"the greener":so far so good

i have to admit that i was one of the doubters about the abilities of brian kerr when he took over in charge of our national squad.
i have to take my hat off to the guy and eat humble pie as i think he is doing a great job and is very professional but still retains his personal touch with the players.just listen to the amount of "fringe players" of the squad who say he is always in touch with them finding out how they are doing etc.

i thought that it would be all too much for him but he has so far proved me wrong.i hope he continues to do so.

keep it up brian...... :)

I still think we need to wait and see what he does in the qualifiers. He needs to weed out the dead wood from the squad (you know who I'm talking about) and if he does that, fair play to him, if he doesn't, he is just another Mick McCarthy.

Yeah, ultimately he's had one big test so far and failed. Now, he can't really be blamed for that too much as he only took over mid way through the campaign and couldn't introduce new players, but I'm reserving judgement until the we see what he does in the qualifyers.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Yeah, ultimately he's had one big test so far and failed. Now, he can't really be blamed for that too much as he only took over mid way through the campaign and couldn't introduce new players, but I'm reserving judgement until the we see what he does in the qualifyers.

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The jury is still out and I really hope he succeeds.

However he did fail in the last campaign, he did not take over mid way thorugh the campaign but after 2 games of an 8 games series. With the way the results went in other games he had a real chance of getting out of the group with a home win against Russia ( and a draw away to Switz, too lazy to go back and look at the table ). Ultimately the job was not done and the game in Basel will be remembered for a long time as a very poor performance. Brian used the excuse of a bad start too often for my liking, but I think he deserves a pass on the last campaign.

Finishing second in the forthcoming campign is a must, if we don't it's goodbye Brian.

Comparitively the performance that we have produced in freindlies (Brazil, Czech Rep. or Holland) have not been matched by the performances in competitive games. In fact while I can remember what could be called battling performances in Albania and Georgia there weren't any real quality ones (Georgia at home was the best performance but even that was hardly scintillating.) Worse than that Albania and Russia (home) and Switerland (away) were all very poor performances.
The encouraging aspect is that the better performances, in freindlies, have come since the failure to qualify for Portugal (okay Nigeria excepted). He now seems to have the team capable of playing good football and indeed quite a few chances have been produced of late.

Brilliant apart from the 2 games that really really mattered. Russia home and Switzerland away - we were toitally flat and didn't perform. The manager must carry the can here.

The friendlies have been really encouraging but we need performances and results in Basle and Paris not to mention 2 home wins v Cyprus and the Faroes.

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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

Finishing second in the forthcoming campign is a must, if we don't it's goodbye Brian.

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If we don't finish second, I honestly don't think he'll be sacked.
One of the perks of managing the Irish team is that failure seems to be acceptable, thats why we were stuck with idiots like Big Jack and Mick for so long.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

If we don't finish second, I honestly don't think he'll be sacked.
One of the perks of managing the Irish team is that failure seems to be acceptable, thats why we were stuck with idiots like Big Jack and Mick for so long.

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Big Jack and Mick ( who very much shares responsibility for last campaign ) always finished at least second and got to the play-offs at worst.

Of Charlton's 5 campaigns he qualified for 3. He finished 2nd in 1992 behind England but we did not lose a game and failed to get to Sweden, again in 1996 we finished second but lost to Holland in the play-off. Long live St Jack, where/how did Jack fail?

I don't think Mick failed either, but the FAI appointed a man with little experience but then they all do it, Germany appointing Klinsmann, if the FAI appointed Klinsmann what would we say???? Van Basten now manager of Holland??

But Kerr starts off with a young team which has been to the last WC, and has class players like Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Roy Keane and a hand full of other decent players. Finishing second and getting to the play-offs is not failure, finishing 3rd is.

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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

However he did fail in the last campaign, he did not take over mid way thorugh the campaign but after 2 games of an 8 games series.

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I think hat Slash/Ed meant was he took over without any time to bring in the players he wants. You can't expect him to make 5/6 changes midway through a qualifying campaign. Most teams go through a qualifying campaign with more or less the same set of players so Kerr was continuing where Mick left off. There has been a load of changes to the first team since the Swizz match and that is what the friendlies were for.

Also, while we probably should have beaten Russia (even without Robbie and O'Shea) I certainly wouldn't expect to beat any top 50 side away from home without Cunningham.

I'm not sure about that now, we got such a small panel it's not like he was swamped with choices. I think the loss of Keane was a huge blow as well as the loss of Staunton and Quinn, not easy to find replacements for those fellas.

BTW we qualified for the world cup without Kenny playing key games. Breen & Dunne played in Holland, it's true we don't win many away games against top 30 teams but in fairness now only a few teams do that regularly and it's not really necessary if you win the home games.

No getting way from the fact that Brian Kerr had a great chance to get a play-off play place. Anyhow lets look to the future...

