Simple question .... Should Trapattoni manage Ireland for the 2014 World Cup Campaign?
Simple question .... Should Trapattoni manage Ireland for the 2014 World Cup Campaign?
Abstaining for now. Can see the cons and pros. But inclined towards the former currently.
The former what? he never said yes or no in the question...
Voted no, but not sure we would make Brazil with Jose Mourinho in charge, TBH.
Germany is going to win our group and Ibrahimovic is going to have a field day with us.
You might need to re-read the poll options...Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Question I have to ask myself is; Did Trap get the best out of the talent pool available to him ? We were fortunate to get to the finals and badly exposed when there, so I'd have to say no - that's not the best we could have done.
No for me.
I voted yes, but not with any real conviction. I don't see any alternatives to him at the moment, and I dont think it would be worth sacking him given the pay-off we would have to give him.
I'd say its 50-50 if we'll finish second in the 2014 group or not. First is out of the question (the Germans will breeze it) so it's between us, Sweden and Austria for the second place. Even with us under Trap I think those teams will struggle to better us over the home and away matches (we'll probably win home and lose away). Once 2014 happens I'd move on to another manager irrespective of if Trap gets us there or not.
if trap gets us to Brazil it will most likely be by way of finishing 2nd in a difficult group and then through a play off with us probably unseeded and getting a difficult draw. If he can negotiate that with the squad we have then he deserves a further two years if he wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
how could we disgard a manager who had been denied a wc qualification only through cheating, qualifying for the euros and 2014 wc in his 3 campaigns??
Marginally yes for me.
But he's got to follow up his words from Tuesday's press conference with actions
Trust the players more
Refresh two or three of the starting eleven
Refresh five or six squad places
Devise a contemporary shape that gets the best out of our players, doesn't leave them overrun and doesn't depend on being cagey
Get rid of the stupid miscommunications with players (FAI to take the lead here)
Watch and talk to the players more between international games
Manage with at least half an eye on Euro 2016
Remove Keane's captaincy - it makes him undroppable
Hmm, maybe that should be a "no" then.
We have a core of dreadful players in our 7 defensive players with very little in terms of alternative options, this was highlighted in abundance during the Euros and shows what an incredible job Trap did to take such poor players to a major championship.
Must admit that I genuinely think higher of trap after these Euros then before. I was previously of the opinion that we had the players to be good enough to make these championships but we clearly don't. To get us there and have us 18 in the world with some of the worst players ever seen in a Euros is an incredible feat that few other managers would accomplish.
In many posters eyes, I've a naive, idealistic view of this. A bit like Gerry Maguire's Mission Statement.
We need someone with a fresh outlook on this team and the possibilities of who should be playing and our style of play.
We all know the names of who should be involved, so I'll spare you the "roll the credits" list of untried / discarded players.
I'm not advocating a knee jerk, kamakzee-style tactics along the lines of Cyprus 5 Ireland 2.
Simply a Manager who is willing to incorporate a spirit of "What if" from time to time.
It's in everyones interests that the team embarks on the road to playing a more progressive, creative style of play. They don't have to be the footballing equivalent to the Harlem Globe Trotters - just the ability to pass comfortably, find a player, keep the ball. First principals!!!
Minor change and the unlikely event of qualifying for 2014 only repeats the situation we found ourselves in this Summer. You have to play when you get there.
I'd suggest taking the pain now in order to hopefully be in a much stronger position for 2016.
Experiment with different personnel, pairings, formations - we could lose in the short term but the longer term gains are huge.
What struck me about the players in interviews was how many simply accepted they were "beaten by a better team". As if the inevitable happened.
We need someone to re-introduce "What if" ??
All together now, "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one............"
Voted no. A mediocre manager like Mick McCarthy got an Irish team missing its only world class player into the last 16 of the World Cup. Team did not lose a match in normal time against sides like Germany, Spain, Cameroon and Saudi. And we had players like Ian Harte and Stan past their primes. Our central midfield was Kinsella and Holland. Trap is not going to change (or more importantly make the changes that need to be made). There will be more run ins with players. He might change one or two players max against Serbia. Then for the qualifyers he will revert back to basically the squad he brought to Poland barring retirements. Given will play. Whelan will play. Keane will play. Cox will come on. There will be no place for McClean, McCarthy or whoever.
That to me suggests Wolfie that Trap has instilled a belief that "well ye aren't good enough, so i mould ye into this system", and when that didnt work that they simply believed, because of their trust and belief in Trap, they weren't good enough.
