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Its not really in the spirit of the game for the powers that be to change the rules of the senior cup to suit the national league teams.It looks like a lot of club teams find themselves out of the intermediate cup and can now only play in the senior competition due to a rule change.as always Power is everything at the top
Yes,totally agree,our club had a good run in the intermediate cup in the last two years and now find ourselves ommitted and TOLD not ASKED that we are in the senior cup,which is leaving us to seriously consider NOT entering this competition this year and just concentrate on our league and local cups...i believe its an open draw 1st round aswell..??
What rules did they change? Also does anyone know the rules for players to transfer back to their own club from the national league teams?
Rules are on the fai web site under womens senior cup. I think every club should enter because it makes it to easy for the POWER brokers if everyone stays out.They want to prove that their is a gap between the national league teams and local league teams . Its up to everyone to prove that there is not.So anyone that finds that their club is somehow now in the senior cup please enter same.Quote:
Originally Posted by quizzical
Women's FAI First Round Draw:
1 Kildare & District Football League V Ballyglass FC
2 St. Catherine’s LFC V Listowel Celtic
3 Caherdavin Celtic V Cabinteely FC
4 Lifford Ladies AFC V Wilton United
BYES: Lagan Harps & Raheny United FC
FIXTURES TO BE PLAYED WEEKENDING 8TH JULY 2012
Three Limerick league club teams
Lifford,Listowel,Caherdavin
Small entry but best of luck all.
Can somebody post the Intermediate and Junior draws please
LEINSTER :-
Preliminary Round (6 games & 2 byes)
Round 1 (4 games)
HOME TEAM V AWAY TEAM 1 St. Patrick’s Athletic V Whitehall Rangers 2 Eureka/Kells V Dundalk FC 3 Peamount United V Ballymun United Ladies 4 Glebe North FC V Bealnamulla 5 Quarryvale FC V Leixlip United 6 Shelbourne FC V Monaghan United Ladies BYES:
Terenure FC
Tramore AFC
HOME TEAM V AWAY TEAM 1 Quarryvale FC /
Leixlip UnitedV Glebe North FC /
Bealnamulla2 Tramore AFC V Terenure FC 3 Shelbourne FC /
Monaghan United LadiesV St. Patrick’s Athletic /
Whitehall Rangers4 Peamount United /
Ballymun United LadiesV Eureka/Kells /
Dundalk FC
MUNSTER :-
Round 1 (2 byes)
HOME TEAM V AWAY TEAM BYES:
Killenaule-Moyglass
Newcastle West AFC
CONNACHT:-
Round 1 (2 games)
HOME TEAM V AWAY TEAM 1 Dunmore V Ballina Town FC 2 Kilmore Ladies FC V Colga FC
PRELIMINARY ROUND FIXTURES TO BE PLAYED WEEKENDING 10TH JUNE 2012
ROUND 1 FIXTURES TO BE PLAYED WEEKENDING 24TH JUNE 2012
St Catherine,s get a free ticket to the next round.walkover
Cabinteely end up losing 7-0 on there trip to LimericQuote:
Originally Posted by LmkSnr
I heard last night that the 4 loosers in the Senior Cup are now in the Quarter finals of the Intermediate cup!!
I'm looking for a bit of help here - does anyone know all the results from the first round of the Senior Cup?
Catherine's got a walkover, Caherdavin won 7-0 but I'm not sure of the other two.
I think Kildare got a walkover - they're in Round 2 alright but I'm not sure how they got there.
What was the result of the Lifford Ladies AFC V Wilton United game?
Also, does anybody have the full draw for the Second Round of the Senior Cup and the Quarter Finals of the Intermediate Cup?
The FAI website doesn't have anything at all.
Kildare got a walk over from BallyglassQuote:
Originally Posted by Shankly
st Catherines got a walk over from listowel
Kildare v Caherdavin SAT 28th at 2 o clock in Castledermot KILDARE
Lifford v st Catherines SUN 29 at 2 o clock Ennis
Nobody seems to know anything about the cup draws and it was more than an insult to read a full fixture list for
the new National league season on the National papers and not a word to be found on any media about how the cups are drawn this year.