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Originally Posted by EamonD

BTW we qualified for the world cup without Kenny playing key games

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If I remember correctly, Cunningham didn't get his game during the WC qualifiers. He has improved immensely over the last 4 years or so and is now one of our most important players. Anyway, I'd prefer Dunne at centre half any day over O'Shea who has played around 10 games at the top level in that position.

In all honestly, if we had any other manager for the EC qualifiers, does anyone think we would have had a better chance of qualifying? Plus, do you think so many of us would be thinking we can actually top the group if Mick was still in charge?

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Originally Posted by gspain

not to mention 2 home wins v Cyprus and the Faroes.

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I think it's even more important to get good results against Israel than both those teams you've mentioned.
Israel is an away trip that no one will fancy so the home game is vital for us to win.

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Originally Posted by davros

Good luck with the lobotomy :eek: ......you clearly know Nothing :mad:about the History of Irish soccer........ :D

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My opinion is that McCarthy and Charlton were both terrible managers.

They were lucky that at times during their respective reigns they had excellent players and extremly low expectations, making it virtually impossible to "fail". Any half decent manager could have done better than those guys in the same situation.

Like I said thats my opinion and you are not going to change it.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

My opinion is that McCarthy and Charlton were both terrible managers.

They were lucky that at times during their respective reigns they had excellent players and extremly low expectations, making it virtually impossible to "fail". Any half decent manager could have done better than those guys in the same situation.

Like I said thats my opinion and you are not going to change it.

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My word. For once I find myself agreeing with Davros.

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

My word. For once I find myself agreeing with Davros.

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It becomes really worrying when you do it a few times :eek: :D

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

My word. For once I find myself agreeing with Davros.

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Sometimes the little Buddha talks sense. Carnstein, you do talk some tripe. Half decent managers? You mean like Monty Burns in Soho Square, getting paid £4m to f*ck around and get the tans to the quarter finals of two competitions (one more stage in the competition than the idiot McCarthy :rolleyes: ).

[QUOTE=lopez]Sometimes the little Buddha talks sense.

Are you sure about that. :confused:

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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

Finishing second in the forthcoming campign is a must, if we don't it's goodbye Brian.

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It's a bit sad to be planning obituaries before we've even started.
These last few weeks before the whole thing starts up again are the best time I reckon. It's the dreamtime. We've got the fixtures. The table is still blank and I'm gone bananas with the usual '3 points here and one there and they'll drop two there etcetcetc' madness. One thing is certain though, no matter how you twist and turn it in your head, when it's all finished there'll be scorelines in there that one could never have guessed. I love dreamtime because we always finish on top. Once it starts its ******ed :)

I looked at the perfornace of Man United with and without Roy Keane
to see if he made a difference.
I found they won 22% more points when he started, which is a
pretty staggering statistic!!
22% more points would have see us qualify I beleive.
You could argue that he would have a greater effect on the Irish
team as Man U are better able to replace him

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Originally Posted by carnstien

My opinion is that McCarthy and Charlton were both terrible managers.

They were lucky that at times during their respective reigns they had excellent players and extremly low expectations, making it virtually impossible to "fail". Any half decent manager could have done better than those guys in the same situation.

Like I said thats my opinion and you are not going to change it.

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but that's not what you said earlier on at all. earlier you implied they finished worse than second (failed)and were kept on anyway. I can go and quote it if you like. you said they failed.

now in this bit you're saying they didn't fail but that they were lucky to have such good players - which is it?

mccarthy wasn't always lucky- the first 3 years we all said how well he was doing despite having a squad full of jack's aging heroes

this isn't the first time you've been woefully inconsistent now is it?

I don't expect to change your opinion- you do it yourself with astounding regularity

unless your on a wind up- actually you must be on a wind-up

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Originally Posted by Harry Tipper

It's a bit sad to be planning obituaries before we've even started.
These last few weeks before the whole thing starts up again are the best time I reckon. It's the dreamtime. We've got the fixtures. The table is still blank and I'm gone bananas with the usual '3 points here and one there and they'll drop two there etcetcetc' madness. One thing is certain though, no matter how you twist and turn it in your head, when it's all finished there'll be scorelines in there that one could never have guessed. I love dreamtime because we always finish on top. Once it starts its ******ed :)

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Wha? Just setting obvious goals. I'm writing no one off, just saying what the minimum requirements are.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

My opinion is that McCarthy and Charlton were both terrible managers.

They were lucky that at times during their respective reigns they had excellent players and extremly low expectations, making it virtually impossible to "fail". Any half decent manager could have done better than those guys in the same situation.

Like I said thats my opinion and you are not going to change it.

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Excellent players???? Have you forgotten the bunch of kids and Jack's Dad's army McCarthy inherited. He did a fine job with that lot. Great manager no, good manager yes. He like Charlton, for all thier faults, achieved a lot more than any other Irish Managers in that they got us to Major Championships. Many failed with better players.

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Originally Posted by davros

How about "We all hate M***** & M*****,we all F****** hate M*****!" ;) :p

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I dooooon't beeelive it, :eek: for once yer talking sence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carnstien

If we don't finish second, I honestly don't think he'll be sacked.
One of the perks of managing the Irish team is that failure seems to be acceptable, thats why we were stuck with idiots like Big Jack and Mick for so long.

