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As we languish in the dog days of August...
Especially for those of you who follow closely:
What lad did you really think would have a solid career and be a major part of the Irish team that became a bust and never made an impact?
And conversely who did you think rubbish that went on to really surprise you for the better?
Doesn't matter if you said it on here or in the pub years ago, or to yourself, what are your best predictions and worst when it comes to particular Irish Internationals?
Damian Duff. Was an absolute headless chicken in his first handful of appearances in the green. Just thought he was going to be another of those little $hits that would flatter to deceive. He turned out not bad in the end........................
Like many people, I over-rated Stephen McPhail, based on his season for Leeds in 99/00. Thought he would be the creative midfielder we needed. Also Michael Reddy, based on a few substitute appearances for Sunderland when he was the next-choice after Phillips and Quinn there. Owen Garvan, Liam Miller and Shaun Thornton were others. Oh, and Darren Potter. Thought he had the mix of athleticism, aggression and composure that we badly needed in central midfield. Richie Partridge, Graham Barrett, Clive Clarke, Alan Quinn... looking back, I was stupidly optimistic.
My biggest mistakes in terms of under-rating - I didn't initially rate Steve Finnan, but that's because I thought we didn't need him, having Gary Kelly and Carr. I decried Matt Holland's inclusion in the Irish squad at McPhail's expense, until that goal in Lisbon. I also wrote Shane Long off a few years ago. I had my doubts about Keith Fahey playing at a higher level when some were raving about him in his St. Pats days (but then, dare I say it, he hasn't exactly been a revelation for Ireland or Birmingham since his move). I wasn't mad about St. Ledger coming into the squad, but he's been pretty good for us, was glad to be proven wrong there.
Guys who I thought would be pivotal players by this stage are Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland though I still say they would be barring circumstances. For a player who undershot my expectations - Leon Best. Looked explosive in his teens, injuries seems to have destroyed his pace and confidence.
For someone who surprised me? Kilbane. For someone who for large parts of his career I thought of as a skillless donkey he really showed his worth in the last 4 years under Trap. We've been a shambles at left back without him and I'd imagine it hurts the team for morale not having them, would love to have him back for this campaign if he stays fit.
Honest replys so far, I am enjoying it.
Leon Best, good point, and he was so positively bullish on playing for Ireland in that fourfourtwo interview years back. I was really excited for a player like him coming along.... Damn. What happens?
I thought Mark Kennedy's goal in Lansdowne (Vs Yugoslavia maybe) was the start of something special, maybe around '99. But then he fooled Liverpool's scouting network also around that time. I also thought Butler and Thornton while at Sunderland could really play. And early Man City era Willo Flood more recently. Healy while at Celtic.
I remember thinking if Miller and Thornton did what they were genuinely looking like they might at the time, and joined Duff and Keane we could have a world class midfield! Didn't quite go that way.
On the flip side Andy O'Brien, I thought was a headless player with awful positioning when I first saw him for Bradford but he could have added to his 26 caps comfortably enough in the end, we selected worse at times.
Me
Overrated: Alan Mahon
Underrated: Gary Breen
Generally:
Overrated: Sean Thornton
Underrated: Lee Carsley
I thought Darren Potter was going to be the next Roy Keane after the two matches in the USA back in the summer of 2007 I think it was, when we played Ecuador and Bolivia if I remember correctly. He was still on the books at Liverpool and actually captained the teams after Kilbane subbed off in one of the matches.
Christ, I love Kilbane. Say what you want about his ability but you could never doubt his desire and commitment to the cause. He was the only senior player to show up for those two meaningless friendlies. His time at the international level is up but fair play to the guy.
Have to agree with Colbert about Potter, I also saw that Ecuador game in Giants Stadium and he totally bossed the game, pulling the strings of the team. And that was the end of that.
I overrated The Clint big time, thought we was going to be the s**t when he first came on the seen...
Liam Miller and Kenny Cunningham.
Overrated: John O'Shea,
Underrated: Mark Kinsella
I underrated Andrews who I never thought would be up to international standard but he's turned out to be a good if unspectacular player for us.
After Paul McShane's initial appearance when he won the man of the match award against the Czechs I thought he looked good. How dreadfully wrong I was. Phil Babb looked like a world beater at USA 94. Little did we know.
This is the often quoted line for a player whos **** and something I subscribed to with Kilbane for a long time. But his last 3 years for us at left back and the shambles his replacements have done since have shown me there was more to him than just desire and commitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
Off track possibly, but this thread got me thinking about players who never got the chance to give their best for Ireland due to injury. Colin Healy, Stephen O'Halloran and Richard Sadlier showed great potential and could have been stars, alas it wasn't to be. Keith O'Neill was another. I really respect Joey O'Brien for his determination to get back into top flight football, it can't have been easy.
Overrated: Mark Kelly .. the new George Best. Saw him on his debut or one of his first games .. maybe his only game .. think it was Yugoslavia in 1989.
Overrated: David Connolly (runs for cover)
Overrated: David Kelly .. thought he was going to be a star .. Bayern and a few top clubs were sniffing around and then he signed for West Ham and flopped
Actually none of them are overrated .. just never fulfilled their potential . .which might have been overrated to begin with
Mark Kennedy another one .. but for the winner against Yugoslavia in 1999, I forgive him :)
Underrated: Denis Irwin - should have been in the squad in 1990. And Mick seemed to underrate him at one stage too
Would agree about Andrews too.
I don't think Phil Babb ever really let us down. Another one who perhaps could have been better but was never less than solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I'm surprised this is the first time O'Shea has appeared. While I think he gets it in the neck from Irish fans, often unfairly, he has failed to fulfill his promise.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
Terry Dixon and Meyler in that category?Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Some people on here really thought Meyler was going to come out for us for 15 or so years and be a big cog.
Meyler only came to note in the last year or so and he is back from injury now, so everything is in front of him really.
Dixon - Good call. Not sure what the story is there, obviously injury but attitude and application were also key factors I suspect.
Most people are mentioning players who showed initial promise and failed to live up to it. They are not overrated players. O'Shea is overrated because he is widely believed to be our second best defender without ever performing near to that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
St Ledger might be just ahead of him performance-wise but I don't think it's outrageous to say he's our second best defender. He's our most naturally gifted defender for sure.
I don't think he has shown that playing for usQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Regardless of medals won etc, O'Shea a centre back. It's his best position by a country mile - but when you're surrounded by excellent players, playing teams who mostly stand off, you can be a solid out-of-position right back.
Almost his entire Irish career has been at RB, and it's rarely worked. He's only ever looked occasionally decent, but usually slow and hesitant.
I'd never have him at RB again. Play him in the centre or don't play him.
I think underrated is Hoolahan, he had great stats for last season but never got a look in.
He was called up for the Serb match but was injured, but he plays tomorrow apparently.