A Proposed Away ticketing Scheme

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16/11/2011, 10:00 AM
Newryrep

A Proposed Away ticketing Scheme

Gents see below the full details of my scheme that I outlined in YBIG 27 and posted on YBIG for your consideration. I have taken on board various comments/suggestions from a number of threads on various boards and taken into account various discussions that have taken place in various locations during various stages of inebriation.

Please consider it as a whole package �..as it is very easy to tailor a scheme to suits ones own particular circumstances, something I hope I have studiously avoided.

A Proposed Away Ticketing Scheme

Last 10 away games including away friendlies are taken into account� ie approximately two campaigns so should be a representative timescale. Scheme starts next WC campaign .

� 2 campaigns is only an approximation of the 10 games as there could be away friendlies - games in London etc would be viewed as away friendlies
� Essentially 4 years so it should be a representative timescale
� If tickets ever became scarce , then friendlies give new applicants a chance to get their foot on the ladder
� As Game 11 is added Game 1 drops off
� Next WC campaign is unlikely to be scarce for tickets so it�s a perfect test bed

Each away game is allocated 1 point , (unless allocation clearly does not cover demand) those with the most points are allocated tickets down to where the number of tickets remaining is less than the number of people on the relevant points then a ballot will be undertaken

� Straightforward 1 point no matter where the location is as long as its an away game
� Where demand exceeds supply a point is not awarded ( tickets will though) otherwise those on the most points could pull away from those on lesser points only because of the low allocation eg Andorra and not because of those on lesser points not wanting/able to go to the game.(however may be looked at if abused ie applications with no intention of going)
� Points will only be awarded if tickets are sourced from the FAI � no home tickets/freebies etc will be considered
� If implemented the TO will then be able to state that due to an allocation of x No of tickets those on y points or better are eligible for tickets � thus negating the need for every man and their dog to phone the TO in the weeks prior to a match asking for tickets tying up their resources

A Season Ticket holder will be awarded 2 points per campaign � so there is an incentive but it doesn�t unfairly impact too much on those who are not season ticket holders
� Home games are NOT a level playing field where as away games are , as practically everybody will need a flight to get to an away game ( UK away games for UK based fans notwithstanding) however��.
� Season Ticket holders/Block bookers HAVE to be incentivized/rewarded , I feel 2 points per campaign will achieve this and is a compromise on ALL parties
� The 2 points shall be added on 1st Aug at the start of the relevant campaign ie Aug 2012 Aug 2014 etc
� The maximum number of points achievable is thus 14 ie a season ticket for 2 campaigns and the full 10 away matches ie (2 x 2) + 10 = 14. Non season ticket holders maximum is 10
� At the beginning of the third campaign the first 2 points awarded for the season ticket will drop off to be replaced by another 2 if a season ticket is renewed, or none if the season ticket is not renewed
� Individual home games are not considered

Each request for tickets must be backed up by naming who the tickets are for ie the tickets can be in one name but all the recipients must be named

� Self explanatory - it is not up to the person in who�s name the tickets are in to decide who gets the tickets � it is the FAI�s. The tickets must go to the named recipients
� This should also eliminate the multiple requests from different members of the same group which distorts the actual demand and will thus make allocating tickets easier as the actual demand is known
� It is primarily to cut down on unnecessary expense rather than sending out tickets individually
� Eg Season Ticket No/Cust Ref No 15550 Newryrep � Recipients 15550A Newryrep, 15550B Mrs Newryrep

Random checks can be undertaken for proof of travel and ticket collection in the destination city is also an option

� Self explanatory � may be required if it appears the system is being abused � points can be deducted if no proof offered (the Scots acknowledge it is an issue for them)
� % Ticket collection in a destination also may be used as proof of travel as well if timescales for ticket distribution are particularly tight due to late arrival of host tickets
� A ticket stub is not proof of travel � proof required would be hotel bill in persons name ATM withdrawal/CC withdrawal, boarding pass possibly

Cost � To be honest it should be standard practice for a company to keep its customers details up to date HOWEVER if a small cost is incurred I would propose a small increase on the - 2 euro handling fee on each away ticket

� I have taken some soundings regarding the Scots system which is �20 (E23) a year but has 32500 members and I AM NOT convinced that it couldn�t be streamlined down to the basics � ie just keep our records up to date
� We don�t need a membership pack with free gift, newsletter, city guides etc so for that reason I am against a blanket payment every year from all
� We must be the only customers that have to pay to have our records updated
� Also I am loath just throwing money at a �problem� as it rarely solved anything � see Irish Health service for further proof � copyright Bertie Ahern
� HOWEVER there are likely to be some costs with it and since it is primarily an away scheme I would propose an increase in the 2 euro �handling� fee per ticket to 5 euro. (not even the price of a foaming pint of Stella Artois in Dublin)

Club allocation to remain as existing, but where tickets are scarce their normal allocation should be honored before any additional tickets are offered, same as any individual application.

