wanted to see him play. I cant see morrison playing with that injury which is a shame because he was looking like the real mc coy in Paris !

Miller , Reid, Mc Geady. Are these going to all end up on the right hand side ?

I hope Kerr doesnt have his favourites. Hearte is doing the business out in Spain and has played in every game so far for Levante so obviously the manager out der must rate him. So do I. His biggest problem was the lack of confidence and it wouldnt do any harm to see what he is capable to do now. not having hearte in this squad is my biggest complaint tbh.

I really wish we could look at squad players beyond the likes of Quinn, Barrett, Colgan, Lee and Maybury. I know they wont ever start but we surley have better, these will never add anything to our side imo.

Morrison's back in training already, and looking to be back against Everton on Saturday. Bruce might be happy to see him out for an international

bit ****ed off that harte isnt included cos it seems like discrimination for some1 moving "abroad"

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Originally Posted by JimmyP

From fai.ie:

Shay Given (Newcastle Utd) 20/04/76 65 0
Nick Colgan (Barnsley) 19/09/76 8 0
Paddy Kenny (Sheffield Utd) 17/05/78 3 0
Alan Maybury (Hearts) 08/08/78 9 0
Steve Finnan (Liverpool) 20/04/76 33 1
Kenny Cunningham (Birmingham City) 28/06/71 62 0
Stephen Carr (Newcastle Utd) 29/08/76 35 0
Andy O'Brien (Newcastle Utd) 29/06/79 17 0
Gary Doherty (Norwich City) 31/01/80 29 4
Richard Dunne (Manchester City) 21/09/79 20 4
Gary Breen (Sunderland) 12/12/73 61 7
Matt Holland (Charlton Ath) 11/04/74 43 5
John O'Shea (Manchester Utd) 30/04/81 18 1
Liam Miller (Manchester Utd) 30/04/81 6 0
Kevin Kilbane (Everton) 01/02/77 58 4
Andy Reid (Nottingham Forest) 29/07/82 12 2
Graham Kavangah (Cardiff City) 02/12/73 8 1
Alan Quinn (Sheffield Utd) 13/06/79 5 0
Graham Barrett (Coventry City) 06/10/81 5 2
Aiden McGeady (Celtic) 04/04/86 1 1
Damien Duff (Chelsea) 02/03/79 48 6
Alan Lee (Cardiff City) 21/08/78 7 0
Jon Macken (Manchester City) 07/09/77 1 0
Stephen Elliott (Sunderland) 06/01/84 0 0
Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur) 08/07/80 56 23

No Harte, then. But O'Shea won't make it so maybe he'll get a call up later; Stack over Colgan again; McGeady in, and presumably Elliot might miss it and Clint will take his place.

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and no Roy Keane either?

I take it Mr. Kerr is one stubborn man - Most are certain that Harte has more to offer than Maybury, and Delap has the multi-positional skills to have a place somewhere on the squad, no? He'd be useful on the bench for most games, I'd imagine...No Roy is no shock though...Also seems that O'Shea is listed with the midfielders....Hmmmm....

Not happy with this squad.

No Delap is unbelievable for reasons mentioned in a separate thread. Must be more to it all than meets the eye.

Maybury over Harte is hard to justify too.

Barrett isn't even a regular at Coventry.

Colgan doesn't merit a place in any international squad. I wonder is Stack's exclusion anything to do with his trouble with the police?

R Keane and Morrisson have been rested.
Maybury ahead of Heart is a bit of a joke. Even if O'Shea is not fit Kerr is probably still not going to call Harte up because he has named a squad of 25 to cover for any injuries.
Barrett and Quinn ahead of Delap is a bit of an insult too. I mean WTF has Barrett done? He's not even first choice at Coventry :confused:
He's never going to get anywhere near a starting 11 in a competitive game unless we have about 5 midfilders injured or 3 or 4 injuries up front.
Delap is the kind of player he should be looking at for this game. We are not exactly overstaffed with top-flight CMF players. With Keane out we have Kavanagh, Holland, Kilbane, Quinn and Barrett to chose from. Surely Delap is worth a shot?
I'm glad to see Dunne back, he couldn't really be ignored anymore :)
Breen is one lucky SOB that there is no stiff competition for the 4th CB position in the squad.
And Colgan who is the wrong side of 30 and going nowhere in a team in the third league in ahead of a very promising 22 year old Stack :mad:

Edited to say I was writing this when Stutt88 wrote his post :)

