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I know it's still a few weeks away, but what do you think the Irish team will be in Paris. Knowing Kerr, I think he'll take the cautious approach, so here's what I'm going for (provided everyone stays fits).
Given
Carr - Cunningham - O'Brien - O'Shea
Finnan - Kilbane - Kavanagh - Roy Keane - Duff
Robbie Keane
What do the rest of you think??
If he does decide to go 4-4-2, I would expect Kilbane to be the one to make way for Morrison.
wouldn`t surprise me if kerr went for 4-5-1 as he is a defensive manager
i`d go for a 4-4-2 myself and try and have a bit of a go at the french.
we don`t seem to be positive at all when we play away from home which is probably the main reason we haven`t beaten a decent team away from home since scotland in 87.
given
carr-cunningham-o`brien-finnan
reid-keane-kavanagh-duff
morrison-keane
i`d leave o`shea and kilbane out. i`d love to see kavanagh clatter into henry in the first few minutes like he did with gilberto in the brazil match.
After last nite i would definitely not have O'shea anywhere near the team, John's not really arsed anymore. Finnan to edge Reid out of the right-side of midfield slot i know Carr looked shakey last time, but he has good defensive cover with Finnan instead of Reid, Midfield probably Kavanagh, I have been disappointed with Miller, average for Utd looked like lightweight boxing in a heavyweight division and then he gets injured and disappears in the reserves
it is early to judge as injuries can (but hopefully wont) happen
4-4-2
given
carr-cunningham-o`brien-finnan
reid-keane-kilbane-duff
morrison-keane
Regardless of what anybody's personal opinion is , Lionel Ritchie's team will probably be the one to step onto the field in the stade de france.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
However if he is a bit concerned and wants to flood the midfield I think Robbie could be the one to give way with KAv lining out in midfield. If you look at the recent press cuttings for the last few games , BK has been very generous with his praise for CLint , probably a lot more so than us on the North Terrace!!!
This is how I expect the team to line out:
Given
Carr Andy Kenny Finnan
Kav Keane Kil
Reid Duff
Clint
The team I would like to see line out is similar. I'm still not sure whether Andy Reid fits into the team at the mo. We were bad on the right hand side against the Swiss and although he had a fine game against Cyprus personally I feel we don't have enough width with Reidy on the right. If that donkey Silvestre starts at left back for France what chances would Duff be on the right wing and Andy on the left????
Kav deserves his chance. He will provide a bit of a bite in the centre. Carr was and has been poor for a while now and if John O'Shea showed any sign of interest in competing in a match he'd be in and Carr would be replaced by Finnan. Hopefully the change of boss at the Toon will get STevie Carr back motoring. But O'Shea is not a left full and shouldn't be considered to be one either. As much as Kilbane gets abused I have a liking for him , more so because of the work that he gets through and the covering he does(when on the wing) which I think will be needed in Paris. Ithink the game may be a step too far too soon for Reidy. Disect this team as you will.
Kingdom Abu
Given
Carr Andy Kenny Finnan
Duff Keane Kav Kilbane
Robbie Clint
So you reckon Kavanagh can catch Henry, I don't think so, unless he does himQuote:
Originally Posted by stickyjoe
in the tunnel before the game.
Well if I have it'll be the first time I've hit anything football related with any degree of accuracy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
:eek: Surely not bothering to leave dublin Airport but instead hurtling oneself through the turbines of the planes revved up engines would be a less painful form of absolute fcukin' suicide? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom
Sadly, I think Richie is correct on the team formation. The French will be well aware of this team as well and won't be particularly concerned about it. What about this for a little wrinkle:
Given
Carr (RB - Can perform when needed)
O'Brien
Cunningham
Kilbane (LB - Can cover ground and will kick Henry at some point in the game)
Duff (LM)
Keane
Kavanagh
Finnan (RM - Playing well at the moment and will link up well with Carr)
Keane (He will thrive in this game)
Morrisson (Evidently is in love with Brian Kerr...supposedly very close with him so will give 100% on the night come hell or high water).
