Domodedovo Blast

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110124/...3-3fd0ae9.html

Media here have already posted up pictures of the suspects, 4 groups claiming responsibility 3 from the Caucasus and 1 Ultranationalist group. Local online bloggers immediately claimed it was the work of the security forces to drum up general panic. Whatever the real story is, the number locally is reported as in excess of 40 dead, hundreds injured. Anyone who knows the arrivals area in Domodedovo will know where it happened. Strange it was in the International area, though nothing is a surprise at the moment. I flew into the airport on Saturday, don't think my flight tomorrow will be going somehow.

There but for the grace of God go you...

Still patchy details, reported on Newstalk that it's thought to be a suicide bomber, which doesn't rule out any of your possibilities. A senseless act no matter what.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spudulika

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110124/...3-3fd0ae9.html

don't think my flight tomorrow will be going somehow.

---

Vnukovo has been dealing with incoming diverted flights, so perhaps..

Tragic.

Could someone give me the readers digest version (the baddies, the goodies - just joking ;) ). It is one conflict i must confess to knowing very little about.

EG - The main streets in Moscow were chaos this evening, hospitals all over are trying to cope with massive casualties. Last year when the bombs went off in the metro by other half and our little lad were here on holidays, and both stations were where she would have been at that exact time (or me too for that matter the year before) had we not been on materity (her) - based away (me). Panic set in when she realised her mother and grandmother were going to be changing at Park Kultur around that time, but tbtg it was grand. This comes weeks after caucasian's were being killed in Moscow just for being Caucasian (after the football fan stabbing). It's not nice at all.

Stu, it's basically this. Russia wants to keep hold of the Caucasus for many reasons - oil and gas transit, regional stability, fight against smuggling and drug trafficking, fight against radical islam sneaking in from Saudi and Iran, imperial legacy, ego. Unfortunately the divide and conquer effort has meant that a vicious strongman (Kadyrov) and ex KGB rules with an iron fist. Last year when they announced that the war in Chechnya was over, it was so obviously a lie that it was too funny. When the neighbouring republics were overrun with militants fighting the Kremlin appointed rulers there too, it just has gone crazy.

Added to this, you have black flag operations - the original metro bombings, the apartment bombings, the attempted bombing in Ryazan etc, then you have a KGB-run government who are ensuring that an enduring conflict ensures absolute fear and fealty.

Just think of Northern Ireland, but wilder.

It just reminds us that Moscow is a dangerous place, and anyone going to the game this year has to be on their guard in public places at all times.

They would love the publicity of a few Irish casualties if they attacked again in September, even if the airport is unlikely to be targeted again. Before anyone thinks that we're not targets, they don't give a 4x. They probably claimed a fair few non-Russian victims today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

It just reminds us that Moscow is a dangerous place, and anyone going to the game this year has to be on their guard in public places at all times.

They would love the publicity of a few Irish casualties if they attacked again in September, even if the airport is unlikely to be targeted again. Before anyone thinks that we're not targets, they don't give a 4x. They probably claimed a fair few non-Russian victims today.

---

Are you for real?

2 Britons feared dead and our embassy sent out an appeal for contact. Quite a few foreigners too. Strange thing is the big media news late last night and this morning was about taxi drivers charging $1,000 for fares to Moscow, resulting in 4x4 drivers coming to take uninjured passengers away for free.

Mypost, the world is a dangerous place. Between the Russians, British, Americans and their erstwhile allies in the wars on terror, false flag operations and media manipulation, we can be gotten at any time. I still feel as safe here as in Dublin, but then again, having grown up in Ireland we've all become immune to terror.

Something just struck me about this. Domodedovo is privately owned and hated by the Kremlin. Why? It provides excellent service, foreign airlines have moved en masse there, it's been growing annually and is now Russia's top spot - while Sheremetyevo, despite cleaning up, is a poor relation and severely hampered for further development, while Domodedovo has a 3rd runway ready to roll. Now just a few weeks back there was a major power outage at the airport. Severe weather was blamed, however the company (East Line) claimed there was more to it than just weather. The Kremlin called for heads to roll, and a chief Director responsible for Operations went. Nothing happened when the same thing occurred in Sheremetyevo for longer periods and with greater disruption.

Within minutes of the event the FSB released photofits of the culprits, along with the organisation who did it. They're claiming it's al Qaeda, while the organisation who were accused refused to accept responsibility and have no links to al Qaeda. Medvedev went on tv last night saying heads will have to roll at Domodedovo as it's the airport authorities who are responsible for this disaster. That they allowed this to happen too easily.

I know this sounds a bit mad, or very mad, however it fits with what's been happening in the past decade plus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

It just reminds us that Moscow is a dangerous place, and anyone going to the game this year has to be on their guard in public places at all times.