� Self explanatory Where tickets are scarce a club/individuals get their normal/regular allocation, where tickets are not scarce they can have as many tickets as they want

It is by no means a perfect scheme but it is IMO
� Fair
� Transparent
� Relatively easy to understand
� Relatively easy to implement
� Not an impediment to new members
� In no way restrictive
� An incentive to become a Season Ticket Holder
� A nicely balance between the home v away, regular away v occasional away, hardcore v big game Charlie

Finally it would be in an individual fans interest to get their own record with the FAI, or as a minimum have it via a trusted partner/friend/sibling/mistress and not rely on the whims of casual acquaintances/some guy down the pub,/a dads friend 2nd cousin who if tickets are in demand for big games can withhold them if it suits them.

Also if the away game is important, handy to get to, in a glamorous destination or a combination of all three do not EXPECT to get a ticket if you have no record with the FAI, so DONT come on here/ Joe Duffy and bleat about not getting a ticket because hopefully there will be a scheme in place.

Now I am now off to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict
17/11/2011, 5:48 PM
mypost

Your methods are detailed, but I can't accept them, because I don't like the Premiership "Points Model". How would the above work when 6,000 people qualify for 85 allocated tickets as in Andorra?

In most places currently, demand meets supply, unless the stadium is in a kip e.g. Andorra, or a host association changes it at the last minute e.g. Slovakia. Only the adventurous will brave the windswept foggy rock next time (Torshavn) and only the die-hards will venture out to Indo-China on a weeknight. We'll get loads of tickets for the other venues, which should meet demand.

No system is perfect, but I think the current system is fair enough. Those who should have been there last Tuesday were there, and most of the regular travellers got a ticket for Tallinn in the end.
17/11/2011, 9:31 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

Your methods are detailed, but I can't accept them, because I don't like the Premiership "Points Model". How would the above work when 6,000 people qualify for 85 allocated tickets as in Andorra? In most places currently, demand meets supply, unless the stadium is in a kip e.g. Andorra, or a host association changes it at the last minute e.g. Slovakia. Only the adventurous will brave the windswept foggy rock next time (Torshavn) and only the die-hards will venture out to Indo-China on a weeknight. We'll get loads of tickets for the other venues, which should meet demand.

No system is perfect, but I think the current system is fair enough. Those who should have been there last Tuesday were there, and most of the regular travellers got a ticket for Tallinn in the end.

If its the first game in the 10 matches then probably old records if they exist if not the first game those on the most points obviously
what current system would that be exactly although some effort appears to have been made to reward regulars in Tallinn
18/11/2011, 12:00 AM
ArdeeBhoy

One small problem Nr. You have to factor in the FAI Council & Abbey Travel (amongst others), who are variables somewhat difficult to account for.

Also the names thing will be difficult to enforce. The FAI already insist on name and address/ hotel/travel details already for SC tickets which are often just made up.
18/11/2011, 2:52 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

If its the first game in the 10 matches then probably old records if they exist if not the first game those on the most points obviously

You see, this is where it becomes rather unworkable. I wouldn't want to be the ticket office telling Abbey, "Right lads, this is the 85th person's ticket, and he has more right to get his ticket than the 86th", who has the same number of points and been to the same number of games. Also games in London, are officially classified as "neutral" games.

Like I said, most people that regularly travel away from home are looked after. I was only on two trips in the campaign. One had lots of tickets available, one had limited tickets. I still got into both games. Only once have I failed to get into an away game, in Prague. And we lost the game anyway.
18/11/2011, 9:39 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

One small problem Nr. You have to factor in the FAI Council & Abbey Travel (amongst others), who are variables somewhat difficult to account for.

Also the names thing will be difficult to enforce. The FAI already insist on name and address/ hotel/travel details already for SC tickets which are often just made up.