My, we are a fickle bunch. It wasn't too long ago that Harte was being derided from all quarters for being in the team due to McCarthy's stubborn nature and his propensity to include favourites such as Harte, Breen, Kilbane and Kennedy despite an obvious lack of ability in their positions. He was at fault for so many of our conceded goals and the ability to take a decent free kick and corner doesn't excuse this. He added something going forward, granted, but that doesn't make up for being a rotten full-back with neither pace nor concept of marking. I don't think he has a place in this team because I don't think he ever proved himself as a decent full-back. He may find it a bit unfair that he isn't in the squad but, to be honest, I don't miss him. I don't wish to be too harsh on the bloke as, similarly to Kilbane, he seems to love playing for Ireland and was never of the type to put club over country. I just don't think he's a great loss. I can understand the argument in terms of Harte vs Maybury for the back up full back but anything else seems pointless. Fair enough, Levante are doing well but the Spanish league is notoriously top-heavy and seems to be going the way of the Premier League with major clubs concentrating on the European competitions. Again, I've nothing against the bloke but I can easily see why Kerr would forget about him. Maybe he's undergone a Kilbane-style renaissance, in which case he's worth another look.

Delaps omission is real mystery, obviously somethin behind it. If he was uncapped and born in England we'd all be ravin about him.

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Originally Posted by Don Vito

Delaps omission is real mystery, obviously somethin behind it. If he was uncapped and born in England we'd all be ravin about him.

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I thought he was born in England...but a very good point. Even stranger thing is that he's been called up regularly over the last few matches but the clown always got injured. Why has he been left out now that he's fit again? How perfectly queer...

Not sure of his background but basically what I was tryin to say was that if he was a Macken type case we'd all be crying out for him to be selected in the squad. Think people will understand where I'm comin form-clear communication isn't my strong point!

You're spot on, sir. If he was a Macken or Morrison type who had never played for us before, we'd be gasping for him. As he's always wanted to play for us, the level of interest isn't there. Shame, really, he's a good player.

So what's behind it then? Why hasn't Delap been chosen? Anything in the papers?

The only logical explanation that Kerr can have is that he won't remove players from the squad unless they do something to warrant losing a place out of loyalty. However, that leads to another argument, wouldn't Delap keep his place after returning from injury, given he was in the squad before? I still feel he's a better bench option than Doherty, or BOTH Holland and Kav, all of whom were on the bench against France, I believe.

Finally, with Maybury, If he were 19, I don't think he'd be a star on the U21's. I haven't seen him since his days with Leeds, primarily as a MF, but he was no great shakes then, either. How people can automatically prefer him (who most likely hasn't been seen in Scotland by the great majority of board members recently) to Harte (ditto about being seen in Spain by board members) is hard to fathom. After all, Harte is a fixture on a good defensive side in Spain. If he was the same Harte of two years ago, I imagine he'd be eaten alive by the Liga wingers. Why not have a look, and find out? And wouldn't O'Shea seemingly be listed as a MF bring further credence to Harte's inclusion

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Originally Posted by McCanada

The only logical explanation that Kerr can have is that he won't remove players from the squad unless they do something to warrant losing a place out of loyalty.

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If that's the case than that is complete and utter rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Barret? Quinn? They have both not made it at division one level in England and aren't even automatic choice for their clubs in the lower leagues ffs. It's an absolute bleedin' insult to Delap to be left out in favour of those eejits, no two ways about it. It wouldn't suprise me if Delap retired soon, which would be terrible to see and Kerr could blame nobody but himself.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

If that's the case than that is complete and utter rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Barret? Quinn? They have both not made it at division one level in England and aren't even automatic choice for their clubs in the lower leagues ffs. It's an absolute bleedin' insult to Delap to be left out in favour of those eejits, no two ways about it. It wouldn't suprise me if Delap retired soon, which would be terrible to see and Kerr could blame nobody but himself.

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That's exactly my point....based on merit, few would agree that Barrett, Quinn, Lee, etc. fit the bill. But perhaps because they have been loyal soldiers in the past (at all levels) they are in. Who knows?

With Delap's situation with the Ireland squad I can't help wondering if Leon Best is looking at this and that might be influencing his uncertainty for playing for Ireland. I hope I am wrong.

Delap should be in the squad ahead of Quinn and Barrett.

