Danny mills' england comments in relation to ireland

Danny Mills has slammed the English U-21 team for playing like robots (see ESPN article excerpt below). He's right and it seems that the powers that be in English football are finally beginning to wake up and see that they'll never win anything as long as they play hoofball. As much as Irish fans might like to think that our lads play differently in the national team - we don't. We are slaves to the rythm of English football and have been headed down the wrong road for decades. Hopefully the authorities in both England and Ireland will wake up to the fact very soon that we need to be producing a technically skilled footballer for the future.

Mills' comments:

Former England right-back Mills believes the problem is symptomatic of the way players are mollycoddled through the formative stages of their careers, meaning they no longer have the ability to think for themselves on the pitch.

Mills, who was out in Denmark at the tournament covering the games for the media, said: "When these youngsters are playing for England, they are fearful. They seem to be too aware they are under scrutiny. None of those players had the confidence or wherewithal to play and get England through.

"I appreciate they're young and still learning the game. But let's not forget either, they're not playing against senior professionals, they're playing against their peers. Nobody had the ability on the pitch to stand up and say, 'Right, this isn't going well, I'm going to change this and make a difference'.

"That's because academies are now almost creating robotic players, who have had everything done for them from the age of nine. Ever since that age, they've been told what to do and they can't think for themselves.

"It's hard for the players because they've been brought up this way. But we have to change it for the younger generation moving through the system. We have to realise the old English style of football isn't quite good enough to compete at the very highest level.

"That's why we haven't won anything since 1966. We've got to the odd quarter-final but that isn't good enough for a nation like England. The players have got to be able to express themselves out there and the shackles have to be released. If not, it will be a long, long time before we win anything else.

he's right, funny to here it came from danny mills of all people

He's spot on.

I played schoolboy football for one of the most successful clubs in Ireland and the ethos at that club was win at all cost and don't worry about the opposition having the ball, just ensure they can't do anything with it.

I noticed a marked difference whenever we went abroad to play international tournaments with other schoolboy teams from around Europe. Their players we so technically gifted and the scorelines between the other teams in the groups were 4-3 and 4-4 etc, whereas our three games ended 0-0. I gather in some countries in Europe, schoolboy teams don't play league matches till about 10 or 11. They spend the first 4 years coaching the technical skills and scorelines etc are unimportant.

The way Irish kids are coached is so wrong. I have seen plenty of kids with so much potential, have their confidence completely shattered by over zealous managers and parents on the sideline berating them for the tiniest mistake made.

Also I specifically remember playing a semi final in a national competition, where we were 2-1 up with about two minutes to go. The opposition had a man clean through on the goals and the cry from the manager to the last defender was "Floor him." He duly did and was sent off. Fouled him just outside the box, conceding a free kick which they failed to convert. The heroes reception that player got at the final whistle will always stick in my mind. Imagine a club that has produced Irish internationals and EPL players endorsing that kind of cynicism and dishonesty in the game? Even as a 14 year old lad, I knew there was something inherently wrong with the way kids are coached here.

he's right, funny to here it came from danny mills of all people

True. But right nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

He's spot on.

I played schoolboy football for one of the most successful clubs in Ireland and the ethos at that club was win at all cost and don't worry about the opposition having the ball, just ensure they can't do anything with it.

I noticed a marked difference whenever we went abroad to play international tournaments with other schoolboy teams from around Europe. Their players we so technically gifted and the scorelines between the other teams in the groups were 4-3 and 4-4 etc, whereas our three games ended 0-0. I gather in some countries in Europe, schoolboy teams don't play league matches till about 10 or 11. They spend the first 4 years coaching the technical skills and scorelines etc are unimportant.

The way Irish kids are coached is so wrong. I have seen plenty of kids with so much potential, have their confidence completely shattered by over zealous managers and parents on the sideline berating them for the tiniest mistake made.

Also I specifically remember playing a semi final in a national competition, where we were 2-1 up with about two minutes to go. The opposition had a man clean through on the goals and the cry from the manager to the last defender was "Floor him." He duly did and was sent off. Fouled him just outside the box, conceding a free kick which they failed to convert. The heroes reception that player got at the final whistle will always stick in my mind. Imagine a club that has produced Irish internationals and EPL players endorsing that kind of cynicism and dishonesty in the game? Even as a 14 year old lad, I knew there was something inherently wrong with the way kids are coached here.

