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Just something I picked up on last night while watching the Eng V Japan game and as a follow on of sorts to a previous thread. It is worth comparing the games/ goal scored of both players while playing for their countries.
Robbie - 51 Games 19 Goals
Michael - 54 Games 24 Goals
Not much difference really, although I do admit Owen is far more prolific in the Premier league.
Owen has 25 goals now. :)
both excellent records. Owen is more of a natural goalscorer though Robbie has a bit more to his overall game IMO. Standing behind the goal Irealnd where attacking against Romania last week I just wished Robbie would crack one now and again rather than over elaborating. People like Shearer can do all this fancy crap but would rather score. Sometimes you wish Robbie didn't want to walk it into the net so often.
Record shows how well Robbie has done playing for a lesser side . Hopefully if Tottenham gets a decent manager in the summer they will be able to develop his game and encourage to shoot earlier and not have so many fancy touches
I am a big fan of Keane but if you look at his goal scoring record in qualifying games it is not as good as it might be. This is off the top of my head so you you will understand if I'm not 100% accurate. In the qualifiers for Euro 2000 he scored 4 goals, 3 of which were against Malta, the other against Turkey in the play-off. For the 2002 WC he scored 2 goals, one against Holland the other against Iran, both big games I know but all I'm trying to do here is look at the stats. Finally the last campaign, 2 goals in games against Georgia and Albania respectively. He has 3 in the WC and the rest are all in friendlies.
Two goals in each of the last 2 campaigns is not a great return goal scoring wise. What he does have though that other forwards don't have is the ability to get something out of nothing and he will nearly always contribute something to the team even when playing poorly as his work rate is top notch. What it does show, especially in the context of the WC 2002 campaign is that we don't rely too heavily on our strikers and that we have (or at least we had then) goals all over our team. I don't want this post to be interpreted as Keane-bashing. All I am doing is outlining his goal scoring record in the context of his overall contribution to the team so that people can make up their own minds.
In comparing Owen and Keane you are comparing a very much overated player and a very much underated player.
Keane has far more to his game than Owen and when he is not scoring he contributes far more, in terms of holding up the ball and playing in team mates, than the Englishman (plus he can score a penalty).
And to top it off, Owen's goalscoring record is not that much better than Robbie's at any level, international or domestic. Owen managed 16 premiership goals this season, while Robbie managed 13.
Take it as a fair point Paulie. To be fair missed quite a few games in last qualifiers and had a tough time what with his dad dying and all. Did well at the world cup finals. 3 in 4 matches ain't too bad. Also got to look to his youth and lack of quality partners for lack of goals. I'm a massive Keane fan but wish he could be more clinical too. To be honet though Shearer was much the same in his early career with a fairly average scoring record. Came into his own at about Keane's age. Still don't think Robbie has even nearly reached his peak yet.
Just to take Robbie out of the argument for a second. If Owen was playing at club and international level with better players (remember he's partnered with Heskey at both) or with tactically better managers he'd score a lot more goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by carnstien
I think if you look at Owen's goal to chances ratio it would be quite high.
Given theior respective styles, the could well form a decent partnership (if a tiny one) with each other.
Same can be said for Robbie though. Owen is playing for a team who have qualified for the champions league whereas robbie is with a struggling side. Again on International level Owen is playing with better players thus his scoring record should be that much better. Robbie has an excellent scoring record and the recent stick he is getting is not needed at all. Support the kid he is only 23 or else we will have the kevin gallen fans on for him to replace robbie !!!!
[QUOTE=carnstien]In comparing Owen and Keane you are comparing a very much overated player and a very much underated player.
I know the thread title was about comparing the two but that was not my intention. I was just leaving Owen aside for a second and looking at Keane's record on it's own. As I said I'm a big fan of Keane but I think that in terms of qualifying games he should be scoring more goals.
Well said. Heard a lot of people shout over the top abuse at Robbie during Romania game for over elaborating. This is frustrating i know but there is no need for the stick. He's 23 he's already eclipsing Ireland greats like Aldo, Quinner and Stapleton and he's our only world class striker. Robbie will continue to improve. I think people forget he's only a year or 2 older than the likes of Miller, Reid and Elliott.Quote:
Originally Posted by only1kilbane
Owen made his debut v Chile in February 1998
Robbie made his debut v Czech Republic 25th of March 1998 and since Robbie is the best part of 7 months younger than Owen I think that Robbie has plenty time to eclipse the scouser poof!
Errrm... not that it matters, but isn't Owen married with a child? You may not like the man but using sexuality as a basis for slander is not on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
:ball: PP
I wasn't referring to his sexual orientation, merely that he's a little girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
Anyway that guy on Corrie got Sarah Louise pregnant and was going to marry her but he's gay!
