Ireland's two group rivals - top 2 in Europe

Spain v Italy final. If the final matches their group game, we're in for a good final.

A review of sorts needs to be taken on Ireland's performances. First of all we were dismal, poor, disastrous etc. Keeping that in mind, we suffered some terrible luck against Croatia. The goal before half-time should not have been allowed. We should also have been awarded a penalty. Had it been 1-1 at half-time in that game, the second half could've been a different game. Having lost that game, the tournament was over. Spain and Italy as has been shown are the continents top 2. To come out of the same group and get to the final, there can't be any doubts on that.

It doesn't paper over a disastrous tournament for Ireland and a way of playing which has been badly exposed. At the same time though there was little chance to recover after the first game with the opposition that lay ahead.

Definitely somewhat unlucky against Croatia but equally for a team that base's its whole style of play around been a solid defensive unit to concede against them after 4 minutes and then not to learn from it and to concede within the same time frame against the spanish is pretty much inexcusable.

We didnt trouble the spanish keeper once, I dont care how good spain are, we have a team of mostly premiership players and we should have been able to test them more than what we did.

Some of our players just didnt show up, whether it was nerves or injury, i just dont know. We played somewhat better against the italians, whether that was due to the pressure been off or the Italians just letting us tire ourselves out for the first 30 mins then picking us off is another topic for debate.

Spain and Italy, have proved themselves to be the top 2 but equally our tactics and performances were a disaster and we got badly found out . It doesnt make it any easier for me that spain and italy are in the final.

Trap needs a serious rethink for the WC quals

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Originally Posted by back of the net

We didnt trouble the spanish keeper once

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we did. Cox after about 2 mins brought out a good save.

wc 2002 could so easily have gone the way this finals campaign did. we were awful in the first half against cameroon also. difference was we turned it around in the 2nd half and a creditable 1-1 against the african champions set the tone for our other matches. all if, buts and maybes but if croatias 2nd had been disallowed and we got the pen we deserved things could have been a lot different

None of us saw it but the reports seem to be that Croatia had the beating of Spain tactically and were denied stonewall penalties that would have won them the game and the group. To say we were unlucky against Croatia is a bit ridiculous, we were so bad they were in snooze mode for the last half an hour. The greatest insult to any team is that their opposition can just switch off during a game and still cruise to an easy win.

While we may have been oceans away from 3 of the top teams I didn't see any indication we'd do any better in a weaker group. Even Denmark, Sweden, Czech rep, England, Greece etc managed to mix it with the top teams and at least make them work for their wins. We didn't, we weren't so much shown up as being beaten in a contest as we were shown up that we couldn't compete to begin with.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

we did. Cox after about 2 mins brought out a good save.

wc 2002 could so easily have gone the way this finals campaign did. we were awful in the first half against cameroon also. difference was we turned it around in the 2nd half and a creditable 1-1 against the african champions set the tone for our other matches. all if, buts and maybes but if croatias 2nd had been disallowed and we got the pen we deserved things could have been a lot different

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Well yes Croatia might have actually had to try and play in the last half an hour and score in that time period instead. If thats what you mean by different, our WC 2002 was nothing like this. The German side were soft finalists and such a bad team in that era it prompted the massive youth regeneration that has seen them make the last 4 tournament semi finals or further. Saudi Arabia were the weakest team in the tournament and Cameroon were mediocre at best. You're deluding yourself if you think it was a difficult group or wish to use it as inspiration for facing serious teams. Teams were weaker back then in general (greece won the proceeding Euros for example), the gulf is much greater now.

On a side issue. Should the Croatia 2nd goal have been disallowed? I thought Ward sliced it and although Jelavic was in an offside position this made it a '2nd phase' of play. Thus he was onside and the goal was legitimate.

Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Well yes Croatia might have actually had to try and play in the last half an hour and score in that time period instead. If thats what you mean by different, our WC 2002 was nothing like this. The German side were soft finalists and such a bad team in that era it prompted the massive youth regeneration that has seen them make the last 4 tournament semi finals or further. Saudi Arabia were the weakest team in the tournament and Cameroon were mediocre at best. You're deluding yourself if you think it was a difficult group or wish to use it as inspiration for facing serious teams. Teams were weaker back then in general (greece won the proceeding Euros for example), the gulf is much greater now.

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where did i say it was a difficult group? however, given it produced one of the finalists id say it was above average for that tournament. my point was that if we didnt turn the cameroon match around in the 2nd half we could have been out by the time we faced the saudis and had an equally bad tournament (in fact worse given your claim that teams were weaker back then) than the one just gone

The point is there is no comparison between Camerron of 2002 and croatia of today.

really lads, wake up and smell the coffee, stop burying your heads in the sands. YOu remind me of those soldiers emerging from the forests 20 years after the war.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

The point is there is no comparison between Camerron of 2002 and croatia of today.

really lads, wake up and smell the coffee, stop burying your heads in the sands. YOu remind me of those soldiers emerging from the forests 20 years after the war.

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and did they emerge thinking they had won the war? no

yes we were awful. but were we in a tough group? yes. did we get a bit of bad luck against croatia? yes. Could we have had a similarly bad WC 2002 if we hadnt turned it round 2nd half we cameroon? yes. no scandal in any of that really.

Whatever happened to Dr Peepee? He always had levity in these situations. Again I fear the worst.

Clearly they both had to raise their game v.us. And our own fantastic game plan(s).

Such fine form has then carried them both to the Final.

The End.

