Trap: Too much pay = Contempt for the job

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17/10/2012, 8:50 AM
A face

Trap: Too much pay = Contempt for the job

Is there an argument to say that Trap was getting paid too much, and that it was just about the money all along and thats why he has so much contempt for the job, not looking at players, whining about players instead of getting the best out of them?

What was his wage? Half paid by Denis O'Brien we know.

With Harry Rednap looking for a 4 year deal (complete madness to give that to any manager anyway) and presumably the same money again, is the only motive the money? Shouldn't the motive be that the guy wants to achieve something with the team. Leave a better structure in place when he goes. Look to leave a health more productive system in his wake.
17/10/2012, 8:52 AM
Murfinator

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

thats why he has so much contempt for the job

:confused:
17/10/2012, 9:55 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Is there an argument to say that Trap was getting paid too much, and that it was just about the money all along and thats why he has so much contempt for the job, not looking at players, whining about players instead of getting the best out of them?

What was his wage? Half paid by Denis O'Brien we know.

With Harry Rednap looking for a 4 year deal (complete madness to give that to any manager anyway) and presumably the same money again, is the only motive the money? Shouldn't the motive be that the guy wants to achieve something with the team. Leave a better structure in place when he goes. Look to leave a health more productive system in his wake.

So the Sun newpaper publish a report about Sun columnist Harry Redknapp looking for a (currently occupied) job the Sun newspaper are trying to get vacated?
no conflict of interest there.
17/10/2012, 10:47 AM
Bungle

I don't get people's dislike for Harry Redknapp getting the job. He is a proven manager, who has generally done very well in management at a high level. He is a bit of a jack the lad to say the least, but then again, he appears to have a bond with most of the players he has worked with and he strikes me as the kind of manager that would bring back the team spirit that we don't have anymore in my opinion. He knows our players and has a good knowledge of the lower leagues also. He has a tendency to play good football, which would imo be the very things that will bring supporters back to going to the Aviva for international games.

My only concern with him would be that he would be offered other big jobs while he is manager. I would nearly say that this is inevitable. However, the compensation for the FAI would be large in such a case.
17/10/2012, 11:52 AM
Stuttgart88

This is naive and dogmatic but I yearn for the day when our national team is performing well, managed by an Irishman and is made up of players who at some stage in their careers had played in Ireland. I've nothing whatsoever against 1G and 2G players playing for us, but I want to see signs that our system is working at a level sufficient to produce players capable of competing internationally.

I have no idea what number of first-teamers being produced in Ireland that I'd like to see, it's a woolly point but one I'm sure most understand.
17/10/2012, 12:14 PM
DannyInvincible

In what way(s) has Trap shown contempt for the job specifically?
17/10/2012, 2:02 PM
paul_oshea

I think Harry would love this job so he can stick it to the FA a l� Charlton all those years ago.
17/10/2012, 2:07 PM
Junior

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I think Harry would love this job so he can stick it to the FA a l� Charlton all those years ago.

Thats a fair point. I would hate it though. Like others have posted, its just an irrational dislike of the man.
17/10/2012, 2:29 PM
TrapAPony

I would not mind Harry getting it. Might gain a few half decent players from it too.
17/10/2012, 4:36 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

In what way(s) has Trap shown contempt for the job specifically?

I think its through his dismissiveness of the idea that there are better players out there at his disposal, when its his job to find them and nurture them. I think he's been blaming players for a lot of the problems which in my opinion should not be done, at least not until he has looked at other issues first. He doesn't go to see games which is absolute madness from his own point of view but its demonstrative of the contempt he has for the job. Delegating tasks to others when he should be doing it himself, and it then results in failure and he brushes it off as not being his problem. Also the amount of bust ups he has had with players is beyond ridiculous at this stage, and for a guy who fastest rebutal is 'we dont have the players', this is complete contempt for the job. And the commuinication issue is not real at this stage either, he has got to be completely taking the p�ss right now. I dont have an issue with poor communication and efforts to improve it, but this guy is just deflecting it. I'll be honest on this point, i speak Italian myself so i have the benefit of hearing all of what he is saying, but even if i didn't speak it that fact that he doesn't attempt to improve this issue is farcical by now.
17/10/2012, 5:00 PM
Charlie Darwin

This is kind a moot argument, isn't it? He wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't offered that level of wage.
17/10/2012, 10:25 PM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

This is kind a moot argument, isn't it? He wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't offered that level of wage.