Could we wear them down and bussle a French side low in confidence aside with a team like:
Given
Carr Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea
Finnan Quinn Keane Kavanagh Kilbane
Morrison
Or will we try score perfect goals with a another low tempo performance like against the Swiss and go with:
Given
Finnan Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea
Duff Keane Kavangh Kilbane
Keane Morrison
I would love to see the first team above go out and just harry the French off the pitch :D :D Come on Brian kick it up a notch, we ned to work harder than the opposition.
[QUOTE=1MickCollins]Could we wear them down and bussle a French side low in confidence aside with a team like:
Given
Carr Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea
Finnan Quinn Keane Kavanagh Kilbane
Morrison
:confused: :confused: Are ye mad, leave Duff and Robbie Keane out.
[QUOTE=harps1954]Aye Indeed. Mick pass that bottle of turps over this way when you're done gulping out of it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MickCollins
Seriously we don't have the luxury of leaving argueably our two best players to carry water and orange slices so as to facilitate a system.
To a great extent our player pool dictates the formation and tactics.
Yeah the french'll know it. big swingin' mickey ...I'm sure they'll have countainanced the possible alternatives at Brians disposal too.
No benefit IMO to be had from playing a system we're at best unsure of and at worst unsuited to just to keep the French guessing.
Quit the space invaders mick....and lay off the drugs.....their obviously wrecking your head ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MickCollins
If Kerr puts out your first team.....I'll divin off the Eiffel Tower, head first :D
I see where you're coming from Mick, a Jack Charlton-style hassle and pressurise job and bombard them. Only problem is that we're just not up to that anymore. Houghton, Townsend and McGrath could do that all day long, as could Aldridge and Stapleton upfront. Compare the midfield of that time - full of tough nuts, if not overly skillful - to ours today. It's completely different, unfortunately, and the players just don't play like that anymore.
Well it was obviously tongue in cheek, the second selection is the one I would go with for what little it matters.
I think we have good players but I think the key man is Brian Kerr not Damien Duff or Robbie Keane. Tactics are more important than players so I don't really understand all your fuss about team selections, you know little about how to win games. Talk tactics not players please.
Brian Kerr will either get us to the WC in Germany or he won't, I focus on the manager that is where it is at. The media may claim that Roy Keane dragged Ireland to WC2002 but I think Mick McCarthy has a better claim to that ( and I am not a big fan of Mick ) and a LOT of luck. Just watch that Ire v Hol game in Lansdowne road again, it seems as soon as the whistle blows we put on the rose tinted glasses and claim a great performance.
Given
carr Kenny O'brien O'shea
finnan kavanagh keane duff
Keane morrison
Whats the story with Miller and Holland will they be fit?
Miller probably, but won't be challenging for a first team place at club or country level at this point. Matty H isn't due to be back in first team football until the international break, says Alan Curbishley, so may or may not be included in the squad. Think this is the first time in the history of the known universe the Matty H has got an injury, so I hope to Krishna this'll mean he's a fast healer.
For the France game, me says:
Paddy Kenny
Carr
Cunningham
O' Brien
Johnno
Allah Reid
Keano
Kev
Oh Aye, my Duffer
Clint
Robbie
Though there is definitely a case to be made for dropping Clint (despite current Irish form) and slotting Kavanagh into a five man midfield with Duff roaming forward in support. Hope not though. Just joking about Packie Kenny, by the way... :eek:
How do you justify including O'Shea ahead of Finnan? 'Jonno' has done f**k all recently and cant get a regular place in an average MU team. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryPhelan
Both of them have done **** all this season, but at least O' Shea has done it while playing in a position he is more naturally suited to than Finnan. Admittedly neither are born and bred left backs, but O' Shea has experience playing there at domestic, European and now international levels - he can also use his left foot with less delay than Finnan, who throughout the entire Switzerland game was painfully forced to cut in onto his right everytime he wanted to make the pass. O' Shea is the lesser of two evils in this scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
What? O'Shea has been an ever present for Man U when fit. I'd love to see Finnan left back but against France I'd go for O'Shea as he's more used to the position, I'd play Finnan there in a friendlys though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
If he does play 5 across midfield, then he has to play with two wide men, which will be Duff and Reid\Kilbane. If Reid doesn't cop on to himself at Forest, he won't be playing in Paris due to lack of match practice - he's fat enough as it is. John O'Shea and Kenny Cunningham are big liabilities at the back against the French as well. O'Shea is rubbish, while Cunningham is past it and has about as much pace as Matt Le Tissier. Carr is also not performing for Ireland, while Roy Keane needs to improve dramatically in the coming weeks. Then we have the problem of Duff and Morrison not playing enough games for their clubs. Seriously lads, France might be under-strength, but we're in big trouble as it stands.