They would love the publicity of a few Irish casualties if they attacked again in September, even if the airport is unlikely to be targeted again. Before anyone thinks that we're not targets, they don't give a 4x. They probably claimed a fair few non-Russian victims today.

---

Even for you, that's a remarkably ignorant post. Where were your posts warning us all of the dangers of travelling to Spain or England or America after similar events? Singling out Russia as dangerous in those circumstances is basically racist (discrimination based purely on race).

I think that's a bit harsh. Wasn't there recently a wikileaks thing describing Russia as a 'mafia state'? I think people are justified in being a bit wary of the place, it does have a bit of a ropey record.

I'm probably judging him on his previous record - posts like here (number 7), where again we get the theory that the Irish in particular could be specific targets, but without any particularly adequately explored reasoning. Let's assume - as we're being told (and I know we can take these things with lots of salt at times) that it was a terrorist attack, or even just a single nut-job. This kind of stuff can - and has - happened anywhere in the world. I don't see why only Russia should be described as a dangerous place to visit when the exact same thing has happened in America, Spain and England. I think mypost has picked up a bias and is running with it without thinking it through fully. I think he's done it lots of times before on other issues, both political and footballing.

Claims that Russia is a bit of a mafia state may well hold water (the Anna Politkovskaya being the obvious high profile case, but there's other cases, such as those linked to the head of FIDE, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, which has been causing controversy in the chess world), but to link that argument in to here, you'd have to assume Government involvement in this bombing, which hasn't been indicated at all.

In terms of being a target of a massive incident like this, I would say Russia is as safe/unsafe as a fair number of big "Western" countries. It's a high profile country which the saudi's proxys hate, if they get the chance to attack any of these big high profile countries (India, Russia, UK, USA) they'll launch a thing like this (e.g. Mumbai, 7/7, 9/11).

Incidents like this one in Russia make big news, but the reality is risks are inherent anywhere. There are floods in Eastern Australia and Brazil at the moment, there was political unrest in Thailand in 2009/10 and there are significant numbers of gang killings in Mexico, yet all of these places have hundreds of thousands of Western Tourists visiting.

PStu, I'd kind of agree that Russia is a mafia state, but the word mafia is wrong. I'd say it's more a state controlled by the security forces (KGB into FSB). Croatia has been described as a mafia state, but again it's more a state controlled by former socialistic-fascists. Ireland would qualify as a mafia state in a sense, in that it's controlled by a small wedge of society who's needs are greater than the majority, though it would be more a financocracy.

But as for it being safe or unsafe, you and cfdh are both correct, it's as safe/unsafe as anywhere else. I still find there's something fishy about this, and the government here are well capable of a false flag operation. Then again, we had the UK government still up to their old tricks up the North with Mi6 (counter terrorism?) looking to keep their budget up be organising events to justify their demands. In Russia it's far simpler - they wanted to go back to war in Chechnya and blew up their own citizens to do so.

Russian media are reporting that there have been no claims made about who did it, yet yesterday there were 4 reported, and one named, not to mention photofits. It's depressing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Even for you, that's a remarkably ignorant post. Where were your posts warning us all of the dangers of travelling to Spain or England or America after similar events? Singling out Russia as dangerous in those circumstances is basically racist (discrimination based purely on race).

---

Similiar events? Fair enough. What airport in those countries did someone walk in and blow themselves up in baggage reclaim? Tell us all.

This is the second incident on a Moscow transport hub in the past 12 months, the attacks were indiscriminate, and there's a Presidential election there next year, which may see Putin returning to the position, so it is likely imo that there will be another one before then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm probably judging him on his previous record - posts like here (number 7), where again we get the theory that the Irish in particular could be specific targets, but without any particularly adequately explored reasoning.

---

Never mind me, yesterday's attack wasn't an attack just on Russian people, it was aimed at foreigners as well, and foreigners were killed. In September, there will be several thousand Irish fans in the city, going through that airport and using other forms of public transport while there, and you have to be careful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

Similiar events? Fair enough. What airport in those countries did someone walk in and blow themselves up in baggage reclaim? Tell us all.

This is the second incident on a Moscow transport hub in the past 12 months, the attacks were indiscriminate, and there's a Presidential election there next year, which may see Putin returning to the position, so it is likely imo that there will be another one before then.



Never mind me, yesterday's attack wasn't an attack just on Russian people, it was aimed at foreigners as well, and foreigners were killed. In September, there will be several thousand Irish fans in the city, going through that airport and using other forms of public transport while there, and you have to be careful.

---

30th of June 2007 - Glasgow Airport
7th of July 2005 - London Transport (buses and tube) - 56 killed, more than 700 injured
Is that enough? Or do you want Madrid? Or New York? Or Mumbai? Perhaps it's just reactionary and you typed after watching the awful BBC coverage of it, which is merely repeating official statements without any analysis or investigation.