Thast should say "Owen has 25 goals now. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
;)
Ha Ha...well said. Owen is a mammy's boy from the same area as the hollyoaks types. His advert for that washing powder speaks for itself. Give us a break!!! 'Thanks Mum'...my arse :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
There's only one keano, one keano :ball:
Paulie - I noticed you never seem to get the quotes right. It should be like this:
{QUOTE=username} {/QUOTE}
(replace the { with [ )
Anyway, back on topic. Robbie has twice as much work rate as Owen and I think Owen would really struggle in an average team. I thought Keane would have caught up with Owen in the goalscoring from the Poland matches to the Dutch but unfortunately that's impossible now.
Two good players though Owen has to be the better of the two imo.
European player of the year in 2001,scored against all the big boys on the international scene,France,Argentina and Brazil.
That european player of teh year was a disgrace he never deserved it and Keane has
Scored against Germany, Spain, Yugoslavia, Czech Republic, Holland, which are pretty good teams too you know. Plus he has not played against italy or england and Brazil and Argentia were friendlies. Hopefully he will add France to his list this year.
Why is it impossible?Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Owen will never score again!
*I fear I may have cursed him now and he'll be like The Magic Porridge Pot and never stop*
[/QUOTE]
I thought Keane would have caught up with Owen in the goalscoring from the Poland matches to the Dutch but unfortunately that's impossible now.[/QUOTE]
I dont think it is impossible he could score from teh bench tonight or get a few against holland either, its unlikely but not impossible
hopefully he will stay on the bench tonight and get himself rested for saturday he really looked wrecked on sat. Give mc Geady a run out tonight it a game with no real pressure for the kid
Well, unless Owen fails to score against Iceland on Saturday and Keane scores 6 against the Dutch. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
Completley disagree, he misses a criminal amount of chances. Keanes guilty of that too mind you. There was only two league goals between them last year, I think Owens better but there's not as big a cap between them as people think. Keane has more to his game than goalscoring whereas Owen is mainly all about the goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
agreed keano can hold up the ball a lot better than owen and seems to have added a lot to his game through all his travels. Hopefully he can put his head down now and hit the back of the net a bit more taking a few less touches ..
Right on, we shouldn't quibble when he is the best goal scorer we have ever had, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowsy
I think that Robbie is as important for Ireland as Owen is for England, and maybe more so. At club level though Liverpool really need Owen which says something about them as a team, Spurs don't depend on Robbie nearly as much.
Owen is a more clinical finisher but really one dimensional in comparison with Robbie.
I don't think Liverpool need Owen anywhere near as much as they need Gerrard. Owen was superb several years ago but he is not the same player after all the probelms he had with his hamstring. When he first came into Liverpool's team he really was head and shoulders above any other player in England. Keane needs to settle down - he's played at quite a few clubs for a player of his age.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MickCollins
I think Owen has lost a yard of pace with his injuries. It was his sheer speed that marked him out in his early career. Have rarely seen him ghost past a defender this year. Still he has been looking sharper towards the end of the season.
Robbie is terrific. Best in Irish football history so far. If we are discussing his shortcomings as a forward, there is no doubt Robbie, Brian Kerr, Chris Hughton, etc are doing likewise and working to improve them.
[QUOTE=NeilMcD]That european player of teh year was a disgrace he never deserved it
Of course he desvered,it his goals helped liverpool go on and win a treble of cups that year and he was the one who carried England through their qualifiers for the WC 2002 but ppl only remember beckham's free against Greece after about eight wide efforts.
And if I remember crocectly that was a time when Owens scoring ratio was brilliant,almost a goal for every shot on target,he needed to score every time he had a chance because liverpool played total counter attack football and didn't create hardly anything for Owen.Roma away in the Uefa cup and Arsenal in the FA cup final were two perfect examples when Owen scored two great goals in each to win the games single handed and un-deservedly for liverpool a lot of ppl might say.
That is a case for winning the English player of the year, but there was no way he was teh best player in Europe that season. He was not or is not fit to lace the boots of Zidane, Maldini, Raul, Ronaldo or even guys at Baryern or Valencia. There are manh players that helped their team qualify for the World Cup and I would go as far as saying that Roy Keane was a bigger influence over his country that Owen was and Utd won the league too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
Better make that
Robbie - 52 Games 20 Goals
Michael - 55 Games 24 Goals
Or do I owe Micheal Owen one (nice Welsh name Owen)
Actually Robbies goal was very similar to Micheal's famous goal
against Argentina don't you think?
Incidently I think Robbie struck it with his 'weaker' right foot,
am I correct?
He struck it with his right foot anyway!Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
No, you left out the Japan match so its: Owen - 56 games, 25 goals. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
actually you're also leaving out the iceland game so it's
Owen : 56 games - 25 goals or 0.446 goals per game
Robbie : 52 games - 20 goals or 0.384 goals per game
not much difference really
David Healy has a very respectable 12 from 34. I fancy him to equal Clarke's record tonight :)