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So if Jack didn't get the job..................Bob Paisley wouldn't have got the same out of the players and look for players the way Jack did....

Mick McCarthy..............."Mike Walker" Joe "Part Time" Kinnear - think we would be down with Norf Iron if they had the job, Mick brought players through like BK is doing now might not be to everyone's liking,bet you weren't complaining when we qualified for Japan.

I also doubted BK's appointment and after witnessing the Basle performance and the press conference after thought it will be a long road ahead.............but now that group is there to be won as long as we don't drop points at home

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Out of idle curiosity, what age are you? Not that you have to be a certain age to comment, but do you remember previous incumbents and their records and their style of play?

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Just ask if he knows who Eoin Hand is?

Lads, its getting to the stage were I have to trawl through a load of pointless posts to find something half decent. So many threads are going way off topic with 2 or 3 people having conversations between themselves.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Lads, its getting to the stage were I have to trawl through a load of pointless posts to find something half decent. So many threads are going way off topic with 2 or 3 people having conversations between themselves.

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You found something half decent here!! :eek:

Where? Can you share it with us?

Some of you either have a lot of blank space between your two lugs or are just kids. You may not be old enough to remember the bad old days of Irish soccer when coming third in qualifying was considered a great achievement. Big Jack with all his warts and unattractive tactics transformed Ireland from being a bunch of talented losers to the put'em under pressure enforcers that every big team feared playing against. True, both Jack and Mick probably did stay on a little too long and both became too fixed in their ways. But looking back, both were the right men for the right job at the right time.

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

But looking back, both were the right men for the right job at the right time.

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That's spot on, I disliked Charlton, but he got results, a huge step up from the Eoin Hand years where we enjoyed so many moral victories (failing to qaulify on goal difference etc.) but achieved little else.

I liked McCarthy, better manager than player and overall he did well, he got us playing ball again.

But the fact that we can have threads debating whether or not we can win the next qualifying group, or have threads going on about our failure to qualify for a tournament is a disaster is testament to the expectations that two decades of decent managers has introduced.

Think about it, what were the people looking forward to the qualifiers for Mexico '86 looking for compared to what we're looking forward to ahead of Germany '06. The difference there is Charlton and McCarthy.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

But the fact that we can have threads debating whether or not we can win the next qualifying group, or have threads going on about our failure to qualify for a tournament is a disaster is testament to the expectations that two decades of decent managers has introduced.

Think about it, what were the people looking forward to the qualifiers for Mexico '86 looking for compared to what we're looking forward to ahead of Germany '06. The difference there is Charlton and McCarthy.

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I was wondering in Moscow airport in October 1985 whether Ireland would ever qualify for a World Cup in my lifetime. That was what it was like then.

so briank kerr is doing a good job so far then ?
for many people,the jury is still out
for some people,the jury will always be out.

i say fair fcucks to the guy.

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Originally Posted by lopez

I was wondering in Moscow airport in October 1985 whether Ireland would ever qualify for a World Cup in my lifetime. That was what it was like then.

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I wasn't wondering. I knew but I was wrong. :) - as Jimmy Magee said in 1985 Ireland will never qualify for a major tournament in my lifetime - Jimmy is still going strong. I think Lopez and I are of a similar vintage.

We were done in 82 - no question - referee in Brussels was almost certainly bribed. also robbed of a point in Paris due to a bad refereeing decision. However 84 & 86 campaigns were depressing - ok glorious moment coming out of Lansdowne in Sept 84 after a fortunate 1-0 win over the Soviets that we might do it but cruelly crushed by mighty Norway a month later - btw for Norway 84 read Cyprus 04.

Yes we were awful to watch under Jack but we weren't exactly Brazil before that. Away from home we shut up shop passed the ball around to kill time and hung on for a draw and normally lost. Jack's first competitive away match was in Brussels and we got lucky with a late equaliser but the eprformance merited a point - it was positive in your face and we attacked the Belgians. We made things happen.

Yes I like to see Ireland play good football. Sure I'd love it if we could play like Brazil in 1970 but most of all I want to see Ireland win. A boring 1-0 win in Basel will suit just fine.

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Originally Posted by gspain

I think Lopez and I are of a similar vintage.

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I'm surprised our paths haven't crossed. Remember someone I was drinking with in Zagreb shouting to you at the under-21 game from across the road. But apart from that, zilch. I'll try to catch up with your meeting with Davros at the U21 game in Berne.

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Originally Posted by gspain

A boring 1-0 win in Basel will suit just fine.

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I hear ya, brother!
Points in the bag and off to the pub is far better than playing great football but losing and spending the next week watching the video wondering 'where did we go wrong?'

[QUOTE=davros]Won't be there,alas.....these days just rolling-up/in on the day...



YES, THERE IS A GOD AFTER ALL. :D :) :D