Im really getting p!ssed off with Kerr and his favouritism. Left-back is a problem position for us. We have a left-back playing out of his skin with the team that is coming third in the best league in the world. Harte has played every game this season for Levante. Also, Rory Delap has arguably been the form Irish player over the past month. He could add so much to our squad. As Don Vito pointed out, if he was uncapped, we'd be mad to have him playing.
Nick Colgan is on the bench at Barnsley. Its not like we dont have alternatives. Graham Stack is possibly our second best goalkeeper. As someone pointed out already, Barrett doesnt always get his game at Coventry. Kerr will bring about his own downfall if he continues to bear grudges. At least Richard Dunne's form is so immense that he is forced to include him.

Lads. I'm delighted to see allot of you are as bemused as I am.

I'm confused to the point of being annoyed at Kerrs selection policy. I presumed to this point that Kerr was operating on a basis of loyalty and 'reciprication of commitment' from the players who have played under him thus far. The result being a team of players full of work and commitment who actually want to play for their country and each other 100% and not just 'go through the motions' during internationals.

And while I agree that club form shouldn't be THE deciding factor in Internationals it most definatetly should be A factor. This doesn't seem to be the case for Kerr. He seems to operate on a 'Man in posession' theory whereby it's not Ian Harte's option to win his place back, but for Alan Maybury to loose his place in the squad via maybe a disastrous performance or maybe a withdrawel due to injury etc The same applying to Delap and Barrett. The obvious exceptions to this rule being the big guns like Keane, Duff etc

Something I have to admit that I agree with on some level but I assumed up to this point that it would only applied during competitive runs and that anyone who showed impressive club form inbetween would be given a platform during the friendlies to state their case. Only fair in my mind.

It's an interesting theory Kerr has but I don't think it will work in practice. It will it feel most definately pay dividends by removing complacency. Baring in mind that the likes of Latvia, Slovenia etc are getting results sgainst decent opposition by catching the big name players on the hop with saheer work rate and application. But it could cost us a crucial point or two agianst the real quality.

In Harte, Delap and arguably Steven Reid we have three players playing reasonably well (by all acounts admittedly cos I haven't seen much, only read)and regularly ,when fit, at the top level. Their positons being held by Maybury and Barrett, the latter spending allot of time on the bench at a midtable club in a mediocre league. I can't understand it or justify it.

Some of the lads seem to be paying the price for missing out on the series of freindlies during the summer.... Does Kerr question the nature of their withdrawels?? Will there be consistency in this selection process down the line??

The man know football so it's not for me to question him? I just hope it works out long term and that when/if these lads work their way back in that they're fired up after being ignored for so long.

One point though is that on this message board people have also questioned the inclusion of Alan Quinn, which i think is a little unfair as he has been excellent any time i've seen him lately.

In fairness lads, some of ye are really getting hot and bothered about some really trivial selections. At the end of the day, the guys ye are referring to - Harte, Delap & Stack - are nothing more than 3rd choice back up's. Yes, I would feel sorry for Delap, in particular, as he has'nt had a look in since the playoff matches against Turkey.

But in fairness, both Graham Barrett and Alan Quinn performed very well against the Dutch in the Summer. And for me, thats reason enough to include them in the squad. Who gives a f*ck what club they are playing for - as long as they produce for the green? I don't think its much of an argument to hold 'first division' tags against them.

Thats one man's view

SKBIO-TOR

Delighted to see young Elliot and McGeady included by the way.

I saw them kicking ball for the Under 21's against Cyprus in Buckley Park. Elliot, in particular, impressed me. An excellant outlet for through balls, swift turn of pace, an eye for goal. Doing well with his club. This kid could well have a future in the international game.

Touch wood.

SKBIO-TOR

No one is holiding the level against them. Only their status within that level. Some of our most committed players played in the second tier in the past and that was never an issue for me so long as they done the busines. But the positions these players currently occupy in the squad are problems positions within the team structure.

Harte for example is the only natural left footer playing regularly at left full available to us. Neither O'Shea or Maybury have truly convinced in a position that has been a week link of late. Obviously Harte hasn't convinced at times either but when that is the case club form should dictate weather he's entitled to a platforom to state his claim. Fact is O'Shea is the man in posession of the left full role, and rightly so. Harte's club and international experience warrants a place in the squad at the very least. It will be very interesting to see what happens when O'Shea withdraws.

And considering our issues in the centre and on the right of midfield delaps exclusion is also puzzling. Fact is the right side midfeild is up for grabs. And while Andy Reid and Steve Finnan currently the front runners they have by no means cemented their place. So it should be an open battle amongst the best available options.... For me Barrett is not categorised in that.