Word is Cabinteely and Listowel were put into the next round of the Intermediate cup and Listowel gave a 2nd walkover.Something very wrong
with the draws this season.Hope Lifford and Cahierdavin come through this round. Two excellent football sides that play the game as its suppose
to be played. None of these players play national league but will put it up to the best of them
Quote:
Originally Posted by LmkSnr
Raheny United FC (B) v Lagan Harps
St. Anne’s Park
Pitch 4
Kildare & District Football League v Caherdavin Celtic
Mularney Park
Castledermot
Lifford Ladies AFC v St. Catherine’s LFC
Cassidy Park
Shamrock Rovers (SCR) v Castlebar Celtic FC (W/O)
N/A
Junior cupQuote:
Originally Posted by LmkSnr
Shiven Rovers
V
Mullingar Athletic FC ( Sunday 29th July at 3.00p.m. in Kilyon, Newbridge, Ballinasloe)
Referee – Barry Blake
Ass. Referee – John Mulroe
Ass. Referee – Alan English
St. Joseph’s Girls FC
V
Youghal United (Sunday 29th July at 1.00p.m. in Pearse Park, Sallynoggin)
Refeeree – Declan Troy
Ass. Referee – Eamon Connolly
Ass. Referee – Brian Tracey
Finglas Celtic FC
V
Murroe AFC (Sunday 29th July at 2.00p.m. in Kilshane Road)
Referee – David Dunne
Ass. Referee – Robert Byrne
Ass. Referee – Eamon Behan
Duleek Ladies FC
V
Manulla FC (Sunday 29th July at 2.30p.m. in MDL Grounds, Trim Road)
Referee – Peter Dowling
Ass. Referee – Mark Connor
Ass. Referee – William Scully
Strange st josephs girls won the junior cup last year so i do not understand how the CLUB is allowed in the same competition this season.
Kildare League 1 v 3 CAHERDAVIN FCQuote:
Originally Posted by LmkSnr
Lifford ladies 4 v 2 st Catherines extra time. 2-2 full time.
Hiya, I've just checked that one up myself. Its a strange one alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by LmkSnr
FAI Competitions Rule book 2012 (Womens) Rule 7(g) The following teams can only participate in the Senior/Intermediate Cup: Teams playing in the 2nd or lower divisions of a league with 3 or more divisions with the exception of teams in the lowest division. The teams in the top division of a league with 2 divisions. The finalists in the previous 3 years of the junior cup. Teams which finished in the top half of single division leagues. All other teams can participate in the junior cup Anyone got any suggestions as to why St Josephs last years winners of the Junior Cup are playing in the Junior Cup again this year? While the runners up from last year, (Dunmore) are playing in the intermediate cup. Also, both finalists from the Intermediate cup from last year are playing in the senior cup this year, (Ballyglass & Raheny). Puzzling.
ACV
By the way, results from the Junior Cup Quarter Finals:
Shiven Rovers 0 Mullingar Athletic 3
St Josephs Girls 6 Youghal Utd 1
Finglas Celtic 1 Murroe AFC 8
Duleek Ladies 1 Manulla FC 3
ACV
Both finalists in the Intermediate cup must play in the senior cup for the next 3 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by a country voice
Both finalists in the Junior cup must play in the Intermediate cup for the next 3 years.
St Josephs girls not only Won the junior cup last season.They were also named Bray/st josephs as one of the teams to start the National league last season.BUT this fell through before the national league started.
So it is such a suprise to find them as a junior team this year when they were looking to try enter the National Senior league
Dunmore who lost to to St Josephs last year were told they had to go into the intermediate cup. They did question why St josephs were in the Junior cup, not sure of response they got.
Still waiting to hear why the losers of the Senior cup were allowed into the intermediate cup despite no club knowing it was going to happen.
If anyone is involved with Dunmore, or knows anyone in Dunmore, it would be great to hear the response they got wouldn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by quizzical
It seems straightforward and black and white to me in the rule.
ACV
The FAI have made a complete and utter mess of this years Intermediate and Junior Cups. They have made some absolutely unbelievably dreadful decisions that not only break their own rules but also contradict other decisions that they have made in the same competitions! Yet they continue to get away with it and just carry on as if nothing's wrong.
