Pussy Riot - Sinead O'Connor with better hair

I've been trying to get away from this nonsense here today but everybody is talking about the verdict today. The talking heads are lapping it up and like Grauniad (not my least favourite paper) is hyping it up, and I spoke with the main BBC Moscow guy who is under instructions to get "juicy bits". He is non-plussed by it, even the opposition media are a bit wary as it's come out that a couple of the girls involved were (until last year) members of the extremely dodgy pro-Kremlin group Nashi (better known as Nashists). These were the ultra nutty folks who went out to round up "foreigners" (read that as dark skinned) to check for papers (https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2...sual-suspects/) and really only this year started to be distanced from the administration.

The whole trial is a sham, they should have been taken out and given a hiding like any other eejit would who interrupted a mass, but now they're guaranteed download sales and have already been booked for gigs and festivals (unless they end up doing a long stint of porridge).

While they're being lauded and sanitised, the poor eejit in Bahrain who did something for the public good (ie Anti-Saudi and US) got 3 years in jail with nary a word from the media. http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...jailed-3-years

In the meantime.....

Verdict given, they acted like hooligans. But they're going through the reasoning why the decision is so before giving the sentence, which could be delayed.

I hadn't heard about the Nashi links. Has it been verified?

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

The whole trial is a sham, they should have been taken out and given a hiding like any other eejit would who interrupted a mass

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Just pulling this out to highlight it

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Just pulling this out to highlight it

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Which? The hiding or the sham trial? It's all a joke. They get 2 years (backdated) for acting the mick in church, creeps like Udaltsov get to strut about and claim free speech is dead, it's not fun. With the way the Irish, British and US media are reporting it, it's like the 2nd coming of Stalin. On Radio Ekho this morning they posed the question - Would this happen in New York's Catholic cathedral, or in Westminster or in a mosque in France, what would become of them?

The most ridiculous thing is how the authorities bought into it. Now they've minted these women, they'll be in Oxegen next summer.

CD - sorry, I didn't avoid a reply. In the Moscow Times 2 months ago they had a dissection of the "band" members. Tolokonnikova and Alyokhina were at anti-Estonia and anti-UK protests with Nashi. Given the secretive nature of the organisation no membership lists are released, however both were at a Nashi camp and had photos taken with Putin. These are floating about though given the reality of photoshop, I'm not so sure about them. Moscow Times is notoriously anti-Kremlin though I have to say they're usually good for general news.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Which? .

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your BS notion that people should get hidings because they "interrupted a mass"

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Originally Posted by Dodge

your BS notion that people should get hidings because they "interrupted a mass"

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Why? It wasn't just interrupting a mass, and is what happened better? I understand that in modern Ireland nothing is supposed to be sacred, but if someone pulled the pr stunt they did in the pro-cathedral against FF I don't know if the nation would be so forgiving, then again, it's Ireland. If they were serious they'd have gone to Dagestan (to Putin's stronghold) and performed in a mosque there. A hiding is the least they'd be worried about.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Why? It wasn't just interrupting a mass,

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Your words, not mine

as for the rest of your rhetorical waffle, I'm leaving it alone

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Your words, not mine

as for the rest of your rhetorical waffle, I'm leaving it alone

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So you disagree that they should have been dealt with in a different way than they have been, fair enough. I believe this has just been the latest power battle issue between the siloviki, a clip around the ear (hiding too much seeing as they're women) and community service would be enough. You didn't offer a counterpoint, just an insult to my position. Fair enough again. It's a pity you dropped than in however you're entitled to your freedom of speech.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

It's a pity you dropped than in however you're entitled to your freedom of speech.

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Some severe irony at work here.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Some severe irony at work here.

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I am THRILLED someone noticed that! :-) Yaay! All I've been hearing about on radio (here and at home) is about freedom of speech and expression. Hearing meeja types spout on about sports funding and costs of medals, I'd go the Stalin route and start sending them off to the Aran Islands or something.