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He's (Danny Mills) spot on, and so are you with this assessment French Toast.

Coaches in Ireland (and England) do coach the wrong way. I played for Shelbourne and Home Farm when I lived in Ireland and the ethos (as you correctly point out) is totally devoid of technical skill. Having coached in America, we would play 4 v 4 until the age of 12 and then increase numbers. America, mark my words, is an upcoming power and Ireland will be left behind.

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Originally Posted by the bear

he's right, funny to here it came from danny mills of all people

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He's on Newstalk most monday evenings during the season... Not the worst.

Danny Mills talks a lot of sense a lot if the time. Unfortunately no one is grabbing the bull by the horns here. The national academy thread has discussed this.

During the must win game for England v Czech, in the first half the England back 4 were stroking the ball around, comfortable enough despite 2 Czech players closing them down, patient sensible play waiting for the right move. Then there comes a loud shout from Pearce - 'GET IT TO FCK OUT OF THERE'.

I honestly think the weather particularly in Ireland plays a big part to how we play at underage, or at least when I was underage.

With me it was the landscape, made a difference if we were playing uphill or downhill.

Paul, I thought you were still underage?

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Also I specifically remember playing a semi final in a national competition, where we were 2-1 up with about two minutes to go. The opposition had a man clean through on the goals and the cry from the manager to the last defender was "Floor him." He duly did and was sent off. Fouled him just outside the box, conceding a free kick which they failed to convert. The heroes reception that player got at the final whistle will always stick in my mind. Imagine a club that has produced Irish internationals and EPL players endorsing that kind of cynicism and dishonesty in the game? Even as a 14 year old lad, I knew there was something inherently wrong with the way kids are coached here.

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I dont know, I agree with most of your points, but is there an Italian (for example) last man who would not do the same? Of course, this would involve them letting go of your jersey for long enough to get away on goal in the first place.

There are similarities between this thread and the National Academy one. If this debate continues I promise to keep out of it as I get the feeling i have bored the pants of many with my views!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I honestly think the weather particularly in Ireland plays a big part to how we play at underage, or at least when I was underage.

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and the pitches. most public pitches in Ireland are a disgrace with little interest from the councils to upkeep them

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Originally Posted by gastric

There are similarities between this thread and the National Academy one. If this debate continues I promise to keep out of it as I get the feeling i have bored the pants of many with my views!

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I wouldn't say that. if anyone has an interest in this they will more than take your views on board.

mods should combine.

Danny Mills slamming English football for playing like robots? Thats like Danny Dyer slamming producers for all the violence and swearing on TV.

He is right though!

Can't help but get the feeling that England just weren't good enough also - they seemed to pass it around ok against lesser teams in qualifying and the pre-tournament friendlies but were found totally wanting at the finals tournament against superior opposition.

read an article ages ago about a manager (possibly Wenger) complaining that the weather in England doesn't lend itself to teaching kids about trapping the ball, dribbling techniques, etc, because the amount of wind on the pitches makes the movement of the ball too unpredictable

When we're playing at home, if the ball is stroked around at the back for anything more than 30 seconds the crowd gets ancy. It's not something we should be smug about.

No man has the right to fix the boundary of smugness.
It's hard to be humble when it is the coach who is doing the shouting, when it's the great English team with financial back up and player resources infinitely greater than anything Ireland has, when they resemble an incoherent rabble in regards to tactical and technical ability.

I watched the Dutch U17s struggle against North Korea last night (FIFA U17 WC) , and play a lot of hoofball. We'd have been proud of the Dutch equaliser - a clearance from a CB that was 40 yards in the air, eluded the NK CBs and the Dutch forward latched onto it. Straight out of the GAA manual. The finish was pretty classy though, very similar to Mick Byrne's third goal at Milltown against Dundalk in a 5-0 win, around 1989 I think. (Strange game, Dundalk were the better team.) I'm sure many here remember it :)

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

When we're playing at home, if the ball is stroked around at the back for anything more than 30 seconds the crowd gets ancy. It's not something we should be smug about.

