Let's Forget Basle

I know a lot of people were downbeat after Basle. However, I think we should be in optimistic mood going into the game in Paris. Arguably our three most important players are the two Keanes and Duff. Against Switzerland all three players were returning from injury. None of them were match fit and none of them played near their potential. Since then, all three have played plenty of football and showed some promising signs. In addition to these, Steve Finnan has played well for Liverpool on the right side of midfield. Clinton Morrison has got a few run-outs with Birmingham and scored in the League Cup. All our players are reasonably match-fit, with the exception of Holland and Miller. We have a clean bill of health, touch wood, at the moment.

On the other hand, the French would appear to be in disarray. Theve've lost a number of experienced players through injury and suspension. Of the players that were involved in Euro O4, only the likes of Gallas, Silvestre, Henry and Pires? will be involved on Saturday. I know they still have some top class players to call upon. However, there is a difference between good club players and experienced international campaigners. I remember when we played Holland a few years back, people were raving about the likes of Marc Van Bommel and Hoffland prior to the game. Both players froze and had little impact. It could be the same with some of the newcomers to the French team. The French will be forced to start with a relatively untried and untested midfield. This can only be to Ireland's gain.

Another thing in Ireland's favour is hunger. Against the Swiss, we seemed to lack the requisite motivation. Despite our previous defeats to the Swiss, I still believe that both our players and supporters look down on the Swiss as a major force. The Swiss seemed to be the team showing the committment. Psychologically, our players were not prepared in the same way as they will be on Saturday. Against the French things will be different. I can see us battling and competing for every scrap. Our usual "put em under pressure" game that was absent against the Swiss will surely be in evidence against the French.

All in all, we're in much better shape than we were four weeks ago. We have the experience and the hunger to topple a weakened French team.

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

All in all, we're in much better shape than we were four weeks ago. We have the experience and the hunger to topple a weakened French team.

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Some good points Mr. Prime Minister, however I don't think we should be getting too excited about the French losing some players. We have to remember that they are still a quality team, they qualified for Euro 2004 and with a 100% record. True they've lost a few key players but there's still plenty of quality there. At some stage during this group the French are gonna come out fighting, there will eventually be a backlash to all the negative publicity and some team will get the whipping of their lives, lets all just hope that this backlash is a result of a whipping from the Boys in Green!!

Personally I dont want to forget basel, I dont want an Irish side to forget any of the very graphic lessons that the swiss taught us. The team was lacking in fitness, organisation, fight, and hunger to win.

1, our defence is still a mess. We suffer a major problem with Cunningham's lack of pace against the likes of Henry who is in the best form of his life. Partnered alongside him is O Brien who time and time again has been picked out for ball watching. Thank god we have a good keeper. He will be flat out making saves.

2, The problem at left back continues, O Shea will probably fill the role. A defender who cant make tackles and regularly passes balls to the oppostion. As for the right back Carr. No one can argue that he isnt playing as well as he used to. I would go on from this and say he has issues with the irish set up.

3, our midfield is really lacking in quality and mobility. Roy Keane will be static most of the game and combined with Mr Invisible it leaves a lot of space open to the french to play the way they want. It was pointed out on the BBC that Roy Keane wasnt closing people down like he used to, it meant that O Shea had to deal with 2 players all the time (which ended up costing Man Utd the goal).

Duff is world class but the french will be marking him off the pitch. Reid wont be fit for this, finnan should be solid enough.

Up front Robbie and Clinton can have their bad days but I think we can rely on them to score some of the chances. Clinton looks like he wants to make an effort. Robbie has yet to show that he is REALLY trying.

I'm not going to start jumping on the band wagon and start beliving all the media hype about how we are really going to get a win. The same drivel was being spun the week before basel. As soon as that match begun, it soon became apparent that the team were spinless, lacked any real will to win, no nerve, hunger, pressure tatics etc.

I can see a few movements by the french at the start with the likes of Henry that would "carve" the defence up and leave us 2-0 after 20 minutes.

We will be lucky to come out of Stade de France with a draw.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

As for the right back Carr. No one can argue that he isnt playing as well as he used to.

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I can, he's been superb for Newcastle whenver I've seen him this season and for Ireland nobody has more assists than him under Kerr. And what "issues" do you think he has with the Irish set up exactly? As I said before, there's no evidence to back this whaffle up at all. He rarely misses matches, never moans publically, always gives 100%, never shows any signs of discipline problems whatsoever and him and Kerr have showed no signs of not getting on. Where has this rubbish about him come from? A few articles from Hyland, possibley one of the worst journalists I've ever read and that's being kind, seems to be it.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I'm not going to start jumping on the band wagon and start beliving all the media hype

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You believe a lot more than you should in the papers mate.

I'm going to once an for all clear this Carr "waffle" up.

Firstly, from an article you posted on boards.ie:

But something else happened on the eve of the match that was fuelling the rumour mill. At the pre-match press conference Stephen Carr had been named in the team but by the time the game kicked-off the following evening he was back in London. The explanation that he had sustained a knee injury in training didn't cut ice with one Sunday tabloid that splashed the headline 'Kerr Faced Players Revolt' on its front page.

There was absolutely no truth whatsoever to that," says a still indignant Kerr. "What actually happened, and started something going in the media, was that Stephen Carr had trained that morning and trained well. He got a bit of a knock in the training match and I was actually beside him when it happened. At the end, he had ice on it and typical Stephen he said he would be alright.

"I went and did the press conference and you journalists were asking me what was I going to do and I said Stephen Carr will play right back and Alan Maybury will play left back. I told you who the full backs would be to give you a bit of something to go on. Later that evening Ciaran Murray, the physio, rang me while I was looking at a video and asked me to go and see Stephen because he wasn't great.

"Stephen said he had had trouble with his knee before and knew it wasn't right. We talked it through and he said he didn't want to risk it because he had too much coming up and I said 'fine'. He wanted to get back to the club and I said 'right'.

"He came back to me and said there was a flight at nine in the morning and asked what time he would have to leave to get to it. I said 'about half six' so he asked could he go to his ma's, which was near the airport, and I said 'yes'. He grabbed his gear, ran out, and some of your colleagues were still sitting downstairs when Stephen went out.

"Then it comes out that he had a row with me. There was absolutely no truth in it. I actually have very good relations with him and all of them. As I said before, I don't do rows with the players. I don't do disagreements. If I have something to say to them, we say it and we move on.

Do you think Kerr made all that up on the spur of the moment? He certainly wasn't expecting to get that question 6 months after the speculation. If he was making that up surely there'd be something in the papers. There isn't because they have no evidence and nothing to say. There is nothing suggesting that Carr is having any more problems than Shay Given or Kenny Cunningham so stop believing the paper garbage.

Secondly, his peformances. His job is to defend and get the odd assist or goal every now and again. He is doing a fantastic job going forward and has yet to be at fault for a goal. I said this in another thread, when he didn't start against Turkey the 2 goals we conceded came from crosses from our RB position.

Jolly, I honestly think its crazy that you judge Reid and Carr on one game.

Andy Reid, obviously has a lot of talent but he is playing in the wrong divison. he really needs a move to the priemership in January. I would start him against the faroes Islands but does look out of his debt against good oposition.

I read that article eirebhoy, thats what kerr says fair enough. Half the stuff in the media is ******** anyway and I dont belive it.

Personally I think Carr has a lot of ability but I still remain unconvinced about his motivation. He was playing a lot better a few years ago. A good solid performance in Paris would change all that (if he plays) but I still remain unconvinced.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I would start him against the faroes Islands but does look out of his depth against good oposition.

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Ok. Other than the Swiss what are you basing that on? Brazil? Czech's? Romania? Bulgaria? Holland?

1, our defence is still a mess. We suffer a major problem with Cunningham's lack of pace against the likes of Henry who is in the best form of his life. Partnered alongside him is O Brien who time and time again has been picked out for ball watching.


This seems to be a popular opinion about cunningham as i've read on other threads, i think its very unfair on the man, I'll agree that Henry would leave him in the dirt regarding pace, but Henry would do that to any defender no matter who they are or whatever experience they have. I highly regard Cunningham, he has a great defensive brain, has a great organisiational sense, does not rush into tackles - times them well, he has determination, strength and a passion to play, he is consistent with his performances with both Ireland and Birmingham, he may not be as regarded as world class but two things he has going for him is that he doesn't make too many mistakes and rarely gives the ball away when passing out of the defense.

For Saturdays game I think he will do a fine job on Henry, he may not have the pace to keep up with him but i think he has the intelligence to work around that obstacle.

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Originally Posted by Colm55

1, our defence is still a mess. We suffer a major problem with Cunningham's lack of pace against the likes of Henry who is in the best form of his life. Partnered alongside him is O Brien who time and time again has been picked out for ball watching.


This seems to be a popular opinion about cunningham as i've read on other threads, i think its very unfair on the man, I'll agree that Henry would leave him in the dirt regarding pace, but Henry would do that to any defender no matter who they are or whatever experience they have. I highly regard Cunningham, he has a great defensive brain, has a great organisiational sense, does not rush into tackles - times them well, he has determination, strength and a passion to play, he is consistent with his performances with both Ireland and Birmingham, he may not be as regarded as world class but two things he has going for him is that he doesn't make too many mistakes and rarely gives the ball away when passing out of the defense.

For Saturdays game I think he will do a fine job on Henry, he may not have the pace to keep up with him but i think he has the intelligence to work around that obstacle.

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Spot on Colm, pointing out that Henry may be just slightly quicker than our defence and saying it's a measure against Kenny Cunningham is a bit pointless. Henry runs rings around any defender in the world when he's on form. What we have to do, and this is where Cunningham as well as Keane and Finnan will be vital, is to prevent him getting the ball and getting into space. Once he does that, we're buggered. Also, if a player of Henry's quality decides to score against us, there is simply nothing you can do about it, he's that good. If we stop him getting the ball and get stuck into him from the start in the mould of Kevin Moran and Mick McCarthy against the Spanish in the 1990 qualifying campaign, we can overcome him. It will be tough but it's doable and Cunningham has kept a few class strikers fairly quiet in his time.

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Other than the Swiss what are you basing that on?

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Im basing that on friendlies and competitive matches. Most continential teams treat friendlies as meaningless. They try 2 or 3 things with players, like does 2 players play well together etc. The result is worthless. Over here we think getting a win in a friendly is worth something.

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I highly regard Cunningham, he has a great defensive brain, has a great organisiational sense, does not rush into tackles - times them well, he has determination, strength and a passion to play, he is consistent with his performances with both Ireland and Birmingham,

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I hate to be negative about this current Irish team but I didnt see much from the irish defence against the swiss and cyprus that inspried me. We are defintely going to concede a couple of goals, maybe even 3. Its up to Ireland to score than many if we realistically want to come away with a point. I cant see this game being 0-0 or 1-0 to ireland.

Before this descends into an argumentative thread :

In the last 4 months France have failed to beat Greece (ec), Israel (wcq), Croatia (ec) and Bosnia (friendly at home) !! Their three victories have been England (2-1) , Switzerland (3-1) and the Faroes 2-0

Why should we not go there with a great deal of optimism ? what makes us any worse than those sides ? But for Zidanes intervention against England that would be 2 wins in 7 matches !?!?! Are you telling me that our right back/centre midfield/centre forward isnt better than their Bosnian or Greek counterpart ? Would we be quaking in our predators at the sight of the industrious israeli left midfielder whose just signed a years contract with a top Cypriot first division side ?? come on. :mad:

25,000 Boys In Green on the sidelines , we might as well be playing at home !

Carr/Cunningham/Obrien et al. The debates are a waste of time. These people could play the games of their lives on Saturday - why shouldnt they ?

As for 'Henrys Pace' well , unless Maurice Greene has an irish grandmother who in world football can live with Henry.

Get it right up 'em from the off !

I shall be rounding up names of the non-believers and I expect full and frank apologies on my desk Thursday morning when we are top of the group !

As for the JamaicanPm - Shame on You !! What on earth are you playing at trying to install some optimism on this forum ??

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Originally Posted by wallis

25,000 Boys In Green on the sidelines , we might as well be playing at home !

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Good God, I hope not, especially if it matches the 'atmosphere' against Bulgaria! :rolleyes:

I must admit, after Basel I was worried when Brian Kerr mentioned that some players "ventured forward too much."

While I welcome any optimism regarding the result, I think that the last two or three seasons have shown that Henry is probably best player in the world. Sure, sure, Arsenal may not do the business in Europe and France may be ropey as anything at the moment but one is hard pushed to think of a player who has that element of all great players in such abundance - the ability to beat any defender and beat any keeper from almost any angle. His goal against Boro at the weekend proved that. I challenge anyone to name a better striker in the world. Ronaldo is great but fades and is temperamental as opposed to Henry's consummate professionalism. If we can stop him getting the ball, we're in with a chance. If we show one inch of the sloppiness which we can show, e.g. all of the Swiss games, he'll skin us. If we can control midfield, which is most definitely within our capabilities, we can stop the delivery to him. Then we're in with a chance. But if we show the same lack of concentration and ball-watching, we'll be hung out to dry, simple as that, because judging by the form that Henry's in at the moment, he'll put away every chance he gets. I know he'll be playing for a different team on Saturday but you don't change from a world class striker to a bad one overnight. I think the game will turn on keeping Henry quiet. Their midfield isn't what it used to be and while it should be respected, it's not the fortress that it once was and nor is their defence. I can't see us beating them but there's no reason whatsoever to lose to them.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Im basing that on friendlies and competitive matches. Most continential teams treat friendlies as meaningless. They try 2 or 3 things with players, like does 2 players play well together etc. The result is worthless. Over here we think getting a win in a friendly is worth something.

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I'm slightly confused with the above.

"I'm basing it on friendlies and competitive matches."

If you are basing it on friendlies, Reid has been our best player in the friendlies from Canada-Bulgaria. If you are basing it on competitive's, he has only played 2, MOM against Cyprus and didn't get much of the ball against the Swiss (he set up Keane 2 or 3 times and he was wrongly accused of offside on all occasion's).

Most continential teams treat friendlies as meaningless.
The Czech's had gone 21 games unbeaten (inlcuding a load of friendlies), they drew away to Italy, beat Canada 5-1, beat Turkey 4-0, France away 2-0, Yugoslavia 5-0, Slovakia 4-1, Italy 1-0. All those matches were friendlies and by the looks of it take them a lot more seriously than us and were trying to keep their unbeaten run going. Did you see Baros when he scored?

Brazil: Cafu was booked for fouling Reid, Roque Junior was also booked in that match. Roberto Carlos had a terrible game and he was screaming at himself for mis-controlling. Dida (the keeper) was seen on a number of occasion's roaring at his defence. They beat Nigeria away 3-0 in friendly before our match and Hungary away 4-1 after our match.

Holland: All I will say is they hadn't been beaten is the Amsterdam Arena since 96 and they were booed of the pitch against Belgium and of course against us. Its not as if any of the players were certain to be in the team for Euro 2004 so they had to play for their place.

Bulgaria: Did you see the time wasting?