They are only saying what happened on the pitch? They can't hardly say they thought we were the better team. What were they supposed to say? Attack the manager or the system? Fast way to end a career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Like most of the yes votes, I too am a marginal yes. I don't give two hoots about the style of play. I just want winning football. I think you have a better chance of that if you pick your best side which I don't think he does. His most irritating trait to me is that he decides what his best players are and that's that.
But it did :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
I've voted yes. Trap is a great manager and brings fantastic organisation and discipline to the team in my opinion. That said, his selections and tactics have been poor. However, I do have faith in him to rectify this - we are talking about a wildly successful manager - he didn't win all those trophies by conceding possession the way Ireland do. He didn't do it by picking inferior players.
I still believe that he will see the light and select those players who can make us that bit better. We'll never be world beaters but we can be better than we have shown in the Euros.
It just struck me that there was no conviction or belief that they were ever going to get a result. Irish teams of the past never counselled defeat in this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
i went for no - i think he's taken us as far as he can, which is quite far given the state we were in before he came on board.
i appreciate that he has a great record but club and international management are very different. he had access to a better quality of player at club level relevant to the opposition he was facing. if he sticks with the tried and tested formula i can still see us fighting for the runner's up spot in the WC group, maybe even qualifying - sweden are no great shakes.
but we'll but overrun just as we were in the euros against a decent opposition that needs a win.
hopefully though he'll change things around and introduce a plan B...
as for alternatives - big mick isn't busy.
Voted yes , he got us to the Euros and I think that he will make the changes that a lot of people are demanding, Sure the finals were disappointing but we were in a tough group IMO.
OK, Spain - fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Ireland with more endeavour and a bit of conviction in what they were doing would have caused Croatia and Italy a lot more problems than we did.
Depends on what happens in the Serbia game. If he shows a willingness to adapt his approach, then yes he should be given the chance to show he has something else to offer in bringing us forward. If its more of the same, perhaps it's time to more on.
Yep - I think this has happened to some of the players, whether on subconscious level or otherwise. A few years of conditioning to a system can have strange behavioural manifestations.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I think I'd be worried about his age, he'll be 75 at Brazil 2014, so would be 77 at Euro 2016 in France. I dont want to sound ageist but I'd worry over his health at that age. Even if he gets us to 2014, I think post Brazil would be the sensible time for a change over. If we did make it to Brazil we would probably be a pot 2 team for Euro 16 qualification. In all probability the top two teams in each qualification group will go through and then the 3rd place team in each group will go to a playoff. I would hope the new manager would be able to get us to at least 3rd, so Euro 16 would be an attainable target for him (whereas the Russia WC in 2018 could be too tricky).Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Voted yes - there doesn't seem to be any outstanding alternative available at the moment, and with the spate of expected retirements - Given, Duff, Dunne, Keane at least, Trap will have no option but to blood Coleman, McClean, Hoolahan, McCarthy, not to mention more prominent roles for Long and Walters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
I’d prefer if he was to resign. He won’t be sacked.
He did not get the best. He made us hard to beat which was important and achieved in the first two years. Having achieved that, while qualification was obviously hugely important and to be applauded, we had to develop the team as well. We’ve been badly exposed and embarrassed at a major finals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I think Germany, Sweden and Austria will take points off each other. The next team can take advantage and that could be us. Germany will be clear favourites but I don’t take it as entirely going that way. After all is said and done though 2nd appears mostly likely place for qualification, though it might not be enough with one to miss out on a play-off place.
We can’t disgard a manager, only hope he might resign. There’s nothing to suggest he can progress the team further from what he has achieved already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
There seems to be a small group of supporters who see Mick as an option for a return. Only manager to have Ireland actually play football at a major finals. He’ll have come on a lot as a manager in the last 10 years. I for one would like to see a return. He said when he left he would look to come back.
He instilled a good belief in the team to be hard to beat. He hasn’t progressed the team from there and it does seem he has instilled the attitude of not being able to progress more. A manager is needed to build on what Trap has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I am of the opinion that international team managers should only stay for one 4 year cycle so then in that case he should bow out now and get somebody fresh in. As we all know Jack stayed on a bit too long, as did Mick who should have left after the WC 2002. The other team I watch, USA has also waited too long in the past before changing managers e.g. Bruce Arena did great in 2002 but the team had become stale by 2006, like wise Bob Bradley who took over from him after that WC, did well-ish in 2010 but should have left then. He stayed on too long and the team fared badly in last year's Gold Cup. International team management is a different kettle of fish to club management. Your player pool is limited and you don't have much time with the players. So you become used to the players and trust them thus making it more difficult to implement/trust new players when they come along.