My team would be the following, even though ideally I would drop O'Shea, Carr and Kilbane. I'd also drop Cunningham, but there's no cover. I reckon Henry\Cisse could destroy him on the night.
Given
Carr Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea
Finnan Kavanagh Keane Kilbane
Duff
Clinton Morrison
Morrison ahead of Robbie Keane cos he holds up the ball better and is a better option away from home. Robbie does too much messing on the ball, plus his decision making is the worst i've ever seen in a top flight striker.
I can't believe anybody would suggest we drop our top scorer ever. If his rubbish decision making has got him 21 goals for us so far than long may it continue. And not only do you drop him, you put Duff up front, even worse.
Thats some slating you gave the players. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
It is isn't it!Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Tell me is there anything you like about this team? ;)
The only thing I fully agree with you on is that Reid is carrying too much weight for a professional athlete.
Kenny Cunningham -whatever his shortfalls in speed over five yards or reaction - did not get to being one of the most experienced and respected center halves in the premiership by being "a serious liability" to anyone.
John O'Shea -while running a serious risk of becoming a utility man at his club -doesn't get to pull on a ManUre shirt every week because he's a nice lad who does his best. That said, I do think he'll miss out to finnan at LB in paris.
Roy Keane is still on the comeback trail and -deeply, deeply flawed individual as I may believe him to be -I reckon his heart is in it, that he'll be right as rain for it and I'll go further and predict that he'll play a friggin' blinder in Paris ...I acknowledge that's not sticking my neck out hugely as he's "due" a big performance for us.
Carr is settling in nicely at a new club and fingers crossed he'll be at RB for the france game ...hopefully we might see him pop off one of those exocets like against the saints too :p
Robbie Keane -yes indeed Robbie "over elaborates"/ fannys around with the ball too much. That's a fact. But let's say a French defender makes a mistake and we take possesion 30-35 yards out -who do you want that ball to run to? Robbie? or Clinton? One answer and no disrespect to Clinton intended.
There is a lot more to judging a centre half than his physical ability. Whatever about Cunningham's lack of pace, he certainly makes up for it through his organisational skills, leadership, etc. I rate Dunne up there with Kenny when it comes to heading, marking, tackling, etc. but I wouldn't take Cunningham out of the team for any Irish player that we have available. ATM, if O'Brien was out injured Kerr would probably go with Doc but if Cunningham was out I think Kerr would go with Breen (we are really lacking in cover for an organiser in defence, Breen is the best we've got after Kenny).
how can anyone slate kenny? he has been superb for us in the last 5 or 6 years. and he was badly missed in basle last year. cunningham and o`brien are as solid a pairing as there is around.
admittedly robbie can take too much out of the ball and argues/moans with the ref far too much, but he is our top scorer and certainly a player i`d never even think of leaving out of the side. still the top man by far for me
When I said "serious liability", I was talking specifically against the French. If the French are on song they'll leave Cunningham for dead. As for Robbie Keane, it wouldn't matter if the ball fell to him from 35 yards out 'cos he'd mess it up anyway. Robbie is only effective when he doesn't have time to think about what he's going to do. Give him time though, and he'll make a mess of it 9 times out of 10. I would pick Morrison purely on the basis that we're away from home and we need a striker who can hold up the ball because it will be backs to the wall stuff at times. I didn't pick Duff up front either, I'd have him playing in midfield with the freedom to play off of Morrison on the counter attack.