Here are a list of the stupid senseless decisions that I have come across from this years competitions. There are probably more that I don't know about. If anyone else knows any others then just add them to the list.
1. Both Bealnamulla and Peamount's second team were allowed to play in the Intermediate Cup despite the fact that both of them play in the Premier division of the DWSL. This breaks rule 7 (f) (i) of the FAI's competition rules which states -
The following teams can only participate in the Senior Cup Competition:
Teams playing in the FAI Women’s National League;
Teams playing in the most senior division of a league with 3 or more divisions;
The finalists of the previous three years in the Senior Cup and the Intermediate Cup Competitions;
The DWSL Premier division is the most senior division of the DWSL (which has far more than 3 divisions) so how is it they are allowed to play in the Intermediate Cup? This is exactly the question I asked the Secretary of the Competitions Committee and here is the reply I got -
Hi,
All clubs were checked on their finishing league positions as per request some time ago. Bealnamulla and Peamount’s second team will be in the Senior cup in 2013 as they will play in the premier division in 2012.
All grading was done in conjunction with local league secretaries and representatives and based on the information to hand at the time.
You are reading the rules correctly, and I will take your concerns to the competitions committee for discussion.
Best regards,
This just not make sense at all. How can they be put in next years Senior Cup because of this years league??? The rule says "Teams playing in the most senior division" it doesn't say "teams who played last year in the most senior division". Take the example of Dundalk. They played in the DWSL Premier Division in 2011 but they got relegated so they played in the 2012 Intermediate Cup. The Intermediate Cup was the right place for Dundalk to play because they are no longer a Premier team but according to the explanation I got they should've been in the Senior Cup because they played in Premier last year?!! This years Cups should be based on this years leagues - not last years. What happens if either Bealnamulla or Peamount get relegated out of the Premier Division this year? (According to the DWSL website they are currently 2nd last and 3rd last so it is very possible one of them could be relegated). Will they still be told that they have to play in the Senior Cup? Even though I have it in writing from the FAI that they will be in the Senior Cup (and you all have seen it) I will bet you any money you like that if either of these teams get relegated out of Premier they will not be playing in the Senior Cup in 2013.
This decision also breaks rule 7(d) which states -
A player who is registered with a “senior” team is not eligible to compete in the Intermediate or Junior Cup competitions.
All teams in the DWSL Premier division are "senior" teams so that means any players who are registered with them can not play in the Intermediate or Junior Cup competitions. Going by this rule every single player that Bealnamulla or Peamount used in the Intermediate Cup were not eligible to play.
2. St. Joseph's being allowed to play in the Junior Cup
As was pointed out in a previous post above this breaks rule 7 (g) which states -
The following teams can only participate in the Senior and/or Intermediate Cup:
Teams playing in the second or lower divisions of a league with 3 or more divisions with the exception of teams in the lowest division;
The teams in the top division of leagues with two divisions;
The finalists of the previous three years in the Junior Cup;
Teams which finished in the top half of single Division leagues
How is it the FAI applied their rule in the case of Dunmore but don't apply it to St. Joeys who actually won the cup? Very strange indeed. There is a similar rule about the Intermediate Cup Finalists having to play in the Senior Cup for 3 years and this was correctly applied to both Ballyglass & Raheny.
3. The losers from the first round of the Senior Cup being put into the quarter final of the Intermediate Cup
This is very bizarre indeed. Especially when, as far as I can find out, none of the teams playing in either the Senior or Intermediate Cups were aware of this. Who made this decision? When was it made? Why weren't the clubs notified?
There is no mention of it at all in the Competition rules so how can they just bring it in?
This decision completely undermines the Intermediate Cup. What they have done here is created a situation whereby there is no point in entering the Intermediate Cup. All you have to do is enter the Senior Cup, lose (or give a walkover) and you bypass all the early rounds of the Intermediate Cup and go straight into the quarter finals.
Take this year for example. My own club had to play 3 rounds in the Intermediate Cup (Preliminary, Rounds 1 and 2) and we only got beaten in extra time in our third match. We got beaten and knocked out which is fair enough. What is not fair is that Cabinteely have only played one game (which they lost 7-0) and they have got a free passage now all the way to the semi finals! What makes it even harder to fathom is the fact that Cabinteely are also a "senior" team who play in the DWSL Premier so by the FAI's own rules they are not even eligible to play in the Intermediate cup! So now they have been given a free passage all the way to the semi finals of a competition they did not enter and are not supposed to be in!