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Originally Posted by Junior

On a side issue. Should the Croatia 2nd goal have been disallowed? I thought Ward sliced it and although Jelavic was in an offside position this made it a '2nd phase' of play. Thus he was onside and the goal was legitimate.

Am I wrong?

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Ward was fouled which caused the kick to be sliced. It should have been a free out at the edge of the box.

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Originally Posted by legendz

Ward was fouled which caused the kick to be sliced. It should have been a free out at the edge of the box.

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Yes we were robbed in the that tournament, everything went against us.

Fifa wanted us out of the tournament cos were are a small country, note Croatia was also up against best two
teams in the world, another small nation FIFA wanted out at all costs.


Even the ref was fouling us FFS and he never even gave a free kick - what a bleeping bleep.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNxvvQuOFhk

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

we did. Cox after about 2 mins brought out a good save.

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Fair point , I remember that now. I just got confused with the other 88 minutes of the game

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

everything went against us.

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I was thinking how Shay might have felt watching Buffon last night. Early in the game he fumbled a low cross that ricocheted into his own defender, bounced back in front of a German who didn't react quickly enough in front of the open goal and the ball dribbled just wide. The type of night we had against Croatia, if that had happened us the ricochet would have landed at Jelavic's feet.

I'm not making excuses mind you, I've stated umpteen times in the last two weeks that we did ourselves no favours either, but when your luck is in you just get away with things like Buffon did.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I was thinking how Shay might have felt watching Buffon last night. Early in the game he fumbled a low cross that ricocheted into his own defender, bounced back in front of a German who didn't react quickly enough in front of the open goal and the ball dribbled just wide. The type of night we had against Croatia, if that had happened us the ricochet would have landed at Jelavic's feet.

I'm not making excuses mind you, I've stated umpteen times in the last two weeks that we did ourselves no favours either, but when your luck is in you just get away with things like Buffon did.

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Buffon recovered though after a shaky start. Given didn't and had the misfortune of knocking in the third. Our luck was out that as you say though that night.

A lot of commentary seem to have forgotten we equalised after going a goal down in the first game. Croatia turning up the pressure coming up to half time. If we'd held out for 1-1, the second half could've been a different game. All what ifs and hypothetical now. While we were bad on the night, the players were right to lament some decisions that went against them. Even if the penalty had been awarded, which it should have been. It'd have been interesting to have seen how the last 20 minutes would've panned out had we been chasing another goal. Goals change games as we all know. Again, this is not to paper over any cracks. Getting nothing from that first game was a killer though. A point would've had us having something to fight for against the Italians. Going into a game with something to fight for and being all over are two different things.

We were unlucky against Croatia, but it's our own fault for playing a gameplan that relies upon never having any bad luck.

I remember watching the Italian - Croatian game thinking the Croat's deserved some bad luck after the breaks they got against us. I thought a free the gave away at the edge of their box was harsh if a free at all. Anyways, I remember when Pirlo was stepping up for the free-kick, it'll be a bit of justice on served on them for it to be put away and Pirlo obliged by scoring a stunning free-kick.

So what are peoples predictions for the finals?
These two have already drew, Spain then got good results in the group but not so good afterwards, Italy kind of did the opposite.
So a tough one to call I am going for Italy, Balleotelli is on form, could be his final.
They seem to create a lot of chances but they also seem to waste a good few as well.
I could go for a bore draw but settled for an Italy win as I have already made a few bob on the tournament so I can afford to go for
the better odds on the Italy win.

I hope the final is representative of the tournament and that it doesn't go to penalties or get decided by a bad ref call or cheating. The tournament has had everything and has given those who only want to see the bad side of football something to consider.

It's a tactically intriguing final and I honestly can't call it, especially if the first game is anything to go by.

Ah well :)

I know they're losing but it's great to see a side actually playing football against Spain.

Italy have actually came back into game since going behind they now have 53% possession.
But they are not creating clear chances.

Interesting that, despite Chiellini's departure, there is a Juventus spine to this Italy side, just like the Spanish side is strongly represented by Barcelona (though with a Real spine). Can you imagine an England side going out with the same set up?

What was the highest finishing English side last season that was predominantly English (say 7 out of 11)?

Probably Swansea, ironically.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

What was the highest finishing English side last season that was predominantly English (say 7 out of 11)?

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Accrington??

WE are as bad as Italy 4-0 :angry2:

I hear faint echos of the "Field of Athens Road" from the Italians!!

Lol just realises Athens is in Greece :)

Let's make that The Fields of Ancient Rome!!

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

What was the highest finishing English side last season that was predominantly English (say 7 out of 11)?

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Stoke, maybe?

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Originally Posted by back of the net

I dont care how good spain are

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I think how good Spain are, has a lot to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

it's great to see a side actually playing football against Spain.

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Great revolutionary tactic that. By trying to take on Spain at their own game, they only kept the score down to the biggest loss in a final in the competition's history. That's where playing football against Spain gets you.

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Originally Posted by mypost

I think how good Spain are, has a lot to do with it.

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Sorry but it has nothing to do with it. We had a one shot on target, for a team of mainly premiership players to offer as little as we did is so wrong. Spain can beat any team 4-0 but to surrender and take the beating like we did is worrying and serious questions have to be asked

If Spain can do that to any team, even in the final, what's to complain about?

The team of mainly Premiership players, saw 4 such players relegated last year, another demoted to a lower league club since the tournament, another playing in America, and another in Russia. That's 7 players from the team of "mainly Premiership players" trying to cope with players from the best clubs in the world, and take them on at their level.

What's the answer? There is no answer. We have to do what everyone else has done for the past 6 years. Take it.