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Reminds of an arsehole sitting beside me at Rovers vs UCD on Saturday

He was moaning when someone misplaced a pass "these lads can't string two passes together" then when we were playing it around the park doing some patient build-up play he was moaning "get it in the ****ing box for ****s sake"

You can't win with those people, There does seem to be an attitude of getting the ball in the box as soon as possible

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I watched the Dutch U17s struggle against North Korea last night (FIFA U17 WC) , and play a lot of hoofball. We'd have been proud of the Dutch equaliser - a clearance from a CB that was 40 yards in the air, eluded the NK CBs and the Dutch forward latched onto it.

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Van Gaal would never resort to such tactics.

You did see the Czechs lumping it forward continually in the last 15 mins until they got an equaliser. The Spanish played with the ball firmly on the ground until they got a late equaliser in their u21 sf.
Anyway it's a sign of a good team when they can play good technical football and use their technique to exploit when they have to lump it into the box.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

and the pitches. most public pitches in Ireland are a disgrace with little interest from the councils to upkeep them

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I referee in my local league and recently a new astro pitch was opened and the diffrence in standard with the games played on a level astro pitch compared to a boggy downhill pitch is amazing the games played on astro are of a very high temp and extremely high scoring where as on the crap pitch it's slow and usually 1-0

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I watched the Dutch U17s struggle against North Korea last night (FIFA U17 WC) , and play a lot of hoofball. We'd have been proud of the Dutch equaliser - a clearance from a CB that was 40 yards in the air, eluded the NK CBs and the Dutch forward latched onto it.

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Seen the second half of that game alright - jeez was a brutal game and to be fair to the Dutch the Koreans took the sting out of the game by constantly falling around the pitch every 5 mins - shud have had 10 mins extra time not 5!!!!!! Was strange seeing a dutch winger get by a player on the wing and then see that there was no one to pass to at all then beat the player again to go back and try and long ball it into the box where there were about 5 Dutch players waiting for it - total football it was not!
The koreans were woeful, and fell over the ball everytime they got near the Dutch goal - and they had loads of good chances too.
Was thinking of this thread while watching the game wondering that it must be only the Spanish that can play this passing game everyone keeps talking about.:)

Its refreshing that the English in general seem to finally be warming to the idea that their national side is absolute garbage. Seems like it only took 20 years of being muck for that to sink in.

I prefer it though that they think its great so we can enjoy the bi-annual car crash.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Its refreshing that the English in general seem to finally be warming to the idea that their national side is absolute garbage. Seems like it only took 20 years of being muck for that to sink in.

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I'm not sure Martin Tyler has got the message yet.

Most of the English fans/public have got the message but their media continue to talk crap

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Originally Posted by cornflakes

Most of the English fans/public have got the message but their media continue to talk crap

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Exactly. Scroll down to the part about "Montenegro should be of no concern to Engand". The sheer arrogance is baffling.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...tional-weekend

To be fair an England team shud be beating a bad Montenego team - whats wrong with that?

Facts don't bear that out though do they?

This is a Montenegro team that is level on points with England and drew with them in Wembley. Its the sheer arrogance of that article particularly in light of the fact that it's written in the immediate aftermath of another poor performance by England against Switzerland.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Facts don't bear that out though do they?

This is a Montenegro team that is level on points with England and drew with them in Wembley. Its the sheer arrogance of that article particularly in light of the fact that it's written in the immediate aftermath of another poor performance by England against Switzerland.

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U mean the stats. They are a rubbish team (as are England but u would reckon they could muster a decent 11 from the EPL?)
And Switerland were muck too

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Exactly. Scroll down to the part about "Montenegro should be of no concern to Engand". The sheer arrogance is baffling.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...tional-weekend

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ok... why don't you post the full quote "They should be of no concern to England. They probably will be.".... not quite as arrogant me thinks.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Paul, I thought you were still underage?

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yes relative to you.

uphill, downhill, downhill from left to right.

The wet weather and teh wind, where the ball wont go 5 yards along the ground, hoof ball is the only way....

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

and the pitches. most public pitches in Ireland are a disgrace with little interest from the councils to upkeep them

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Thats because outside of dublin anyway most pitches are owned by the clubs.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

read an article ages ago about a manager (possibly Wenger) complaining that the weather in England doesn't lend itself to teaching kids about trapping the ball, dribbling techniques, etc, because the amount of wind on the pitches makes the movement of the ball too unpredictable

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As usual I'm right, only this time(there is evidence of one) I have an expert in the field, to back me up :D

Double entendre intended.