Could no one on the competitions committee or in the FAI see that all theses decisions are breaking their own rules? Did nobody have the cop on just to say "No - we can't do that". Or worse still did they know they were breaking their own rules and just ignore it? Did they think we are all that stupid that we wouldn't notice? Or is this just the FAI thinking that they can do what they like and we just have to accept it? Do you think for one second this would be accepted or tolerated if these type of decisions were made in the Men's Intermediate or Junior Cups? I would love to have a meeting between the FAI and all the clubs where they should be made to explain to us why these decisions were made and what was the the thinking behind them. What I would also like to find out is who is on these FAI committees that make these rules and these decisions and what club affiliations do they have. I bet that would tell an interesting story.
Our club only found out when they sent out the fixtures for the quarter finals. We thought we were in semi-final. Contacted our representative who told us it was in the rules for this year which obviously it's not. We were then told it was ratified at a meeting in Feb. We requested these minutes through the correct channels and still have heard nothing. Nearly 4 weeks ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankly
I'm not really that surprised that they haven't got back to you.
If you have a look at rule 20 in the rules they issued it says -
Competitions Committee may alter Rules
26. The Competitions Committee shall have power to alter the FAI Women’s National Cup Rules but in no case
shall they do so until after the final match has been played.
To me that says they can't introduce new rules until the competition is over but that's just exactly what they've done.
I don't like to keep harping on about rules but if you or me broke any of them they'd come down heavy on us yet they can make up and break rules whenever they want and just expect us to accept it.
Dunmore joined the Galway League this year from the Roscommon league. Galway FA automatically entered them into the Junior Cup. Connacht Rep than rang them and told them they had to enter the interdmediate cup which they were fine with. Fixtures came out then and they saw that St. Josephs were still in the Junior Cup. They sent a few e-mails before they got a response. Response basically was 'Oversight on our behalf. Sorry!'Quote:
Originally Posted by a country voice
FAI womens branch are a serious bad unit and have been for quite a few years.This years cups are choped and changed to suit the new national league.In the past every club knew where they stood in relation to the draws and if you were lucky enough to make one of the FINALS you played in the higher competition for the next 3 years.Cup draws were attended by clubs involved also.This year is a farce Wilton have been beaten by Lifford in the senior cup find themselves in the intermediate final. While Lifford find themselves in the last 8 v near neighbours Caherdavin in the senior both having played and won 2 games each.These clubs thought they were already semi finalists having watched the earlier rounds.Now enter the Pride of the FAI the national teams having not played any games,Is the standard of football so great at league level that they have to be protected in the earlier rounds and the last 8 by the greatest of luck or unluck that the 2 limerick leag teams just happened to draw each other.I THINK NOT. This would not happen in the mens game because the clubs involved would go to the courts.St Josephs could only enter the intermediate cup this year and some club should test this in court.Strange st Josephs got caught plaiying over age players in the u16 cup a few years ago and the rule was bent to allow this to happen for one year.FAIRNESS through sport my arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by quizzical
Anyone know result of Manulla V St Jospehs? Was meant to have been on last Sunday.
Should this issues be reported to national media? We all know we will never get a response from the WFAI.
St Josephs won. Absolute joke. They're a nice bunch of girls and the people who run the club are a decent hard working bunch but they should never have been in the competition. As far as I remember they shouldn't have even been in last years competition (because of the division they were in) let alone this years.
I think the national media would be the perfect place to go with this.
It might then force the WFAI to give us some answers.
That may be so but they can read the rules like the rest of us. Wilton won the intermediate cup yesterday. Another absolute joke. The WFAI are just breaking all their own rules. As runners up of the senior cup last year they are obliged to say in the senior cup for 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankly
Both this years competitions ended up as a complete farce.
Three of the four finalists (Wilton, Peamount and St. Josephs) shouldn't have been allowed in the competitions under the FAI's own rules and the winners of the Intermediate Cup didn't even enter the competition in the first place! They were handed a quarter final place in the Intermediate cup by virtue of losing their first round match in the Senior cup. This goes beyond a joke.
