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If it came to it, and we qualified for the intertoto, would people want to enter it, or turn the place down and concentrate on domestic success?
My personal view is that (At best) the intertoto is good publicity, but has ruined our season and would do so again. I'd turn it down flat.
Just for the fact that the players have to raise their game against teams that play a totally different game to our leagues football if you know what i mean. For that alone is it good entertainment value as a punter.
Also the success that we had in the summer helped raise the profile of the club, not just to the general public but to the would be sponsors of City. It is alot easier when City are doing well in the league, it hits all the local press/media etc. but when in Europe the coverage is more National. That scale of exposure for any company is very attractive and making selling City as a product alot easier.
Also, other players .... across the water or where ever, look at the opportunity to play in Europe either for the experience or to put themselves in the shop window. The possiblity of playing in these kind of games must appeal to any player, hopefully the better ones are the ones that end up at the cross.
Also .... players in the system right now, junior clubs, schoolboys, munster senior league where ever, see that City have games in Europe and it is something to strive for, a place on the team when the chance comes around. If it keeps players in our league longer than at present then it has to be better for it overall.
Also ... five years ago ... turning down the chance to play in Europe, you would have shunned if you suggested it "c'mere la, will ya listen to you're man there'la, turn down Europe ... what fúckin' planet is on ?? He is wan pure goul like !!" ...... Have we really gone and stuck our heads in the clouds in that time. :eek: :o
I said Yes, but with doubts.
It is good from all angles of looking at it, except for the fact that the players get wrecked, and the fixtures pile up. It is a PR dream, no doubt about it-it's a great marketing tool, it attracts fans, it's great for the club .
However, it is not so great for the team-they enjoy these games, but i'm sure they'd have swapped the Intertoto glory(or at least some of it) for a bit of an easier ride the last few weeks. We have been done over by the FAI, but that will happen again if we enter the Intertoto.
IMO, the goods just outweigh the bads, so Yes. :ball:
I'd play in it no problem-it fills up the Cross and earns the club extra revenue.
The players should be focused on domestic success and a few extra games SHOULD not be affecting the rest of the season.
The European hangover is a myth created by managers and the media to excuse under performing teams IMO, and therefore European football is vital, but come on guys, we want better don't we? Lets not settle for Inter22, we want UEFA cup or better surely?
Agreed. A team shpuld not be affected by 6 games for almost 3 months. When you consider we had a sucessful European venture we should be doing a lot better this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by ccfcman
Well I know for a fact that Nissan have said their sponsorship was well worth the money this season simply because of the european odyessy. So, that shows that from the commercial side of things we need to be in Europe and if it's the inter toto then we have got to take part.
Also, the experience the players gain from it is so so valuable and we can not afford to give that up.
And the fans enjoy the away trips too!!
We need to be in Europe and the inter toto is better than nothing. I actaully can't believe there's one or two people who wouldn't want to enter it.... it makes no sense.... what the hell are you thinking? It's for the betterment of the club.... we NEED european football!
i love seeing thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Colm
odyessy
Surely European football is what all the players want, everyone wants the big games and experiences. I don't think the problems in the league were necessarily a result of playing in the intertoto, it was more to do with other issues. I don't think you can turn down an opportunity like it.
While the whole odyssey ;) was a great experience, personally I wouldn't be too keen on it.
But the club have to enter it from a financial point of view.
How come Shelbourne playing more games, against better teams, in a more important competition hasn't ruined their season then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
If we're aiming to be a professional successful club we should be in some European competition every year.
If the club decides it can't cope with the extra games and doesn't play in Europe when we qualify then what's the point of being in the league at all ?:confused:
Our league form before the Intertoto was pretty ropey as well so you can't just blame the euro run for our poor league position.
We're not going to reach a consensus on this and ultimately it will be Brian Lennox's decision, not ours (which is definitely a good thing!!). But as you've brought Shels into it, here's my tuppence worth. Yes they played a lot of matches, but their matches were spread out. They didn't experience a huge backlog of fixtures. They didn't get what we got from Merrion Square - plenty of verbal plaudits and then a revised fixture list that was a complete joke. If there were written guarantees given to the club as regards rearranging fixtures to accommodate us THEN it would be worth considering. Otherwise it would be a significant threat to our chances of challenging for the league next season. Also people have mentioned the money we made out of the whole thing. well just to be pedantic and remind ye, we haven't seen a red cent of the prize money yet and won't till next summer. Yes we got three full houses at home out of it but if we were going well in the league we'd be getting crowds of over 5000 at the Cross for every home game instead of the way it has fallen off. Plus we had the farcical situation of no home games for nearly two months, courtesy of said fixture list and Merrion Square's inability to manage it in any sort of fair or equitable manner. Lennox had to keep finding the cash to pay the lads' wages every week even though there wasn't any money coming from gate receipts. so financially speaking it wasn't all a bowl of roses. Personally I think it EXTREMELY UNLIKELY (sorry for shouting!) that Merrion Square would do anything other than d*** us around again next season, not because of any vendetta against City but simply because their position won't change. They will insist on fixtures being played as soon as possible. I'd love to think otherwise but that's the reality. I don't want our season being derailed again, I want us to be able to focus properly on challenging for the league and thereby qualifying for either the UEFA Cup or the Champions League. We need to keep progressing. Going back into the InterToto Cup, a competition without a future, does not represent progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by paudie
You made a few good points Gandhi.