Dont pick him so. Or at least have some idea of what you want out of the guy before signing him up.
18/10/2012, 7:42 AM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

I think its through his dismissiveness of the idea that there are better players out there at his disposal, when its his job to find them and nurture them. I think he's been blaming players for a lot of the problems which in my opinion should not be done, at least not until he has looked at other issues first. He doesn't go to see games which is absolute madness from his own point of view but its demonstrative of the contempt he has for the job. Delegating tasks to others when he should be doing it himself, and it then results in failure and he brushes it off as not being his problem. Also the amount of bust ups he has had with players is beyond ridiculous at this stage, and for a guy who fastest rebutal is 'we dont have the players', this is complete contempt for the job. And the commuinication issue is not real at this stage either, he has got to be completely taking the p�ss right now. I dont have an issue with poor communication and efforts to improve it, but this guy is just deflecting it. I'll be honest on this point, i speak Italian myself so i have the benefit of hearing all of what he is saying, but even if i didn't speak it that fact that he doesn't attempt to improve this issue is farcical by now.

Why do you think he's dismissed the notion that there are better players out there at his disposal? Who has he dismissed? Are there better players out there at his disposal? Rather than being a senile, old man, I'd trust that he's well aware of all players of notable profile discussed regularly on this forum. He just doesn't judge them able or suitable enough to perform a role he wants them to perform in his team. I find his system uninspiring, but I'm not sure you level a fair accusation at him here. Plus, it's not as if he's been ignoring eligible players over the past few years. There seems to be this perception that his squad selections are conservative in the extreme - a replica of the last time and time again - but he's brought plenty of new faces into his squads and given them opportunities.

Which players is he blaming for "the problems", and which problems specifically? Are you referring to the 6-1 drubbing the other evening, or are you saying he's been blaming players for other things?

Ideally, I'd like to see him attending more games (or simply games at all, even), but he delegates tasks to those employed by the FAI to assist him. Tardelli is his assistant and attends games, as far as I know. The FAI should be more insistent that Trap attends games to keep tabs on players himself. They've obviously not made the attendance of live games a compulsory aspect of the role and seem happy to let Tardelli cover this corner. If you have a problem with the job specification, blame the FAI.

Which bust-ups? This idea that he's lost the dressing room and has been falling out with a new player every week is largely constructed by a media out to finish him. It's overblown nonsense, if not completely fabricated. Disagreements occur in football all the time and the players have been very clear that there is no disharmony in the squad; they are behind Trap.

I think you make a fair point on the language barrier; it can't be of help. He's been in the job half a decade now but his English is still very poor and he still requires the assistance of Manuela (or so he lets on anyway) in getting through interviews and press conferences. What is he like in the dressing room? How does he deliver messages to the team?
18/10/2012, 9:35 AM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

I saw the Wales and Scotland bosses this week crestfallen, that their hopes of qualifying are gone after a couple of games in an easier group than ours.

No way. There isn't an uncompetitive team in that group. Ours might have Germany, but we've already been shown up by Croatia this year and I'd rather face the Faroes and Kazakhstan than Wales and Macedonia.
18/10/2012, 9:41 AM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

We paid peanuts for Kerr and Staunton, and we were an uncompetitive side.

Were we that uncompetitive under Kerr that his and Staunton's reigns can be equated? If you look at his record, don't think it's fair to describe us as uncompetitive under Kerr.
18/10/2012, 9:43 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Were we that uncompetitive under Kerr that his and Staunton's reigns can be equated? If you look at his record, don't think it's fair to describe us as uncompetitive under Kerr.

not uncompetitive, but we were definitely missing something that prevented us pushing on from there-or-thereabouts to actually qualifying
18/10/2012, 9:54 AM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

not uncompetitive, but we were definitely missing something that prevented us pushing on from there-or-thereabouts to actually qualifying

Think we missed a bit of conviction and courage from the manager. When your bravest gamble in a must-win final group against Switzerland is a like-for-like change of Gary Doc on for Clinton Morrison in the 87th minute - after your team has barely created a single chance - then there's a big problem.

His record is decent but Kerr was even more conservative than Trap, even if he didn't have the attacking options we have now. I've never been more frustrated as a fan than when watching us at home under Kerr against Russia and Switzerland.
18/10/2012, 10:06 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

His record is decent but Kerr was even more conservative than Trap, even if he didn't have the attacking options we have now. I've never been more frustrated as a fan than when watching us at home under Kerr against Russia and Switzerland.