i dont disagree that a change after Brazil (maybe even now) would be a good idea for various reasons. however, people calling for him to go based on our euro 2012 finals performances are wrong imo. just qualifying is a massive achievment no matter what people say. 14 teams actually qualified for euro 2012. of these 11 qualified for all the last three finals at least and pretty much always do so. add england and denmark to that who only failed to appear in 2008 and that leaves 1 or 2 places each time for the likes of us. i am not sure what we all expected really given the quality of our squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
yes, the performances were disappointing but with a few things going our way a little better the tournament dould have been a lot more satisfying than it was. i dont believe 2 or 3 of our main players were fit, the nervous shaky first 10 mins and concession of an early goal to croatia set an unfortunate tone and who knows how that match would have ended if robbie had been awarded the stone wall pen. we were always up against it in such a hard group and so badly needed a good start in the Croatia match.
Of the six players you mentioned five of them are in the attacking 4 slots. When our current attacking 4 slots were left all adrift because of the woeful control and distribution from our fullbacks and deep lying midfielders what difference exactly do you think those changes would make? SFA is the answer because its laughable to claim creation in the final third is anything near the head of our list of problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
I don't think that's the full picture but it's very definitely part of the picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I don't agree with all his decisions but if we fire the manager that brought us to our first major tourno in years theres something wrong.
Hopefully he can adapt to new a rejuvanated squad with a better philosophy. I won't be holding my breath though.
Stick for now. It's a tough group and a big ask to qualify, particularly since we're looking at a new era in terms of the team (newish players, possible new system). Allow Trap the opportunity to solidify the team, aim to actually win some games against a big side for a change and say goodbye after the campaign.
The Vote is 50/50 at the moment but the comments seem to suggest the majority are reluctantly going for a YES vote. Better the Devil you know and all that.
I am in this category. Trap is a proud man, this tournament performance (or lack of) will have hurt him deeply (perhaps more than any other footballing disappointment?), he will want to prove (once again) that he knows his stuff, if only to the doubting Irish Public. I think he has given enough hints at making changes now coupled with the poor show I think it will happen. The most exciting change for me is the introduction of McCarthy who I truly believe will be the real deal for us. His last 10 performances or so in particular for Wigan last season he looked fabulous. The likes of McClean, Coleman, Clark etc.etc.. whilst nice options, for me, they have a lot of football to play before I will get too excited about them being introduced/making a real difference. If Gibson can kick on from his last season at Everton I think he will soon enough become a first choice CM (if not from the start of the campaign). Those two changes alone will make a significant positive change to the team. I wont repeat all the other shortcomings that need to be addressed, we all know what they are.
So with all that, I vote YES and hope we see good start in the Serbia Friendly and WCQ's - We certainly have no excuse for a tournament hangover.
Whilst acknowledging Trap's system got us through two qualification groups and to a finals, I voted 'yes' on the basis that Trap appears open to adapting it in consideration of the wider pool of players available to us. He spoke of considering the likes of Hoolahan for the forthcoming campaign which would imply his openness to some form of change. The system proved effective in grinding out results in places where we'd have faltered in the past, but it has been exposed as outmoded and ineffective when we've come up against technically-able sides who can simply pass the ball around us; Russia, Croatia, Spain...
Trap has also stated his willingness to utilise our talented up-and-coming players to a greater degree. He's spoken of the likes of McCarthy and McClean as being the future. I'm looking forward to seeing how he implements these changes and players on a regular basis. I have faith in his managerial ability and perception to have noticed the limitations of the system he's been using to date.
Signora Trap: Welcome home Gio. I missed you. I'm looking forward to having you around more often.
Trap: Well I'm back to work in a few weeks. We've a game against Serbia in August.
Signora Trap: What, they didn't sack you after that? How come?
Trap: I told them that they hadn't qualified for 24 years and that I'd try out a few of their favourite players next time out.
Signora Trap: And they believed you?
Trap: Yep, (singing) we're in the money, we're in the money...
i think this is a little unfair to trap. i am pretty sure the last 2 weeks have hurt him badly and i firmly believe he will be thinking long and hard over the summer how things can be improved. thats my honest opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Harte was 24. He must of peaked early.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
This is something that gets me.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
I know it's your undoubted Dubliness, but come on.
Good spot re Hartey though. :)
No worries bud, I didn't bleedin know that yisser couldn't say that so I just thrun it in , but nice one for learnin me inanyways :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
low blow dude, I expected better from youQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Let's face reality, Trap is staying and there will be on change to the gameplan. All we can expect is some change in personnel due to retirements..