However I don't think the club did itself any favours by postponing so many games during the intertoto run.
I think the only game during the run we played was the home one against Bohs. And Dolan was giving out about having to play that!
Like a home game on Saturday, another home game on Tuesday night and an away game in Sweden on Sunday evening is too tough a schedule for a mostly full time first team squad.
I don't know what the ins and outs were of the clubs fixture negotiations with the FAI were. No doubt the FAI didn't do us any favours but the club gave the impression that it was completely focussed on the intertoto while we in in it. Everything else was on the back burner, the arrangement of league games included.
Its a bit rich for the club to then say, when we're out of Europe, "the FAI should have been more helpful with fixtures, even though we didn't give a **** at the time ourselves"
If you look back at this forum during the run there was very little debate about when league games were to be played and the club seemed to fall in to the same trap.
If anything another Intertoto run would give the club a chance to show they've learned from this years mistakes and they'll know now not to take crap from the FAI either.
If we qualify and don't enter it will be like saying "We couldn't cope with being successful in Europe last year. We're not going to try to do better this year, we're going to ignore instead."
Not a great sign of further development of a successful soccer club.
the club would be mad to ever turn down a place in europe. it means so much to the players and fans, i didnt get to travel this year but i hope to next year.
its also one of the best ways to attract investment.
thanks for the laugh lads !!!
turn down europe for league success??
ha ha ha thats a great one,,,
your not half arrogant are you?
cork were the same as they were last season as this season and the intertoto games didnt ruin anything for you.. As shels have proved you can easily do both. Just because you dont have the players to win you the league doesnt mean you refuse the intertoto in an attept to make you do better in the league??
Are you lot really serious?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Successful clubs dont need to blame extra matchs for a lack of success. If we are to have a proper well run club there is no reason why we cant compete on all fronts. Also, we didnt have an exactly huge run in the cup to distract us in the league.
After last nights league games qualifying for the UEFA cup is a very very realistic option. Let Bohs or the Drogs worry about the Inter-toto.
I voted yes but with caution. Thinking about it again though its simply yes.
If a club is striving to be professional then it should be able to play at home and in Europe. Shels have set an example to follow. Most clubs should be trying to emulate Shels. Cork City should be doing better than the inter to to.
The only Cork F.C or any club can improve itself as a team, sponsorship or public profile is in Europe, so they should be jumping at it.
I suppose you're on a wind up? Maybe you're not, I'm not sure whether to take you seriously or not. I've contributed to this thread a few times and I do't recall once saying league success was a foregone conclusion if City avoided the distraction of the intertoto. I think it takes a colossal effort to win the league and the more focused a team are on it the better their chances, also the fewer distractions or difficulties, the better their chances. If you think that's arrogant you're weird :DQuote:
Originally Posted by higgins
If you are just here to slag off City and say our players aren't good enough well whatever. Banter is always welcome provided it's funny :p Better luck next time
just going back over a few points raised.
1. Shels managed it because the Champions League game are midweek, so they didn't have to cancel any league games, we did- leading to fixture problems etc, which I do believe has messed our season up.
2. The financial benefits of entering the intertoto as opposed to winning the league and being in the champions league the following season? Doubtful I'd say.
3. It has damaged our season, did the same to rovers last year and to pats before that- 3 consecutive years is enough to make ya think.
Anyway, as I was at pains to point out, I'm not against playing in Europe, just playing the Intertoto. Why should we accept a competition thats regarded as second best?
Well obviously we'd all prefer to be playing in the Champions league or the UEFA cup but in the event that we don't qualify for either then the Inter-toto is a far far better prospect than not playing in Europe at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
All those point have been made by dodgy jounalists. The last point is an old hang-up that simply isn't true, IF City intend to be a professional club as Eoinh said. I think we should get over it to be honest.
Quote:
Why should we accept a competition thats regarded as second best?
How can any eircom League club regard this as second best ??
Remember .. it is the eircom League now, a league that has been on its knees for years. Not worth talkng about ..... now it is turning a very slight corner and we want to give up on a European competition. I wouldn't if it were a forgone conclusion and eL teams stonked it home every year and now we are not bothered.
While there are better teams in that comp. then it is in our interest to play in it.
i think not playing in europe is a far better prospect than playing in the Intertoto- just a matter of opinion i guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
3 years in a row isn't an untrue hang-up, its evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
the club needs europe and will only gain more experience playing in the intertoto than not playing in it at all
Pats and Rovers are and were both sh!t and didn't and still don't have the resources to cope with the demands of such a hectic schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
They would both have struggled in the league regardless of them being in Europe.
We have the resources to cope and if you really look at it closely the inter toto did not effect our league form greatly. Apart from the loss to Bohs in between the 2 Malmo games I don't think it effect any of our games. Can you think of another league game (don't mind the cup) that we lost because we were playing in Europe?