That rubbish that if they did it in a mosque, etc - why would they do that, they are not in Iran, they did it in Russia, and they have proved their point on free speech. Maybe not the best protest, but the sentence looks a tad bit extreme, 2 years for stupidity.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

That rubbish that if they did it in a mosque, etc - why would they do that, they are not in Iran, they did it in Russia, and they have proved their point on free speech. Maybe not the best protest, but the sentence looks a tad bit extreme, 2 years for stupidity.

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Bennocelt - I agree with you, it's too harsh, it wasn't the best protest (to make a statement) and it's all a pr stunt gone brilliantly well. But the sentence is just ott.

On the muslim issue, the reason why I brought it up is simple. Now I'm pretty sure you've been here, almost 100% sure in fact, and you know that Russia has a substantial domestic (and immigrant) Muslim population. The biggest mosque in Russia is to be built outside Moscow and they estimate 2 million muslims in the capital and region alone - and remember these aren't all the cuddly fluffy Tatar muslims, they're from the length and breadth of the ex-USSR.

http://rt.com/politics/mosque-muslim-russia-moscow-921/ 6% of the Russian population is Muslim, that's Russian population - add in the daily immigrants from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbijan etc and it's above 10%. In Tatarstan the Saudi backed sunni fundies are on the march and have proved their presence with a recent assassination, the Caucasus continue to battle this difficulty and as a protest to government assistance for the region these ladies have sung/warbled - "No more bread for the caucasus" - which is the rallying cry of the far right, far left, Udaltsov and Navalny (the blogger darling of the west). It's an absolute mess.

The orthodox church has always been close to the kremlin, the KGB ran it and now the FSB are laced in there. They make the Catholic church look like choirboys, so cheesing them off means trouble.

Again I agree it's a harsh sentence, it should never have gotten so far, it's given air to lunacy and you're right that it wasn't the best protest but it worked for them and for the people behind them. I'd just like to see what would happen if non-christians did the same in a christian church in the UK, USA, Ireland, France, Italy etc. It just seems like there's been so much hype for nothing - and the best thing of all, when the trial was in Taganka I was walking my little lad to the park and there were lads with fags hanging out the sides of their mouths selling "Free Pussy" t-shirts, I wanted to buy one but for $20 I figured I could get 2 football scarves for it.

oh, and meanwhile elsewhere in Moscow, a court ruling has upheld a 100-year ban on Gay Pride marches in the city.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Bennocelt - I agree with you, it's too harsh, it wasn't the best protest (to make a statement) and it's all a pr stunt gone brilliantly well. But the sentence is just ott.

On the muslim issue, the reason why I brought it up is simple. Now I'm pretty sure you've been here, almost 100% sure in fact, and you know that Russia has a substantial domestic (and immigrant) Muslim population. The biggest mosque in Russia is to be built outside Moscow and they estimate 2 million muslims in the capital and region alone - and remember these aren't all the cuddly fluffy Tatar muslims, they're from the length and breadth of the ex-USSR.

http://rt.com/politics/mosque-muslim-russia-moscow-921/ 6% of the Russian population is Muslim, that's Russian population - add in the daily immigrants from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbijan etc and it's above 10%. In Tatarstan the Saudi backed sunni fundies are on the march and have proved their presence with a recent assassination, the Caucasus continue to battle this difficulty and as a protest to government assistance for the region these ladies have sung/warbled - "No more bread for the caucasus" - which is the rallying cry of the far right, far left, Udaltsov and Navalny (the blogger darling of the west). It's an absolute mess.

The orthodox church has always been close to the kremlin, the KGB ran it and now the FSB are laced in there. They make the Catholic church look like choirboys, so cheesing them off means trouble.

Again I agree it's a harsh sentence, it should never have gotten so far, it's given air to lunacy and you're right that it wasn't the best protest but it worked for them and for the people behind them. I'd just like to see what would happen if non-christians did the same in a christian church in the UK, USA, Ireland, France, Italy etc. It just seems like there's been so much hype for nothing - and the best thing of all, when the trial was in Taganka I was walking my little lad to the park and there were lads with fags hanging out the sides of their mouths selling "Free Pussy" t-shirts, I wanted to buy one but for $20 I figured I could get 2 football scarves for it.