People speak about coaching and whatnot but ultimately I think the reason why the UK produce such bad players is down to culture. British culture is a tabloid culture, that cherishes famous people for fame alone rather than their talent. Its not coincidence the UK is regarded worldwide as having a wide range of the most awful bands ever seen, none of them musically astute; all of them trying to be stars. This is the land that invented the Popstars / X-Factor / American Idol format, a system designed to churn out textbook singers of established songs, a system designed to override the less glamorous but fundamental element of song writing. The part of music which most would regard as the most difficult and the most critical to excellence.

Soccer is the same, oodles of players over there who know the status of a "footballer" and covet it. Many who are fine athletes who do excellent gym work and can follow instructions to a tee, few whose motivation to play for the love of the game is convincing. Very few british players leave their shores for that reason, they know they won't be a star in another country and will be judged far moreso on their technical ability and football intelligence, of which almost all of them are lacking.

It unfortunately trickles into Ireland. To use a comparison the English rugby squad has a very similar mindset to the English soccer squad, the corresponding leagues as well. But the Irish rugby squad has a vastly different mindset, its stronger, galvinised, focused on teamwork and skillsets. These are guys who are coached well through the system and playing the game for no other reason than the love of it. We have no Hensons, Powells, Cipriani or whatnot in this country showing that tabloid culture is present in British Rugby but not in Irish rugby. We have the same deal in GAA as well

The problem for us is how our soccer league remains so heavily influenced by a UK mindset while our other sports don't. Its been said a million times before but having our players playing in other leagues than England and Scotland would benefit us immensely, its nothing but bad news to have our players coached through the ranks in a culture like that.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Its not coincidence the UK is regarded worldwide as having a wide range of the most awful bands ever seen, none of them musically astute; all of them trying to be stars.

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I actually think that they have also given the world some of the best rock / pop music too. I think every country has some degree of "talent show" obsession.

I don't live in Ireland, but always seems to notice media coverage of Leinster & Ireland rugby stars at celebrity weddings, queen's dinners etc. The Hensons & Powells of the game in the UK (Welsh, not English btw) are only some examples and are not wholly representative of our rugby culture being better than "theirs". Whose U20 rugby team is in the World Cup Final, while ours might come eighth? Sure our own Trevor Brennan was a flippin' fruitjob too.

I agree that our football playing culture is very similar though. In fairness, it'd be very hard for us to adopt a distinct Eastern European or Latin playing style when our game has been so intertwined with the English game over the generations. It's not just football - our whole society is. Look at what TV shows are popular, and music etc..

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I actually think that they have also given the world some of the best rock / pop music too. I think every country has some degree of "talent show" obsession.

I don't live in Ireland, but always seems to notice media coverage of Leinster & Ireland rugby stars at celebrity weddings, queen's dinners etc. The Hensons & Powells of the game in the UK (Welsh, not English btw) are only some examples and are not wholly representative of our rugby culture being better than "theirs". Whose U20 rugby team is in the World Cup Final, while ours might come eighth? Sure our own Trevor Brennan was a flippin' fruitjob too.

I agree that our football playing culture is very similar though. In fairness, it'd be very hard for us to adopt a distinct Eastern European or Latin playing style when our game has been so intertwined with the English game over the generations. It's not just football - our whole society is. Look at what TV shows are popular, and music etc..

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I'm not really sure I'd believe that, take Munster rugby for example. Its a very, very strong self-contained sporting culture there. Same with Kerry football or Kilkenny hurling. They're uninfluenced by anything but themselves, they have their own style of play that is timeless passing through generations and have been at the top of their sport for so long and will continue to do so in the future. We have a similar culture to England sure, but as we do with the US or Australia as well, I feel like soccer in this country is far more intertwined and influenced by England than it really should be.
I know GAA and Hurling aren't great examples since they aren't professional or played outside this country but rugby really is a great example of how we can breed successful teams and players with their own style unique to the country who aren't inheriting the flaws of our neighbours. Rugby players in Ireland are just so technically better than their equivalent in England, they're trained and coached vastly differently with different philosophies and its plain to see watching them. For a foreigner watching english and Irish players they could be forgiven for thinking they were interchangeable, they're very alike. Which is not necessarily a situation we "have" to be in, since we aren't in other sports is the point I'm trying to make.

If we can't support our own league in this country I think it'd benefit our squad more if they were in better technical leagues than the EPL.

English club sides have done very well in Europe over the years so they must be doing something right.