And less obviously the centre is also a problem. While Kilbane has done well of late, who among us expect him to stay there long term, knowing as we do his tendency toward erratic form. Something that will be highlighted in the middle more so than on the wing. Kilbanes form ensures he is also the man in possession, but who can say with any certainty who comes in when he's off the boil or unavailable. And as much as we're looking at who to play alongside Keane, we have to look to who can play instead of him given his age and recent spate of injuries. Surely Delap should be considered on that basis alone.

The Irish team is very much in a period of transition still and aside for Given, Carr, Cunningham, Roy, Duff and Robbie there's arguably places up for grabs. Kerrs current selection policy while admirable in theory narrows our options down the line in practice. On some level you have to look beyond the next 90 minutes and freindlies are the ideal platform.

The 'man in possesion of the shirt' argument holds no water for me. This is a friendly, not a competitive game, this is about experimenting and looking beyond the man in possesion of the shirt, not about maintaining the status quo, and Kerr is wasting that by not picking Delap, Harte etc in this squad.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

If that's the case than that is complete and utter rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Barret? Quinn? They have both not made it at division one level in England and aren't even automatic choice for their clubs in the lower leagues ffs. It's an absolute bleedin' insult to Delap to be left out in favour of those eejits, no two ways about it. It wouldn't suprise me if Delap retired soon, which would be terrible to see and Kerr could blame nobody but himself.

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Dudes - Barrett and Quinn played well in the friendlies at the end of last season particularly against Holland remember? Kerr has always said that the lads he brought in did well and sees no reason to leave them out.

Delap seems to be injury prone, I think Kerr just got tired of calling him up for him to cry off injured. Anyhow he never impressed playing for Ireland under McCarthy.

I don't think Harte merits a call up yet as he rarely put in 100% for Ireland in his last 20 apearances, let him wait and get good and hungry.

La Liga is only a couple of months in and suddenly everyone is crying for Ian Harte's return. Like I posted earlier, one of the worst features of McCarthy's era was his fixation on certain players who he knew were completely loyal to him but never really performed. Harte has never really impressed at international level. This is not a vendetta against the bloke but I think he got into the Ireland team as he was one of McCarthy's 'babes' such as Kilbane and Breen and never had to perform well - he was always guaranteed his place. If he was good enough, Kerr would call him up. Whether or not he eventually makes it back in, he certainly has no right to expect to be called up. I still remember him as the terrible full-back who played rotten in the World Cup qualifiers and the World Cup final and the general consensus was that he didn't deserve his place there. Call for his inclusion, by all means, just don't complain when we concede some mickey mouse goal from an easy cross because he's decided to mark himself instead of his opponent. For example, see Ireland v Germany, Ireland v Spain.

I thought that's what he was doing up to this point by excluding them from the competitive games!!....

Donal.....He's more to offer the Irish set up than Alan Maybury is all I'm saying. No one reckons he's Ashley Cole.

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Originally Posted by Donal81

If he was good enough, Kerr would call him up. Whether or not he eventually makes it back in, he certainly has no right to expect to be called up. I still remember him as the terrible full-back who played rotten in the World Cup qualifiers and the World Cup final and the general consensus was that he didn't deserve his place there. Call for his inclusion, by all means, just don't complain when we concede some mickey mouse goal from an easy cross because he's decided to mark himself instead of his opponent. For example, see Ireland v Germany, Ireland v Spain.

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spot on Donal... and he was at fault for the two goals in the Swiss match in Basle (the first one). Maybe there are other reasons that he is not being picked that Kerr doesn't want to get into, and we should respect Kerr for that. No point on being great defender at free kicks and corners if you can't defend or be arsed getting back into position and tracking your player

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

The 'man in possesion of the shirt' argument holds no water for me. This is a friendly, not a competitive game, this is about experimenting and looking beyond the man in possesion of the shirt, not about maintaining the status quo, and Kerr is wasting that by not picking Delap, Harte etc in this squad.

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Harte has over 50 caps ffs, and you want him to be picked as an experiment?

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Donal.....He's more to offer the Irish set up than Alan Maybury is all I'm saying. No one reckons he's Ashley Cole.

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That's how I'd call it, though Harte over Maybury doesn't irk me as much as Colgan over Stack.