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There are a few Muslims in Russia, most of them down in the Caucasus areas. Russia is an Orthodox country however, with a very different way of doing things.

If they ran into a church in Ireland, the UK, or another free country, nobody would bat an eyelid. But Russia is not a free country, and everyone there knows that political protests are clamped down on at best, or at times, not permitted at all. They punishment was as expected.

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Originally Posted by mypost

There are a few Muslims in Russia, most of them down in the Caucasus areas. Russia is an Orthodox country however, with a very different way of doing things.

If they ran into a church in Ireland, the UK, or another free country, nobody would bat an eyelid. But Russia is not a free country, and everyone there knows that political protests are clamped down on at best, or at times, not permitted at all. They punishment was as expected.

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2 million Muslims in Moscow alone - from a population of 12million, more than a few. And it's not just the Caucasus, your own team played in the heartland of Russian (sensible) Islam. The estimate at present is that a little over 10% of the Russian population is Muslim, that's more than a few.

I can't agree that an eyelid wouldn't be batted if they ran into a church in the UK, Ireland or another "free" country. In a Southern US state? In a mosque in France? Or a synagogue in Israel? It wasn't a political protest, that's the line being spun by the meeja, they were protesting against the Orthodox church AND a person (Putin). The whole situation is such a mess that nobody knows what's right to do. Levada ran a poll last week where 6% said they agreed with the protest, yet 51% believed they didn't deserve a prison sentence. Levada is rather anti-establishment. At the same time as striking miners are gunned down and an actual political activist (seeking, amongst other things, freedom of speech and right to assembly) joins other dissidents in jail for 3 years, most of the meeja is silent. But 3 middle class, wannabe white women count more than black africans or an arab male. (Just supposing)

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

2 million Muslims in Moscow alone - from a population of 12million, more than a few. And it's not just the Caucasus, your own team played in the heartland of Russian (sensible) Islam. The estimate at present is that a little over 10% of the Russian population is Muslim, that's more than a few.

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Russia is an enormous country with a huge population. 10% of their population is relatively few.

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It wasn't a political protest, that's the line being spun by the meeja, they were protesting against the Orthodox church AND a person (Putin). The whole situation is such a mess that nobody knows what's right to do.

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They're not interested in protesting against the Church. It was the latest in a series of protests held in and around election time, against Putin.

The protest was political, the trial was political, the verdict was political. Free speech is tolerated in Russia to an extent, but when you start mixing it with politics, you're skating on thin ice, and they're the latest to discover exactly how thin it is.

10% of a huge number is relatively few?

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Originally Posted by mypost

Russia is an enormous country with a huge population. 10% of their population is relatively few.



They're not interested in protesting against the Church. It was the latest in a series of protests held in and around election time, against Putin.

The protest was political, the trial was political, the verdict was political. Free speech is tolerated in Russia to an extent, but when you start mixing it with politics, you're skating on thin ice, and they're the latest to discover exactly how thin it is.

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Mypost - if you believe 10% is relatively few, then okay, that's your opinion, however walking around Moscow on Sunday, on Eid, you'd see the very large "few" who are here. 10% spread across the country, however 2million out of 12million in Moscow is substantial. Add in the ongoing warzone between law and islamic disorder in Dagestan, Ingushetia, Chechnya and you have difficult times ahead, not to mention the efforts of fundamentals to drag Tatarstan back to medieval times. However in principle I'll agree that 10% spread across Russia is relatively few, given than in the Republic of Ireland 2.8% were COI in 2011, it's a short step to 10%.

However the protest was against the church, the church and it's ties with the Kremlin, and the President. The protest was not political in it's conception but once the ghouls in the Kremlin and media grasped it, it quickly became a stick to beat the President and his allies with. Free speech is tolerated in any country, so long as it conforms to what the public wants - this want is decided by those who rule (both government, industry and media). When you have footballers fined for tweets and civilians jailed for the same, it's a slippery slope.