I stand by what I said about O'Shea and Carr - they simply don't perform for Ireland. When was the last time that any of these two stood out for Ireland? As for Roy Keane, I said he needed to improve, he even admitted that himself, and I expect him to.
Hardly a slating, there is truth in every point I made. Mark my words on Cunningham, he's going to struggle this season because he's too slow.
I'm sorry, but that's complete and utter horse manure. He's our record scorer at the age of 24, he's scored well at club level despite playing for a poor Spurs side and not being an out and out goal scorer. How much time did he have to think about the goal in Holland? Or the penalty(s) against Spain? To leave one of the finest strikers in the history of this country out of the side is complete madness. It's just typical of the fickle nature of support, he's had a poor couple of games for Ireland now it's fashnoble to call him rubbish. He'll score away to France and people will wonder how he's not world player of the year. Same thing happend to Staunton, Duff, Finnan and many others besides.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
same difference, he'll still be as ineffective as he always is in the middle or when given floating roles or whatever. He's a left winger, end of story.Quote:
I didn't pick Duff up front either, I'd have him playing in midfield with the freedom to play off of Morrison on the counter attack
Robbie was king after the World cup but he seems to be every fans target these days. A player that will go down the same road is Milan Baros, his playing style is the mirror of Robbie's and he'll try to live up to his Euro reputation and be too selfish.
Well i'm sorry if my opinion upsets you, but I don't give a balls about reputations or records etc. I'm only interested in picking a team purely on current form, and at the moment Robbie Keane is not up to scratch. I have nothing against Keane, or any Irish player for that matter, but consistant bad performances from a player merits that player being dropped, and that includes Robbie Keane. It might be the kick up the arse that he needs because he's scoring record isn't all that hot of late in competitive games. I have my reasons for picking Morrison, as I outlined above. But Robbie will probably play, and if he does i'll support him 100%, and if he plays a stormer, it'll be about bloody time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
I think too many fans are viewing this team with rose tinted glasses. We are actually not all that great, and this was proved out in Basle. It is even more worrying when our so called better players are out of form, or not performing. That's all I was saying. Out of all the players that I "slated", only one or two acquitted themselves well in our last two games, so i'm under no illusions that we face a very difficult task against a wounded animal in Paris. Some people on here though would nearly tell you that we're going to win the world cup.......
I won't be one of those people. I like to judge a player on current form and current form alone. The fickle supporters will have him go from zero to hero though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
Totally agree hes playing absolute crap for Ireland, losing the ball, falling down a lot moaning at the ref.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
Can't remeber the last competetive game he played well in, definetly should be dropped only problem being we have no alternatives.
Wot about Stephen Elliott? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Condex
He's not been match fit ffs, of course he's not going to perform well. You can't judge someone in 'current form' when those two games he's played in game before he'd played a full 90 minutes all season. Before these two games his last game for Ireland was Holland away, unless I'm mistaken? Yeah, I think he did fairly alright in that game. He's far and away our best striker, he's out best goal scorer which is amazing considering his game is about so much more than scoring goals. His goals record at Spurs, despite that, is amazing too. In his first season with them he only scored three less goals than Van Nistelrooy if you don't take penaltys into account. Afaik, he's been their player of the year both years he's played for them. You don't drop a player like that for two bad games because he wasn't match fit, not unless you have a top replacement, and we quite clearly do not. Him and Morrison have consistently scored goals together for us and need to be kept together.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
Great post. I like a man who backs up his post with facts (I never stop doing it ;) ). :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
People, people , people !
This is not about 'how good our team is' or whether we are world beaters. We play two matches next month. Three points from the Faroes is a must. Anything from the French game is a bonus.
Tell me another time in the last eight years when you would have seriously thought that Ireland could get a result in Paris against the former World and European champions !?!?