Not sure what your point is the away tickets to be distributed are our allocation less players/sponsors/FAI staff/clubs and Abbey etc. There will never be a set number of tickets

The name thing will be difficult to enforce and there is a certain amount of honesty required HOWEVER you Randomly COULD be asked to provide details to show that Joe Bloggs travelled or Joe Bloggs in person may be asked to collect in destination city
18/11/2011, 9:42 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

You see, this is where it becomes rather unworkable. I wouldn't want to be the ticket office telling Abbey, "Right lads, this is the 85th person's ticket, and he has more right to get his ticket than the 86th", who has the same number of points and been to the same number of games. Also games in London, are officially classified as "neutral" games.

Like I said, most people that regularly travel away from home are looked after. I was only on two trips in the campaign. One had lots of tickets available, one had limited tickets. I still got into both games. Only once have I failed to get into an away game, in Prague. And we lost the game anyway.

Abbeys Tickets are not included - I assume they pay a premium to FAI for access to % of tickets - this will be unchanged. Abbey can give their tickets to people who have never been to a game in their life - thats their perogative

while they may be classed as neutral the majority of fans have to get a plane/boat to them - UK fans not withstanding
18/11/2011, 10:01 AM
jbyrne

no system will ever be ideal but a system of some sort needs to be come up with for sure. the situation for Estonia where tickets were allocated to lads not even travelling was plain ridiculous.

tickets procured previously through abbey travel or other agencies should count as well as those got direct from the FAI. Lots of regulars travel with agencies not just to secure tickets but also due to the direct flights etc they provide.

home season tickets should also count to some extent. yes, some of our regular travellers dont live in Ireland and cant always make home games but that does not mean that those who do go to the home games all the time shouldnt get some away match ticket allocation credit. as i said at the start no system will ever be ideal.

a travel club with an annual subscription would be a start. maybe the more games you actually go to the less your membership fee or similar
18/11/2011, 11:48 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

.

tickets procured previously through abbey travel or other agencies should count as well as those got direct from the FAI. Lots of regulars travel with agencies not just to secure tickets but also due to the direct flights etc they provide.

home season tickets should also count to some extent. yes, some of our regular travellers dont live in Ireland and cant always make home games but that does not mean that those who do go to the home games all the time shouldnt get some away match ticket allocation credit. as i said at the start no system will ever be ideal.

a travel club with an annual subscription would be a start. maybe the more games you actually go to the less your membership fee or similar

This will not work - Abbey decide who they give the tickets to not the FAI , those who travel with Abbey have a record with Abbey - they have no record with the FAI. If they continue to travel with Abbey you would imagine that they will have tickets but if Abbey cant supply them with a ticket for what ever reason , they missed a few trips, had a falling out, tickets are particurliy scarce , Abbey go bust or they only got a minimum allocation etc the FAI will have no record of them. The record is with Abbey eg Abbey Travel 200 tickets - they can give them to 200 first timers if they like

No other travel group get tickets officially

ST/BB get 2 points per campaign ie the equivalent of 2 away trip

I am trying to keep this simple and at minimal cost (given the present circumstances) - I think an additional charge of 3 euro per away ticket should accomplish that (5 euro in total x 5 games - 25 euro per campaign if you went to all 5 games)
18/11/2011, 12:30 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

This will not work - Abbey decide who they give the tickets to not the FAI , those who travel with Abbey have a record with Abbey - they have no record with the FAI. If they continue to travel with Abbey you would imagine that they will have tickets but if Abbey cant supply them with a ticket for what ever reason , they missed a few trips, had a falling out, tickets are particurliy scarce , Abbey go bust or they only got a minimum allocation etc the FAI will have no record of them. The record is with Abbey eg Abbey Travel 200 tickets - they can give them to 200 first timers if they like

but if abbey travellers have to go to the FAI for any reason (eg. not all abbey travellers got tickets to Estonia) then the fact that they did travel before should count. in fact you can be 100% sure that those who got tickets through abbey actually attended as you cant travel under anyone elses name. the same cant be guaranteed for those who get FAI tickets.
18/11/2011, 12:42 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

but if abbey travellers have to go to the FAI for any reason (eg. not all abbey travellers got tickets to Estonia) then the fact that they did travel before should count. in fact you can be 100% sure that those who got tickets through abbey actually attended as you cant travel under anyone elses name. the same cant be guaranteed for those who get FAI tickets.

