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Thoughts, opinions now that Cowen has issued the invite (though it would up to the President's office to organise)? Wouldn't personally be rushing out to see her, but she's as entitled to come here as any other head of state, and I expect that any protests would be a lot lower-key than we've been led to expect, much like when the English rugby team played in Croke Park.
I wouldnt be in favour of it at all to be honest.
But dont we have a Queen here already - McAleese
Although I myself wouldn't have any interest whatsoever in lining the streets to watch her pass by, and so on, I have absolutely no problem with a visit as long as huge amounts aren't spent on it.
Anyone who lines the streets to see any visitng head of state is nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I don't know what I@m dreading worse, the knuckle draggers' reaction or the media trying desperately to prove we aren't all knuckle draggers and fawning all over her
I'm getting queasy at the thought of the RTE coverage already... Other than that couldn't care less, especially as I no longer work in Dublin city centre, so I won't even be disturbed by any convoys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Better getting it over and done with. If the Unionists can accept Marty McGuinness as potential First Minster of NI, we can put up with this for a day.
No fan of auld Lizzy, but would have more respect for her that the appalling D4 West Brit sycophants who will be rolled out for this.
And the 16 page pullout in the Sunday Independent.
"Welcome back Maam"
:worship::worship::worship:
No doubt the residents of Dun Laoghaire will be out in force, along with the rest of the "Jackeens" to re-create the warm welcome they gave to Liz's predecessors.....!
I thought the only queen in politics here was Norris.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
My thoughts exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
The worst thing about this whole farce is when the media roll out the "royal watchers".
Ohh dear god, these are the celebrity stalkers of the Middle Ages, think Xpose only replace Leather tongs with lace doileys.
Anyways the whole royalty thing is only embaressing the Brits themselves, to think a nation can even have a symbolic head of state due to nepotism is bizarre.
It just goes to show that the Bolsheviks were 92 years ahead of the curve and counting.
Rasputin, didn't the Bolsheviks kill you?!
He took enough poison to kill a horse, was shot repeatedly, beaten up, tied up and rolled in a carpet and thrown in a freezing river, at which point he broke out of his binds and carpet. Now, you might say that being drowned, spending three days trapped in cold water under ice, and undergoing an autopsy finished him off, but when his body was stolen from his grave and burned, he tried to escape again. Frankly, the odds that he's survived all that and is still alive and posting on foot.ie might seem remote, but we can't take that chance. WE CAN'T TAKE THAT CHANCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
I’d b glad of the visit. It would show that, in welcoming the head of state of its once bitterest enemy, Ireland has “taken its place among the nations of the earth”. We’re an independent, sovereign nation: we should be able to invite whomever we want, and accord them a respectful, dignified greeting. It’s also politically better to invite her now rather than wait for King Charles….
I fear the knuckle-dragging die-hard republican chuds. Their “republicanism” is just visceral hatred of everything English – except her football clubs! - rather than any notion of the res publica, or the non-sectarianism of the United Irishmen, where our republican tradition starts. Mind you, I dread fawning, forelock tuggers falling over themselves to catch a look at her, whinging it was a bad day we ever left the Commonwealth. They’re both welcome to stay at home.
Which is where I’ll be when she visits. I’ve already seen her (got dragged along on a pre-school outing during her jubilee year in 1977!) and while I’ll be glad she visits and we can celebrate the common ties between our countries, and maybe get a tourism dividend from the UK, I won’t feel the need to be out waving a flag. Just as I didn’t when Reagan came. And Clinton. And King Harald and Queen Sonja of Norway…
So the story goes....allegedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
What does that even mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Its one of those inane soundbites the media churn out when attempting to flog a dead horse.
Nothing inane about it! I just thought most people would be familiar with Robert Emmet's speech from the dock, and recognise the quote ("When my country takes her place among the nations of earth, then, and only then, let my epitaph be written.")Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin
Clearly not...
Quick point: she's the queen of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and the Commonwealth territories, not the Queen of England. Calling her Queen of England is ignorant at best, and at worst offensive to her millions of other subjects who also consider her their queen but are not English.
My experience of Welsh nationalism leads me to believe that there'll be a few idiots if she visits the Republic, but hopefully it will be a generally constructive visit.
She's also Fidei Defensor. Should we use that one too? Even if we can't stop laughing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
Holy crap, has she got super powers?
Meant no offence Cymro, just had to think of a convenient title at the time and had to find the best wording. Most of the Irish media just call her "the Queen", but if I'd just left it at that, there'd have been loads of comments along the lines of "she's not our Queen" and no-one calls her "the UK queen"Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
I was hoping for that answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
I am fully aware as to where the term comes from, what I was hoping for was some enlightenment as to the relevance of the quote in this given context?