Its not whether Robbie is on form , RK has an attitude problem , Duff isnt playing enough at Chelsea etc etc. Its about us having a chance to not only draw with France but maybe , just maybe beat them. Who is in more disarray at the moment us or them ?? Who has come off the back of a 0-0 with Israel ? a 1-1 with Bosnia ?? Which team has their players retiring left right and centre ? Which one has their main midfielder banned for the match ?? Who is the pressure on ?? Did you know that their win against Faroes was their first win in 4 ??
Think back to the Portugal and Holland games . Think to the World Cup and how it was all over before a ball was kicked. All the same old rubbish was spewed out before those games. This is our best chance. 6 points out of 6 and we are odds on to be in Germany and its very very possible !
While you are mulling over how 'average' we might be, take in some of these quotes from the French manager , you know , the guy in charge of them ! Have a quick glance at their team sheet from the Faroe game and honestly say you recognise all of the names.
Deep Breaths everyone and prepare for another great Irish night !!
"There is a lot of hard work ahead of us, that's a certainty.The whole team must be more aware of that, they must show more determination."
"The Republic of Ireland will also be a huge battle for us but they have better technical qualities than the Faroe Islands," Domenech said.We'd better prepare well and try to improve our game."
France : Coupet (?) , Evra (?) , Gallas, Giuly (?), Givet (?), Squillaci (?), Pedretti,(?) Pires, Vieira, Henry (Dhorasoo 64 ?), Saha (Cisse 9).
Subs Not Used: Rothen, Landreau, Boumsong, Luyindula.
Ya, granted he played well there, but that's another friendly game your pointing to. Even Barrett had a stormer in that game. Robbie Keane has not impressed me in a competitive game in a long time. I include the entire Euro 2004 campaign in that. He has not delivered for us in the big games in a while now, actually since the World Cup if we are honest. So chew on that FACT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
He is far and away our best striker, of that there is no doubt, but only when he is on form. When he's not on form, he's as effective as Connolly. It's very bad for both him and us that even though he plays crap, he still makes the team. Sometimes you just need to drop a player, because a Robbie Keane with a point to prove would be better than the lethargic, moaning Robbie Keane that we have at the moment. Clinton Morrison has had a point to prove of late, due to unfair criticism from media and fans, and fair play to him, he has delivered. He is the form striker at the moment in my eyes, and that's why I would pick him. It might just wake Robbie Keane up as well ;)
Wallis, no offence but why in the name of god to you have question marks beside Coupet, Evra, Pedretti, Givet and Giuly? They are all well known players (I could forgive you if you didn't know Givet as you probably didn't see any of Monaco's CL matches last season :) ) and with the possible exception of Coupet they would walk into our team. I know Dhorasoo because I support Celtic and Lyon were in our CL group but I don't think he's well known (he's with Milan now though). I have to admit never hearing of Squillaci but he's the only player. The 3 players I'm shocked you have question marks beside though are Coupet, Evra and one of the best player in the world IMO, Giuly.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallis
That is an excellent team mate.
[QUOTE=eirebhoy] I have to admit never hearing of Squillaci but he's the only player. QUOTE]
Squillaci is also a Monaco regular.
I'm sorry but this is a nonsense. We have one striker capable of pulling something special out of the bag whether he's playing well or not and we leave him on the bench?Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tothefloor
I would agree if we were like England and had Defoe, Smith, etc to bring in but Macken, Connolly or the Doc?
During our last qualifying campaign Robbie had a lot going on in his life with his dad dying and all. IMO Robbie rarely gives a bad performance in green when he's fully fit and his goal tally proves that.
I know now after looking him up but Givet is twice as famous as Squillaci and Squillaci only made the bench for the CL final. There are plenty of last years Monaco players I couldn't name TBH but Evra, Givet and Giuly are well-known.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowsy
Wasn't getting at you EB.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Agree about Giuly being top drawer. Was fantastic last season with Monaco and looks like more of the same with Barcelona this year. probably would be in the team on merit even without the retirements.
They also have my favourite player of last year Rothen on the bench.