Moreso the Swiss game, who only needed a point to get to the play offs and were content to defend for 90 minutes. What was the point of keeping it 4-4-2 if we weren't going to score? Take off a full back and go 3-4-3 or even 3-3-4 and at least make a decent fist of it. Taking off two strikers who didn't look like scoring for two strikers who were never going to score wasn't going to change the game in the last ten minutes.
18/10/2012, 6:37 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

No way. There isn't an uncompetitive team in that group. Ours might have Germany, but we've already been shown up by Croatia this year and I'd rather face the Faroes and Kazakhstan than Wales and Macedonia.

We have dealt with Serbia, Macedonia, Wales, and Scotland before. The group would be winnable with Croatia as the only main concern.
18/10/2012, 7:01 PM
cornflakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

We have dealt with Serbia, Macedonia, Wales, and Scotland before. The group would be winnable with Croatia as the only main concern.

Belgium?!?
19/10/2012, 6:49 AM
gastric

It seems that Trap is listening to the FAI.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...n-3264691.html
19/10/2012, 6:59 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornflakes

Belgium?!?

Irrelevant, as we couldn't draw them.
19/10/2012, 8:18 AM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

We have dealt with Serbia, Macedonia, Wales, and Scotland before. The group would be winnable with Croatia as the only main concern.

We've dealt with them largely in friendlies/Carling Cup games. Personally think we'd be as likely to come fifth as win it on current form. Kazakhstan and Faroes may have been tricky, but ultimately they were bankers in a way Wales and Macedonia wouldn't be.
19/10/2012, 8:28 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

We've dealt with them largely in friendlies/Carling Cup games. Personally think we'd be as likely to come fifth as win it on current form. Kazakhstan and Faroes may have been tricky, but ultimately they were bankers in a way Wales and Macedonia wouldn't be.

we beat Macedonia twice in the last qualifiers
19/10/2012, 8:36 AM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

we beat Macedonia twice in the last qualifiers

I said 'largely in friendlies' and 'current form' - I'd have grave concerns we'd take a win away from Macedonia based on our last couple of months. The Kazakh and Faroes games were easier, albeit still tricky, assignments IMO.

Simply put I think that Croatia/Serbia group would be a nightmare for us. Our chances of having six points at this stage would be seriously diminished in that group.
19/10/2012, 11:36 AM
Charlie Darwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastric

It seems that Trap is listening to the FAI.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...n-3264691.html

I love the hilarious made-up quote from the RTE 'source.' They just couldn't let this one pass without bringing up the Prime Time Investigates debacle for absolutely no reason at all.
19/10/2012, 12:17 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Moreso the Swiss game, who only needed a point to get to the play offs and were content to defend for 90 minutes. What was the point of keeping it 4-4-2 if we weren't going to score? Take off a full back and go 3-4-3 or even 3-3-4 and at least make a decent fist of it. Taking off two strikers who didn't look like scoring for two strikers who were never going to score wasn't going to change the game in the last ten minutes.

Kerr did not have a good night at all with his team selection and his tactics. He didn't get to grips with what type of a midfield partnership we needed with Keane injured, panicked by dropping a usually solid Kav after his poor game in Cyprus and started O'Shea at CM with an ineffective Holland. We ended up resorting to a game where we had no control of the ball or the game and were lumping the ball to midgets up front. That night was positively worse than anything Trap presided over. We were fortunate to get the draw.

Personally I don't put the failure to win the 2 games against Israel entirely on his shoulders, that vilification was not deserved, including some bizarre interpretations of Kerr's pitch side instructions to the players in Tel Aviv with the game in progress.
19/10/2012, 12:33 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Kerr did not have a good night at all with his team selection and his tactics. He didn't get to grips with what type of a midfield partnership we needed with Keane injured, panicked by dropping a usually solid Kav after his poor game in Cyprus and started O'Shea at CM with an ineffective Holland. We ended up resorting to a game where we had no control of the ball or the game and were lumping the ball to midgets up front. That night was positively worse than anything Trap presided over.

kerr oversaw worse than that. the 2-0 defeat to the swiss that knocked us out of the euros in 2003 was the most shocking non-event of an Irish performance I was ever at or saw. the match was basically a cup final but i cant remember us threatening even once. kerr approached the Irish end after the final whistle and simply shrugged his shoulders as if there was nothing he could have done about it
20/10/2012, 7:59 AM
Spudulika

According to his "friends" in the meeja he'd lost the Irish dressing room as the lads weren't interested in Noel's guitar. Oddly they were supposed to enjoy Mick Byrne's singalongs under Stan, at first anyway.