Colgan's inclusion isn't a big deal on the face of it as 3rd choice 'keeper never figures in a competitive scenario. But I'd have Stack in there for the experience. Rewarding a journeyman the wrong side of 30 isn't exactly an investment in the future.

I also think Alan Quinn justifies his place. I've seen him a few times and think he looks pretty good.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Donal.....He's more to offer the Irish set up than Alan Maybury is all I'm saying. No one reckons he's Ashley Cole.

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That's fair enough Dr Peepee (never thought I'd be writing that sentence) and I didn't say that you did. As far as I'm concerned, Harte lost his place in the squad and a couple of games in the notoriously unstable La Liga shouldn't automatically reverse that. Criticise Alan Maybury all night but I don't see how Harte is any better or has anything else to offer. If Harte has learned how to mark his man, then he deserves a call-up. If he's still slower than a rainy weekend in Limerick and marking is completely anathema to him, leave him there until he gets better. Good free kicks are all well and good but I don't think Harte has scored enough of them to make up for all the ridiculously easy goals we've conceded as a result of his inadequacies.

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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

Dudes - Barrett and Quinn played well in the friendlies at the end of last season particularly against Holland remember? Kerr has always said that the lads he brought in did well and sees no reason to leave them out.

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I see a reason - We have vastly superior players sitting at home twiddling their thumbs instead of these guys.

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Harte has over 50 caps ffs, and you want him to be picked as an experiment?

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Well not really, I don't like or rate Harte, but he's still far better than Maybury and always was. Maybury is Harte minus the good free kicks/corners/crosses/passes. I don't want to see Harte start for us, but he should provide cover at left back ahead of Maybury. Hopefully someone better than either of them comes along though, as neither inspire me with confidence.

Incidentally, what the hells going on with O'shea? He's out for two months due to an operation, why is he in our squad in the first place and why hasn't he pulled out yet? :confused:

As regards the Maybury Vs Harte thing. Maybury is a bog standard defender - no better than Harte defensively and no where near as good in attack. He's looked poor to me especially against Poland so what does he need to do to be dropped under Kerr's selection policy? Cost us a game?

Looking at players in action on weekends, there have been a couple of weekends when Barrett hasn't even made Coventry's first 16!! I tihnk Barrett has been excellent for us in recent performances but he's not playing first team football. These things matter. When will Colgan ever be dropped if he never plays. Can't fail if you don't even play.

Happy though to see Elliott, McGeady, and the Honey Monster in there though.

Lads we can all have a good look at Harte on Saturday night. Deportivo V Levante is live on sky sports on Saturday night. Kick off 20:30.

• Ian Harte will come up against Real Madrid next weekend if I'm not mistaking. His performance against them should give a guide as to how far his form and confidence has risen since he left Elland Road. What Maybury has is that he can play in both full-back positions, plus along with some of the undermentioned players, he came up through the ranks with Kerr. Its bound to affect Kerr's thinking.
• I would have liked to see Rory Delap included, his versatility, plus that long throw in, could be invaluable. Doesn't bode well for him that he didnt even make it for a friendly.
• Quinn is making steady progress, deserves place.
• Barrett played well against Holland but failed to make the team last night for Coventry, nees to get regular football now to improve.
• Colgan would find it hard to get a club in the EL to employ him. Stack has to come in sooner or later. Seen him play a number of times and he's steady.
• McGeady has done nothing to suggest he is ready for a senior international yet. Its now or never for Macken.
• Elliott great prospect. Dunne has been immense since he got his act together.
• Stephen Reid has the disadvantage of not playing under-age football for Ireland under Kerr

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

• Stephen Reid has the disadvantage of not playing under-age football for Ireland under Kerr

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Agree withmost of your points apart from the quoted, Reid started Kerr's first game and impressed, I remember commenting with a little balance on the left (i.e. Duff - Kilbane started that game) we'd have destroyed them.

Reid's just back from a fairly heavy injury and is probably better off with his club at the moment than playing for us.

And apparently Kerr has been in constant contact with Reid throughout his injury.

I personally think Finnan has the RHM spot to lose now and from what I can remember, much as I like Reid, he and Carr have no unerstanding together on the RHS.

I expect Reid will figure again before long, as long as he is playing well for Blackburn. At least under Hughes he's playing in his proper position. Under Souness he started mainly as an emergency right-full.

I don't see the harm in trying McGeady out. Elliott's the one I want most to impress though.

Question: did Stack ever play at any level under Kerr, or was it under Givens only?