they will count if they have got their tickets from the FAI ie the FAI send out their tickets to them as they will have a record with the FAI. If they get their tickets off Abbey direct the FAI wont have a record. Abbey decides who gets their tickets not FAI
18/11/2011, 1:01 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

they will count if they have got their tickets from the FAI ie the FAI send out their tickets to them as they will have a record with the FAI. If they get their tickets off Abbey direct the FAI wont have a record. Abbey decides who gets their tickets not FAI

why should those who get their tickets through the FAI direct be treated as more deserving than those who previously got through Abbey?
how hard would it be for abbey to supply a list of who went with them before to the FAI for the purposes of allocating hard to get ticket games??
18/11/2011, 1:17 PM
footballplease

while i understand the attraction with giving the away tickets to the most deserving, what about those younger fans who are just starting to get a few quid together and go to away games, how do they enter the 'golden circle'? I know they can go to some of the lower key games, but still.

Also, i went to a load of away games in the italia 90, 92, 94, 96 and 98 qualifiers. Due to marriage, kids, etc i couldnt get to any more. If this is to be based, say, on the last 10 away games, im snookered as we are lining up the faroes, sweden and germany for the next qualifiers.
18/11/2011, 1:32 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by footballplease

while i understand the attraction with giving the away tickets to the most deserving, what about those younger fans who are just starting to get a few quid together and go to away games, how do they enter the 'golden circle'?

this is a problem that arose in the old stadium. older lads who had been block bookers for years kept getting tickets while the BB waiting list never really moved anywhere. If those older lads where actually going that was obviously fine but i know of many BB allocations that just swapped hands while those on the waiting list couldnt get anywhere.

Unless it could be proved that the person allocated the away ticket actually used that ticket themselves it could lead to lads continuing to take away tickets and passing them on to others while picking and choosing the away matches they went to. I know the production of ID etc could be a way round this but would the FAI really be bothered?
18/11/2011, 4:10 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

Abbeys Tickets are not included - I assume they pay a premium to FAI for access to % of tickets - this will be unchanged. Abbey can give their tickets to people who have never been to a game in their life - thats their perogative

while they may be classed as neutral the majority of fans have to get a plane/boat to them - UK fans not withstanding

Abbey are the FAI's travel partner, or travel club if you like, and (I assume) they get priority in every allocation. The tickets come in, they get whatever amount they need for whoever booked with them, and the rest of us have whatever's left. Abbey assure their bookers that they will get a ticket. It's people that went independently that got screwed in Tallinn.
18/11/2011, 4:42 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

why should those who get their tickets through the FAI direct be treated as more deserving than those who previously got through Abbey?
how hard would it be for abbey to supply a list of who went with them before to the FAI for the purposes of allocating hard to get ticket games??

Not hard at all but it would be up to Abbey to manage not the FAI, If for what ever reason you dont get a ticket take it up with Abbey not the FAI
18/11/2011, 4:47 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by footballplease

while i understand the attraction with giving the away tickets to the most deserving, what about those younger fans who are just starting to get a few quid together and go to away games, how do they enter the 'golden circle'? I know they can go to some of the lower key games, but still.

Also, i went to a load of away games in the italia 90, 92, 94, 96 and 98 qualifiers. Due to marriage, kids, etc i couldnt get to any more. If this is to be based, say, on the last 10 away games, im snookered as we are lining up the faroes, sweden and germany for the next qualifiers.

What Golden Circle - every body is starting from scratch

Excluding the play offs barely 2 away games in 10 years have had ticket issues Andorra and Zilina - How are you excluded ?

You will get a ticket for Faores, Kasachstan and will probably get one for Austria /Swedan and will more than likely get one for Germany
18/11/2011, 4:49 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

Abbey are the FAI's travel partner, or travel club if you like, and (I assume) they get priority in every allocation. The tickets come in, they get whatever amount they need for whoever booked with them, and the rest of us have whatever's left. Abbey assure their bookers that they will get a ticket. It's people that went independently that got screwed in Tallinn.