The least the WFAI should do is have a meeting where any interested clubs can attend and we can see just who made these decisions and they can explain why they made them.
If anybody is interested in trying to organise a meeting along these lines let me know. If enough people are interested I'll contact the WFAI and see what they say.
I really find it hard to believe how thes cup competitions can be run so badly.Now with the National league up and running how are these rules are still broken is just giving the fingers to people who put long hours into the womens game.Can anyone anywhere justify how 2 National leaugues teams failed to field teams at he Quater final stage when they had 3 months to prepare.Castlebar and Cork ladies gave WALKOVERS at the weekend when they were included in the senior cup at the latter stages.Raheny and Peamount now contest the semi finals without kicking a ball.Lifford beat Caherdavin 2-1 to go through but it was the 3 match these 2 teams have played in the senior cup.Its sad to have one of these teams go out with other teams in the semi,s without playing.National media should take a look at the womens game its a shambles.Remember the fanfare the National league began on 26th Aug but 2 teams failed to plat on 2nd Sept.It shows why everbody involved in the mens game really looks on the womens as a JOKE. Sad but one cant defend it on this years Fiasco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankly
agree with the sentiment of your post but if Wilton entered the Sen cup and then were dropped into the inter cup as per sen cup rules how should they not have been allowed win the inter? I do agree its strange you can drop from senior to interQuote:
Originally Posted by Shankly
Joey's situation is just ridiculous
How were peamount ineligible for the final?
Farcical just about describes it. You can go further - Rovers also gave a w/o to castlebar in the opening rd, Raheny B gave a w/o to Wexford (I think having just won DWSL Prem?) so presumably Raheny had first team players with their B team? National league? Wouldn't happen in the DDSLQuote:
Originally Posted by LmkSnr
SO its quite likely that a National cup will be won by either Raheny or Peamount in their 2nd game in the competition, assuming there are no more walkovers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro m
Both Peamount and Wilton were ineligible for the Intermediate Cup under the same rule of the FAI's own rules for this years National Cup competitions - Rule 7 (f)
(f) (i) The following teams can only participate in the Senior Cup Competition:
Teams playing in the FAI Women’s National League;
Teams playing in the most senior division of a league with 3 or more divisions;
The finalists of the previous three years in the Senior Cup and the Intermediate Cup Competitions;
Both Peamount and Wilton play in the top division of a league with 3 or more divisions - the Dublin Womens Soccer League and the Cork Womens and Schoolgirl Soccer League respectively.
In the case of Wilton there are two other reasons why they shouldn't be allowed in the Intermediate Cup -
1. They were a finalist in the 2011 Senior Cup
2. The rule whereby the losers from the Senior Cup could drop down into the Intermediate Cup was not included in the FAI's Rules for National Competitions 2012 that were published and distributed to all clubs. As it states in these rules -
Competitions Committee may alter Rules
26. The Competitions Committee shall have power to alter the FAI Women’s National Cup Rules but in no case shall they do so until after the final match has been played.
What this means (my understanding of it anyway) is that unless a rule is included in the published Competition Rules for any particular year it can't be used in that years competition and can't be introduced until the competition is over.
When they were asked about this rule they said it was ratified in February. One club has asked to see the minutes of the meeting where this decision was ratified but they haven't been forthcoming as yet. The FAI didn't inform anyone of this decision and it wasn't included in this years rules which were published on the FAI website on 24th April this year.
Therefore the rule whereby the losers from the Senior Cup could drop down into the Intermediate Cup should not have been used this year.
Taken directly from the FAI website - St Joseph’s Girls retain FAI Umbro Women’s Junior Cup.
'Their win in 2011 meant that they were unable to call on any of that squad for the 2012 campaign but such is the strength in depth available to the Sallynoggin club that their management team of Christy Dodd, Thomas Watson, Mick Patton and Philip Henry were able to build a winning side around the squad which won the FAI Umbro Women's U16 Cup last year.'
This is their justification of being allowed to play in the Junior cup again. As far as I am aware there is no rule that states that you can stay in the same Cup as long as you have a completely new set of players. And an even bigger question is where is a full team of players gone since last year?