The European hangover is a myth.
Anyone who seriously think that we should not play in a European competition is seriously lacking ambition. Could you imagine trying to entice a player to sign for the club and saying "we won't be able to offer you the chance to play Euro football because even though we qualified for the inter-toto we aren't going to bother playing in it".... they'd run a mile!
Whatever about Shams, but that SPA team were the same team who had won the league the previous season (Marney and Livingston affairs to one side), and managed by Pat Dolan. A league winning team doesnt go to crap in one season, if it didnt have some distractions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
Ya, coz we would hate to win the cup :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
Anyways, the point is fairly moot, as even if we do qualify this season, it will be the last Inter Toto ever.
I know I'll probably get slated for this but I think the cup has been majorly devalued in recent times. It seems that only the small nothing clubs care enough or try hard enough to actually win it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GWA
I mean look at the last three finals.....
Waterford v Longford..... two small clubs with poor teams and poor support.
Longford v Pats..... see above
Derry v Rovers..... two clubs with the potential to be big but are not up to much at the moment.
Obviously I'd like to win the cup but it wouldn't compare to winning the league. Would anyone have swapped this years Euro run for a cup run? I doubt it, I mean going to Sweden, Holland and France and playing good teams in excellent stadia is a lot more valuable to the players, fans and clubs finances than say going to Athlone or Monaghan or Belfield and playing in front of 400 people thus depressing the fans and demoralising the players.
Doing well in the league and having a good Euro run should be our priority every season imo, a cup run is nice but not as important.
Ild agree with that. Thats not just true of Ireland but of all European leagues, i feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
It may be de-valued, but surely we should be vying to win the thing every time. Its not like we are accustomed to cup success. We can de-value it all we want after we have won it a few times, until then, no.
I would easily trade our Euro run for a cup final date vs Waaherfurh at the end of the month any day.
Voted,yes no doubt.The european run did effect our league form but I knew this would happen.
I loved every minute of the european run and hopefully we will repeat it next year in the uefa cup if possible,but I would never turn down th intertoto cup.
I certainly would have swopped the Intertoto for beating Limerick and UCD in the Cups. Had we overcome those two particular giants of European football then we could have been looking at a real shot at the league cup (with the final possibly at Turners Cross) and a decent FAI Cup run, including a number of games at Turners Cross (remember UCD drew Drumcondra in the next round). If getting through two rounds of the Intertoto is so valuable then surely a run to the FAI Cup Final would be worth much more? Doing well in the league and bringing some silverware home should be the priority every season imho. Europe is all well and good but at the end of the day the Intertoto is Mickey Mouse stuff and, to re-iterate what GWA said, I'd much rather a crack off either Waterford or Longford at the end of the month in the final. Obviously UEFA Cup and Champions League would be a different proposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
spot on stadler. there's no point winning a few games in europe and doing nothing at home- if our domestic cup record had been as good as our european record we'd probably have a trophy to show for it at the end of the season, and I think that would count just as much for players we're trying to attract
Concentrate on the League and go for the Champion Leauge and UEFA Cup, then the exposure willl be better for the sponsors. Inter toto my arse..
I'll prob get slated for it but I'd have swapped the Euro run for success in the Cup.
Granted City got a few bob from the gates and respect for the el but come the end of the season we have f*ck all to show for it-at least ifd we won the Cup we'd have had silverware and a place in the UEFA Cup(possibly a place in the Setanta Cup as well-not too sure if cup winners qualify)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
2 very contrasting posts. one from a city fan on foot and 1 from a waaaaaaaaherfur fan on btidQuote:
Originally Posted by from btid
shows who really is the biggest club in munster :D
Gan dabht ar bith.
Money matters, and while Lennox said it mightn't have been such a gold mine, the publicity and enthusiasm about the city probably brought a few more back-sides to the cross on a regular basis + Sold many more jerseys etc. The gist of my point being, European competition means more than prize-money and gate revenue.
The inter-toto cup was the best part of our season. Some people seem to think that if we didnt participate we would be doing better domestically. There is no evidense to support this, we played our best football in Europe and we are only disappointed with our league form now because we havent been able to replicate our European form in the league. If people are talking about a European hang-over, they should question the players and coaching staff, not the European competition.
You wanted to know why you should settle for 2nd best?
Well its fourth best really...
and im not being smart as was suggested :mad:
Cork have not been inside the top two in the league for years and to suggest that accepting the intertoto is settling for less then you are worth is rubbish.
St Pats and Rovers didnt go anywhere near europe this year and well, look at them now. I dont think your performances in europe had anything to do with your poor league form after it as someone stated already it was similar to your form before and also similar to that of the past few seasons..
I agree that expectation was raised at cork this year through new players and the big mouth of PAT :p but its like that at most clubs and you should not believe the hype until its reflected on the pitch..
I think Cork would be mad to refuse the Intertoto spot...
Your no lille but just look at what they are doing having come through the intertoto??? top of the french league and into the group stages of the UEFA Cup all because of the team spirit and fitness gained in the intertoto..
You make your own bed and if your league form isnt good i suggest you look elsewhere as europe is not the problem