Wallis I will gladly excuse myself sunday morning, I for one would love to be wrong. I think we will come out with either a draw or loose.

eirebhoy, I have been judging Ried's display on the number of friendlies that he has made and contrasted that against Switzerland and the fact that he plays in the first divison. I dont think he will be up for the game on saturday, maybe he will get 30 minutes at the end.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Lads, I don't know where all this negativity is coming from. Thierry Henry is a marvellously talented footballer and I admire him very much, not only for his ability but for the manner in which he conducts himself off the pitch. I've never seen him get into any hassle and people like Kieron Dyer could learn a thing or two from a real 'star'.
I just think we have the chance to go out on Saturday and deliver. Big time. I just wish a few more people would have the same faith. (Or are you the people who will sit there, not singing, not chanting, and just watching the minutes pass until you can say "told you so"??)
Rant over. Sing your hearts out for the lads.

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Tuff Paddy, I see where you're coming from and there's a big part of me that can imagine a repeat of Holland at home in 2001. Experience brings pessimism, unfortunately, and while I'll be belting the songs out and won't stop supporting them and hoping for a win, I'm resigned to the opinion that I don't think it's going to happen. This doesn't mean I want it this way but I can't see us beating them. Here's hoping they do, however. I haven't seen this team really deliver yet and I hope they do, this will be Kerr's real baptism of fire. Like I said, if we can contain Henry, we've nothing to fear.

Paddy Power has the match as follows:

France 4-9
Draw 3-1
Ireland 6-1

You gotta think 6-1 is a bit generous.

Bejaysis -I'm not particularly optimistic but i'll have abit of that action at 6/1.

Nothwithstanding Kerrs hints at finding a midfield place for O'Shea still reckon the team will be
Given
Carr-O'Brien-Cunningham-Finnan
Reid-Keane-Kilbane-Duff
Keane-Morrisson

I'm quite pessimistic about this game (no surprises about that :P )

bookies think with the head and not the heart. They want as many people to make bets and try to give as best odds possible.
But equally they arent going to throw money away. I would say its more like 10-1 to win.

People need a reality check here. This is Ireland playing, The team usually gets results by sheer effort and will power, sound tatical decisions as opposed to individual skill. That critical part is something that is lacking and it could be a white wash.

If Kerr comes out of the Stade de France with 3 points in the bag I will be shocked and will be one of our best results EVER in WCQ's.

I'm hoping it was just the pressure he was under after the swiss when he said something like "I was concerned when players kept going forward". Thats something we need to do ! Watching ireland play bent in on itself is not pretty.

If he comes out with 1 point, never mind the performance or how it was got I will be more than happy.

The craic will start if we dont get the point :(

I'd go with....

--- --- --- --- Given --- --- --- ---

Carr --- Cunningham --- O'Brien --- Finnan/Maybury

Reid --- Keane --- Kavanagh --- Kilbane

--- --- --- --- --- Duff

--- --- Keane

Oh and I'll take a draw now! and I for 1 will be singing my heart out in Paris! :ball:

I don't know if any of you read Liam Brady's article in the Tribune on Sunday. He stated Ireland under Kerr have yet to produce a big performance against decent opposition when it really matters ie. Switzerland twice and Russia. I know that it's only three games but three games in intl. football is a lot. These are the 3 toughest games we've had under Brian Kerr and we have yet to produce a real performance. You throw in the 2 performances against Albania as well and it becomes clear that a draw in France would be an excellent result. While we have played well in some friendlies the competitive games are obviously the most important and are what a manager and a team should be judged by and as I have stated above they have left a lot to be desired in the last 18 months or so and even before that in the latter stages of McCarthy's reign. I'm not trying to put a downer on things, I'm looking forward to the Paris trip as much as anyone, but I just think that a bit of a reality check is called for. We had similar talk before the Swiss match and in the end we were hanging on for the point.....just something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by koneinc

I'd go with....

--- --- --- --- Given --- --- --- ---

Carr --- Cunningham --- O'Brien --- Finnan/Maybury

Reid --- Keane --- Kavanagh --- Kilbane

--- --- --- --- --- Duff

--- --- Keane

Oh and I'll take a draw now! and I for 1 will be singing my heart out in Paris! :ball:

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Anything....ANYTHING but Duff up front. We're playing one of the best teams in the world, we don't need to throw them another advantage by wasteing our best player.