If you think Moscow is unsafe, then I'd advise you not to venture out of your house as our own dear land is no cup of tea.

Glasgow happened outside the Airport, not in Baggage Reclaim.

The London Attacks were one-offs. Nothing has happened since. Even so, I haven't been there since and I would be careful while travelling. The Madrid and New York attacks were one-offs, and nothing major has happened there since. I don't visit India anyway.

Back to Moscow. It's not a one-off, Monday was the latest in a series of events. There will probably be more. The dfa.ie website, warns that "There is a high threat from terrorism in Russia, including bombings in public places", and advises Irish citizens to "Exercise Caution" while in the country. Our fans will be using that airport when going to/from there in September. People should travel, but the advice should be noted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

Glasgow happened outside the Airport, not in Baggage Reclaim.

The London Attacks were one-offs. Nothing has happened since. Even so, I haven't been there since and I would be careful while travelling. The Madrid and New York attacks were one-offs, and nothing major has happened there since. I don't visit India anyway.

Back to Moscow. It's not a one-off, Monday was the latest in a series of events. There will probably be more. The dfa.ie website, warns that "There is a high threat from terrorism in Russia, including bombings in public places", and advises Irish citizens to "Exercise Caution" while in the country. Our fans will be using that airport when going to/from there in September. People should travel, but the advice should be noted.

---

It didn't happen in baggage reclaim in Moscow, I know the airport, I know this exact place, it happened at the international arrivals area. The bombers in Glasgow were foiled from getting inside by pure luck, they'd have detonated themselves inside. Glasgow got lucky.

London attacks one-offs? I take it you keep up to date with the news?
21 July 2005 - attempted car bombings foiled (the four men convicted for a minimum of 40years each)
29 June 2007 - attempted car bombings - bombs found and disabled (culprit for these was also behind Glasgow)

At any time Ireland is in danger of becoming a barren wasteland if bearded warriors decide to do something to Sellafield. At any time we can be picked off by these nuts, or nuts of our own breed. You've nicely backed down on the attitude though please get your facts right on it and not just drag it up, it's difficult enough as it is without twisting the facts.

I know the airport too, from our last game out there, spent rather more time than I would have liked, but that's a different matter. Anyway, the explosion was reported to have taken place in the baggage reclaim area, as the link states.

I don't include near misses and close shaves in assessing terrorism risks, just actual incidents. Sellafield is something that is completely outside our control, and can't be viewed as a threat within Ireland.

I was at an airport when a terrorist attacked once, but I killed him with a trident.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

I know the airport too, from our last game out there, spent rather more time than I would have liked, but that's a different matter. Anyway, the explosion was reported to have taken place in the baggage reclaim area, as the link states.

I don't include near misses and close shaves in assessing terrorism risks, just actual incidents. Sellafield is something that is completely outside our control, and can't be viewed as a threat within Ireland.

---

Then you are at odds with the DFA and law enforcement officials around the world. That's a nuts statement. All terrorist attacks are outside of our control, if we could control them they wouldn't happen.

The official report, which has remained consistent from the start and confirmed by eyewitnesses (as well a security footage) is that it happened in International Arrivals - where people from the street can enter. This is the crux of the debate between the airport and the airport police. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...ty/429738.html .

If you don't view Sellafield as a threat to Ireland's existence then you should start reading projections by our own government.

Sellafield is a threat of us, but there is nothing that can be done in Ireland about it.

The dfa have put that "Exercise caution" advice up for Russia for a reason. They haven't put it up for the UK and Spain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

Sellafield is a threat of us, but there is nothing that can be done in Ireland about it.

The dfa have put that "Exercise caution" advice up for Russia for a reason. They haven't put it up for the UK and Spain.

---

Because they can't, they're both EU countries. With Russia this is as much as they can do except if a full scale war erupts.

I was in Saudi Arabia 2001-3, all hell was breaking out - 11th of September, Afghanistan, Iraq, bombings and shootouts in the Kingdom. Yet the DFA didn't budge, simply mentioning it might be a tad difficult.

Sellafield is in the UK, it might be out of our control, though does that make it safer for Ireland? Not quite. Plus Ireland continues to be a target for the loonies with our facilitating the war on a word.

I think DFA warnings often go up after an event like this anyway, regardless of the nation's previous stability (or otherwise), so it's kind of circular logic. There's a warning because there was an incident. They're basically covering themselves by being that bit cautious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think DFA warnings often go up after an event like this anyway, regardless of the nation's previous stability (or otherwise), so it's kind of circular logic. There's a warning because there was an incident. They're basically covering themselves by being that bit cautious.