I would assume they are entitled to a percentage - otherwise only those that got tickets for Andorra would of been with Abbey - which wasnt the case
18/11/2011, 4:53 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

Not hard at all but it would be up to Abbey to manage not the FAI, If for what ever reason you dont get a ticket take it up with Abbey not the FAI

my point is if abbey dont get enough tickets to satisfy demand for their regulars then fans who got tickets from them before should get the same credit for travelling to support the team as those who got from FAI previously when it comes to allocating the FAIs tickets. Eg. a fan who went with Abbey to estonia last week should get 1 point under the system proposed and someone who got a ticket from the FAI direct should get a point also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

Abbey are the FAI's travel partner, or travel club if you like, and (I assume) they get priority in every allocation. The tickets come in, they get whatever amount they need for whoever booked with them, and the rest of us have whatever's left. Abbey assure their bookers that they will get a ticket. It's people that went independently that got screwed in Tallinn.

not true. they only get a certain percentage and last week they carried people who they were not in a position to provide tickets for. i know a few fans who were offered packages with abbey without match tickets as their allocation was gone.
18/11/2011, 7:34 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

my point is if abbey dont get enough tickets to satisfy demand for their regulars then fans who got tickets from them before should get the same credit for travelling to support the team as those who got from FAI previously when it comes to allocating the FAIs tickets. Eg. a fan who went with Abbey to estonia last week should get 1 point under the system proposed and someone who got a ticket from the FAI direct should get a point also.

I am not against it in principal ,just dont think that if tickets are tight, there wouldnt be many outside of Abbey regulars entitled (for want of a better word) to tickets, I might be wrong. But it would be fair if somebody has in theory enough points through Abbey they would be entitled to tickets - however it would probably have to come out of Abbey allocation as there will be those in Abbey allocation who could be first timers who technically wouldnt be entitled but can get a ticket through Abbey -as is their want make sense ?
21/11/2011, 11:31 AM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

I am not against it in principal ,just dont think that if tickets are tight, there wouldnt be many outside of Abbey regulars entitled (for want of a better word) to tickets, I might be wrong. But it would be fair if somebody has in theory enough points through Abbey they would be entitled to tickets - however it would probably have to come out of Abbey allocation as there will be those in Abbey allocation who could be first timers who technically wouldnt be entitled but can get a ticket through Abbey -as is their want make sense ?

its more for the likes of Andorra where Abbey did not run a package. In that case everyone was left looking for tickets from the FAI and that is a scenario when points earned through travelling with abbey would come into play when the allocation of FAI tickets is decided. an extreme example I know but the principle of fans gettinmg points for travelling through abbey is important.

also lets say someone has travelled with abbey for a full qualification group and Abbey lose the FAI contract for the next campaign. despite travelling to a full group of away games they would be at the bottom of the FAI pecking order for ticket allocation if they did not get the recognition for their travels purely because they chose to get tickets through abbey than the FAI previously.
21/11/2011, 12:11 PM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

also lets say someone has travelled with abbey for a full qualification group and Abbey lose the FAI contract for the next campaign. despite travelling to a full group of away games they would be at the bottom of the FAI pecking order for ticket allocation if they did not get the recognition for their travels purely because they chose to get tickets through abbey than the FAI previously.

Like I said JB I am not against it in principal as anybody who travels should get the point but it would be up to Abbey to
1. Pass on the information
2 Pass on the correct information

as the FAI send the tickets out to Abbey
23/11/2011, 9:52 PM
Junior

As Abbey are the FAIs Partner I think its fair to say its a joint responsibility for Abbey & the FAI to maintain records of those who have travelled with the official travel partner and been allocated the match tickets.
20/01/2012, 4:43 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

its more for the likes of Andorra where Abbey did not run a package. In that case everyone was left looking for tickets from the FAI and that is a scenario when points earned through travelling with abbey would come into play when the allocation of FAI tickets is decided. an extreme example I know but the principle of fans gettinmg points for travelling through abbey is important.

also lets say someone has travelled with abbey for a full qualification group and Abbey lose the FAI contract for the next campaign. despite travelling to a full group of away games they would be at the bottom of the FAI pecking order for ticket allocation if they did not get the recognition for their travels purely because they chose to get tickets through abbey than the FAI previously.

Abbey won't lose the contract, as effectively there isn't one. They only became the FAI's travel agency because the last one went bust. And that's the only way Abbey will lose whatever contract, if any, there is.

Most people who went with the FAI during this campaign will get their allocation for the finals. There's no need for points systems and proof of travel. The away fans are getting priority, which is fair enough.