Mypost, from the media perspective you are 100% correct. However one very simple matter is being missed in all of this, and I have waited for someone here (given the level of education and world weariness needed to ensure LOI football) to cop the obvious that has almost completely been missed.

Pussy Riot are a troupe established by the performance group Voina (war) who have been, well, performing acts that ranged from an orgy in a museum to a woman having relations with a chicken (and leaving the store with it) to smashing up shops, kissing female policewomen and other unfunny acts of "protest". They have allied themselves with whoever will pay their bills and act out an anti-establishment role that lost much foreign support (bar banksy) when they admitted to staging "attacks" on themselves to show how useless the local cops are (agree with them on that). So to take it to the next level since they were losing willing girls and testosterone fueled males they decided to get the most publicity ever. The biggest PR stunt in Russian history. They formed a troupe aka Punk band Pussy Riot. Their one and only performance was when the Patriarch was doing mass and despite the relative lack of furore at the time, despite the group's best efforts, the church played into their hands by protesting to the Kremlin to pursue them. Not one to let down a valued colleague (the Orthodox church have always been KGB/FSB) the police and co arrested the only ones offered up - the 3 young women. They were charged with hooliganism and 15 days in jail and community work. They rejected it, as they are allowed to do, and demanded a trial to show their innocence. Suddenly 3 young women in court for miming a song (for 40-90seconds) and preventing worshippers from worshipping, became a phenom. And the Voina leader's desire to make their group the best of the rest came true. The campaign for Free Pussy Riot is global. The Voina group are coining it and loving it like that.

I'll repeat - Free Pussy Riot.

Free P.R.

Can someone get this guy to head up the LOI, Fran Gavin, be warned!

Good post but are they actually any good music wise?:D

(seen that one where they try to kiss policewoman, was very cringe worthy)

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Good post but are they actually any good music wise?:D

(seen that one where they try to kiss policewoman, was very cringe worthy)

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Music-wise no, it's noise. Now, I'm no great critic, but our Nigel from Donegal does a good tune, but this lot, they've set out NOT to make music. I've met these folks on the street and some of their efforts make you think, but they are basically the type of toshpots who make sure that sport in Galway doesn't work. When we (myself and the Missus) had the misfortune to encounter them at a festival in Moscow - think of new age travelers with mangier dogs, and kids - I realised what we were looking at. Lads who weren't brave enough to try sports, were mammied to within an inch of their lives and are either a) f-ugly or b) talentless. So they call themselves artists and anarchists. The women carry bigger Daddy issues than the babies they lug around and will eventually (when they cut out the dope) clean up and go get a job in a bank. Other than that they're grand.

The video of the chicken steal was horrific, if that's considered art then, no, I can't comment further.

The cop kissing thing (I think it translates as Kiss a Pig) was really badly received and you can imagine if it was a guy doing such things to a male cop, or worse, to a female cop. Now, in fairness, Moscow policewomen are not the standard Templemore fare, they do look well, but you kind of grimace when you see it. The 2 younger women who were on trial last week were sought for this but the cops dropped the charges after the usual heads started complaining about rights etc.

I remember the museum orgy gig, and one of the old dears who worked at the museum. She commented something funny about one of the women being pregnant and not needing more "attention" (in russian it's quite rude). I may be wrong but a couple of days after the women gave birth. When that kid gets arrested for making a jacket out of their victims skins......

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

That rubbish that if they did it in a mosque, etc - why would they do that, they are not in Iran, they did it in Russia, and they have proved their point on free speech. Maybe not the best protest, but the sentence looks a tad bit extreme, 2 years for stupidity.

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I dunno. Whatever about the seemingly draconian sentence, would there have been such a moral outcry and outpouring of support for the Pussy Riot members' right to freedom of expression from the Western media had they been, say, a far-right group singing racist songs about immigration in a Moscow mosque? Would it even have been brought to our attention?

Danny it would have been brought to our attention, as another sign that Russia is a racist, backward state, that England should have been awarded the World Cup in 2018 and Putin had lost control. This was the perfect crime. The lads in the troupe ran away (they've been hiding since this all kicked off) and the women took the rap. Perfect P.R..