---

The warning hasn't gone up, it has remained as before the airport incident.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

the theory that the Irish in particular could be specific targets, but without any particularly adequately explored reasoning

---

I assumed he was thinking of the likely large group of Irish visitors to Moscow later this year, rather than separatist paramilitaries seeing more advantage in Irish casulaties than any other.

On a slightly lighter note, it reminds me of Rangers' European trip to the Caucasus a few years ago. They claimed the game should be moved, as it wasn't fair to have to play 200km from a region of seething ethnic hatred.

Except there won't be an especially large group this time round.

The economy, Trap and the Russian internal security and some of their revolting natives, will have done for that....

It's a key game in the group, our fans have travelled everywhere in all economies, with far worse teams and coaches than we currently have. They went to Moscow in 85 when we hadn't a pot to pis in, on or off the pitch, so they'll go there in September, and have the patience of job with the terrorist threat, the visa bureaucracy, and the other things that come with visiting Russia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gather round

I assumed he was thinking of the likely large group of Irish visitors to Moscow later this year, rather than separatist paramilitaries seeing more advantage in Irish casulaties than any other.

---

He was, yeah. So going to an Ireland game is now a major risk to your life? I think that's deluded scaremongering at best. Remember Russia just won the 2018 World Cup - can you imagine what'll happen to their tourist figures for that competition if there was a major incident at a (relatively) big football match in the meantime? I'd argue that if anything, Russia is now one of the safer nations to travel to for a qualifier.

I think mypost's subsequent posts on the topic have shown him to be ignorant and hyper-reactive. Avoiding London? Dismissing any travel to India, seemingly on the basis that it's below him? ("I don't travel to India"). That's my gripe with the original post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So going to an Ireland game is now a major risk to your life?

---

This is a strawman argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

It just reminds us that Moscow is a dangerous place[...]They would love the publicity of a few Irish casualties if they attacked again in September

---

At worst, I've exaggerated his post. I don't think I've completely misrepresented it. But for clarity, my argument is based on reading the above post as indicating that mypost fears a terrorist attack - with resultant loss of life - targetting Irish fans at the upcoming qualifier. I think that fear is a knee-jerk, groundless one.

Somewhat related and very, very funny: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01...uicide_bomber/

Quote:

---

A suicide bomber's plan to detonate explosives in Central Moscow on New Year's Eve was foiled when she received an unexpected text message that caused her deadly payload to blow up too early, according to news reports.

---

Happy New Year indeed.

Mr. A, this only emerged through Russian state media and today has been rubbished as FSB wet dreams. There was an explosion at a Moscow apartment before New Years, this woman was part of a Pakistan trained al-Qaeda group. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, was released about this at the time, which is completely the opposite of what happens here. This was leaked to a Guardian journo during the week and was spread around, until the media, including the normally Kremlin-subservient Russia Today exposed it as having less veracity that was being claimed.

I stand by the assertion that this was a business target. At a time with low tourist potential and for maximum effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mypost

It's a key game in the group, our fans have travelled everywhere in all economies, with far worse teams and coaches than we currently have. They went to Moscow in 85 when we hadn't a pot to pis in, on or off the pitch, so they'll go there in September, and have the patience of job with the terrorist threat, the visa bureaucracy, and the other things that come with visiting Russia.

---

Except I know plenty of people who regularly go to away games, say 100, of which 15-20 max. would be off to Moscow.
So don't believe the hype!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So going to an Ireland game is now a major risk to your life? I think that's deluded scaremongering at best. Remember Russia just won the 2018 World Cup - can you imagine what'll happen to their tourist figures for that competition if there was a major incident at a (relatively) big football match in the meantime? I'd argue that if anything, Russia is now one of the safer nations to travel to for a qualifier.

I think mypost's subsequent posts on the topic have shown him to be ignorant and hyper-reactive.

---

I can't see what them winning being handed the WC has to do with it. The security situation there may have stabilised by then, but if it hasn't, the same advice applies. Our fans were attacked out there last time by skinheads, and may be again, so there's that side to the trip to take account of also.

6 weeks after our game there last time, Nord-Ost was targeted, just over 6 months before we go there, an international airport has been targeted. Last year, the Metro was targeted. In the meantime, there's been various random attacks on trains and planes in Russia. So this is not a pleasant hop to Scandinavia or the low countries we're talking about. It's Moscow, it's far, expensive, bureaucratic, requires the patience of job in an environment unlike anywhere else in Europe we play, and extra security measures should be taken. The dfa advises everyone to be cautious when out there for very good reason, and it would be foolish to disregard that advice.

Have to agree strongly with MP on his last point.

And besides the machinations of Bl*tter and his shower of c*nts, questionable to some extent Russia getting the 2018 WC. As in they have considerable internal security issues, not least in Moscow. Which aren't always reported as it doesn't suit the Western news media.....