Ohh dear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
How would having a Monarch visit our country possibly be constructive?Quote:
My experience of Welsh nationalism leads me to believe that there'll be a few idiots if she visits the Republic, but hopefully it will be a generally constructive visit.
Our country is skint enough as it is without having to wine and dine a throwback to feudalism, but sure who needs meritocracy when you have nepotism.
Weeeeel, the paragraph after the quote suggests modern "we hate the Brits" republicanism is a b'stardisation of the United Irishmen's republican principles, with which Emmet was associated. Thus, the intent is to invite our fellow readers to conclude, if they concur, that Irish republicanism can only be true to its origins and Ireland can only ever be a republic when we act as a mature, responsible state and don't look on others with historical hatred (the "up the 'ra" brigade), or ourselves as grovelling wretches (the "'twas a bad day we left the Commonwealth" or the beal bocht "we can't afford to pay for this" brigades).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin
You sought enlightenment; that can only come from within. But I humbly offer you this explanation to help you on your quest! God speed you, my friend!
Now, as to why we should value state visits, may I suggest international comity, diplomacy, trade and tourism for starters. To bemoan state visits on the basis of cost is the kind of reasoning that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Nobody has done that in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Alot of wild assumptions being thrown around there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
How did you come to the conclusion that modern Republicans are indeed just "anti-brits"?
I know alot of them, including English born Republicans and they certaintly dont fit into your nice two dimensional perspective on Republicanism.
And you are insinuating that Irish Republicans rejecting the Queens visit on a principled political stand point is indeed immature and acting as an irresponsible way and looking at the institution that is the British Monarchy with "historical hatred"?
You do realise that one of the corner stones of Republicanism was indeed the abolishment of institutions of Nepotism such as the Monarchy and the irony of you and others of your ilke using a Republican icon to somehow validate your arguement in accepting that relic from Feudalism, it boggles the mind.
The Republic of Ireland and its people should be able to reject the Queens visit on a principled political perspective in opposition to the sectarian, insestual and nepotistic institution she holds.
I still am none the wiser as to the wisdom of accepting and validating that institution that should have been abolished a century ago.Quote:
You sought enlightenment; that can only come from within. But I humbly offer you this explanation to help you on your quest! God speed you, my friend!
Does this international community include the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan which her Army (as she is officially the head of it) has invaded, raped, pillaged and plundered over the past few years?Quote:
Now, as to why we should value state visits, may I suggest international comity, diplomacy, trade and tourism for starters. To bemoan state visits on the basis of cost is the kind of reasoning that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Or do we just shake hands with the White guys aye?
A fairly linear perspective one the international community their pal, its not so much as international diplomacy more so bending over for who ever is the latest super power.
Doubt that somehow! Although in these recessive times we live in she might end up having to get the ferry across.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Of course "Queen Mary" is technically commander-in-chief of our army, so similarly blaming Queen Elizabeth for a ceremonial leftover from when royals led armies into battle is fairly shaky, the buck stops with Blair alone. Monarchies are outdated, but that's for each nation to judge, there wouldn't be much comment if the Kings of Norway or Swaziland visited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin
I've recollection of recent visits by several Monarchs. I don't remember protests, but that doesn't mean there weren't anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
Yeah right................Most people mean EnglandQuote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
"her subjects" - what? You mean the Welsh and Scottish - lol
The Australians, the Kenyans, the Canadians... They're all partial to a bit of monarchyQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
They're also extremely partial to not being described as subjects. Like every other normal human beingQuote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
They should have thought of that the last time they voted to retain a monarchy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
the Canucks love their Queen and the Royal Family, borderline obsessive in a lot of cases. I live in a city called Regina... just off Prince of Wales Drive....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
But they're not normal here so fair point.
edit: Im still waiting an answer to Rasputins question on how exactly the Queens visit can be "generally constructive". If anything i can see it being the opposite.
Of course the real danger is that all the media attention will ensure some kind of protest action if, and when, she comes. Hopefully most of us are comfortable enough in our own skin to ignore the visit, as we would any other visiting head of state. Can't see who'd be bothered turning out myself but it takes all sorts.
thats exactly what i was getting at in my post above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
I think it's more hassle than it's worth. I'd imagine there'll be a large scale protest organised by RSF and other republican groups. It'll probably end up with a riot in the city centre like what happened with the Love Ulster parade.
fair point if the place went ballistic for love ulster parade ... imagine response to queen going up o'connell street :DQuote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong