Player Ratings vs Brazil

Post 'em up here


Given -- 5 no chance on either goal, didn't do too much wrong otherwise

Kelly -- 6 am usually not a fan but he wasn't terrible tonight
McShane -- 2 ...
St. Ledger -- 4 wasn't terrible altogether but made one terrible mistake. Looked better in their box than ours at times
Kilbane -- 6 didn't do much wrong

Lawrence -- 3.5 pretty bad night, especially after 30 or so minutes
Whelan -- 6 wasn't terrible, midfield went to **** when he left
Andrews -- 4 not too good in midfield, even worse in defense
Duff -- 5 not great but not terrible

Doyle -- 7 great work rate as always but still no killer instinct
Keane -- 5 good for 30 minutes then whatever made him pull out of the squad shown through

Subs:
McGeady -- 3 crap as always
Gibson -- 3 no positive impact, same as against France
McCarthy -- 4 showed some positive signs but game was out of hand by the time he came on
Best -- 5 certainly some positives, had no service


Definitely missed Dunne and O'Shea, would like to see Hunt given more of a chance

Enjoyed the 1st half but the 2nd fell apart. Oh well it was Brazil we were playing and not Liechtenstein.

I would agree that Doyle would also have been my Irish Man of the Match.

I thought Lawrence did better than you thought.

McCarthy came on and made one great challenge but was anonymous thereafter. Too easily knocked off the ball.

Andrews didn't look great either in that department.

Gibson will never make it at this level, terrible on the ball.

Doyle looked great out there, much better than Robbie.

I wish Robinho was Irish, what a performance.

Robinho was a highlight reel MOTM selection, one good finish hardly makes a performance. His night was summed up by performing about 14 step-overs in a dangerous position and then playing a three yard pass to a colleague. Some nice touches (but which Brazilian player didn't) and he was a lot quieter than Kaka (when he wasn't offside that is).

Actually I thought Kelly was very good tonight, easily the pick of our defenders, made several excellent challenges. Doyle worked his socks off, per usual, but his decision making could improve. Robbie worked hard, looked knackered. McShane had a very good first half - pity his second was so poor. Whelan was a big loss, although I don't think criticism levelled at Gibson is strictly fair considering how much composure we lost just prior to his introduction. Funny enough he looked a lot keener to get stuck in than he usually does (was at the game, giving him a good watch.)

Other than that I'm not to disappointed - we were outclassed but no surprise. Prefer to dwell on our very good first half performance than the shambolic second. I was heartened to see the players look very disappointed with how things went, it would've been easy to justify any old performance against in a mid-season friendly against Brazil. They took it seriously, unfortunately composure, experience, fitness and defensive nous let them down. But all in all, nothing to be ashamed of. Watching the game, Brazil are a terrifying team when in the mood.

Not a post about player ratings, but we need to stop interviewing players and referencing Henry's handball. Andrews was asked tonight about Robinho being offside (I think he's on under the current rules?) and the linesman not giving us the decision 'again' was brought up.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Not a post about player ratings, but we need to stop interviewing players and referencing Henry's handball. Andrews was asked tonight about Robinho being offside (I think he's on under the current rules?) and the linesman not giving us the decision 'again' was brought up.

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Robinho was offside. The new rule (which came into effect in 2005) says any part of the body, except for the arms.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Robinho was offside. The new rule (which came into effect in 2005) says any part of the body, except for the arms.

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Just going on memory, was his leg not in line with Andrews?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Just going on memory, was his leg not in line with Andrews?

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The leg has nothing to do with it. If ANY part of the body, except for the arms, is ahead of the second last defender (including the goalkeeper), when the ball is played through, then the player is offside. If a player was lying belly down on the pitch, his feet and legs could be a foot behind the last defender, but his torso and head would be ahead of him.

Nah, he was a yard off.

I thought the defence was very comfortable for 60 minutes - not quite sure what McShane did that St Ledger didn't to deserve a 2. They were a bit at sea in the second half, but they were very stretched. Kelly shackled Robinho for most of the match, and can't be blamed for the second goal, but Kilbane looked shaky all night.

Andrews and Whelan bossed the midfield in the first half - no idea why he took Whelan off but not Andrews, since the latter was clearly more tired. Gibson started bright but got lost thereafter, and Best is still unsuited to the Kevin Doyle role. Doyle won everything in the air against a very physical Brazilian defence - he did very well but was isolated. Would have liked to see him and Best play together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Not a post about player ratings, but we need to stop interviewing players and referencing Henry's handball. Andrews was asked tonight about Robinho being offside (I think he's on under the current rules?) and the linesman not giving us the decision 'again' was brought up.

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You're not the only one :eek:

My ratings:

Given 6: he didn't have much to do, and had no chance for either goal.
Kelly 6.5: he looked solid without being spectacular, which I think is his ceiling. If he can maintain that level for us, I will be happy to have him in the squad as cover.
McShane 4: Simply not good enough. I'm not completely opposed to his presence in the squad because we lack defenders, but for me he really is a last resort.
St. Ledger 5: Mixed bag. Looked good on the ball for the most part, but made some poor decisions as well. I think having to babysit McShane as opposed to being babysitted by Dunne was difficult for him.
Kilbane 6.5: I thought Killer put in a fairly solid performance on the left, and made some good tackles. Considering his lack of match practice lately, I was impressed.
Lawrence 5: Liam doesn't really have the pace to be effective in certain games. On the expansive Emirates pitch, against the speedy Brazilians, he looked fairly useless today (I am a fan though!).
Whelan 6: Perhaps the biggest indication of his importance was what happened when he left the pitch, as the team totally lost all shape and personality in the middle of the pitch. I don't think he's a brilliant player, but he is a serviceable one who can mitigate the ability of the opposition to control the centre of the pitch.
Andrews 5.5: He didn't really do much, and was unlucky for the own goal.
Duff 6: Fairly ineffective match. Held on to the ball too much at times when the pass was the better play to make. Hit a couple of awful passes as well. Still love him.
Keane 6: Ran his socks off, but got no service.
Doyle 7: Brilliant hold up play. I've always dismissed him being labelled as a target man, but he played that role brilliantly tonight. Irish man of the match for sure.

I thought we played well first half but were a shambles in the second once Brazil got their act together. Whelan coming off didn't help.

Given - 6
Kelly - 7
Kilbane - 5
St Ledger - 4
McShane - 4
Lawrence - 5
Andrews - 4
Whelan - 6
Duff - 6
Doyle - 7
Keane - 5

I thought Kilbane could have done more to stop the cross for the first goal. RUN to the man with the ball not jog and it annoys me that our midfielders didn't track back with the runner for the seond goal. Duff also had the chance to lay it off to S Kelly before Brazil countered us for the first goal. Very surprised he didn't take the easy option. Weak ass cross = Brazil score within 20 seconds. I was also frustrated with our hoof it up the field approach in the second half. After playing some nice stuff early on we reverted back to lumping it long to Doyle/Keane. Keane was going nuts. McShane = The one team in the world you don't want to keep giving the ball to is BRAZIL. FFS. Learn to pass or just give up and stock shelves in a supermarket.

I really hope we use the two friendlies in May to try a few things. Keane, Given and Kilbane don't need caps. Give Westwood, Duffy/Wilson and Best and co some game time.

I thought it was a great first half display considering how so many of the players had played on Sunday. We went out of it after about an hour when the changes were made.

Given 7 – Not a lot to do but done it well.
Kelly 7.5 – Good solid performance from Kelly. Think this lad needs to have a bit more confidence in himself.
Kilbane 6 – Done ok. Was’nt exposed as much as I thought he would.
McShane 5 – Had a good first half but was poor in second.
St Ledger 6 – Thought he done well, except for that one mistake in the second half
Lawrence 6 – Worked his socks off but didn't manager to influence the game going forward.
Whelan 8 – He is now the most important player in our midfield. Was in the centre of everythine we done. Was badly missed when withdrawn.
Andrews 6 – Had a good first half. Tired in second.
Duff 7 – Looked to trouble the Brazil defence ever time he got the ball. Managed to get over a few decent crosses and worked tirelessly.
Keane 7 – Worked tirelessly, ball never seemed to fall for him in front of goal.
Doyle 8 – Was a constant menace to the Brazilian defence. Won every header he contested.

McCarthy 6 – Looked impressive when he had ball at feet
Best 6 – Would have liked to see him given more time.
Gibson 5 – Failed to make an impact despite his effort
McGeady 5 – Looked lost

Given - 6
Unlucky with 1st goal, overall no worries with him
Kelly - 7
I thought he was solid, good display IMO.
McShane - 6
Did ok until that mistake in 2nd half. just get rid of the ball.
St Ledger - 5.5
Looked a bit shaky, wasnt to impressed.
Kilbane - 5
Thought he gave the ball away almost every time. Poor night for me.
Lawerence - 4
Terrible night, looked really poor.
Whelan - 6
Some good tackles, didnt really get forward much.
Andrews - 6
Pretty much the same as whelan.
Duff - 6
Good enough nite, looked dangerous at times.
Doyle - 7
Ran into the ground, good effort.
Keane - 7
Same as doyle, ran his heart out.

Given 7. Not much to do.
Kelly 7. Did ok, Went in hard with tackles but ref gave a free against every time, why? because it was Brazil.
Mc ****e 0. He must think we died and went to heaven TWICE. Once for being pick again after that crazy mistake against the French, and once for playing against Brazil on his CV.
St. Ledger 6. Got caught on the ball and was lucky Brazil didn't score from it, apart from that did ok.
Zinadine 5. very average, should retire now.
Lawrence 5. average aswell.
Whelan 8. That was as good as ive seen him play.
Andrews 7. Unlucky with o.g and should have put ball into row Z, good battler.
Duff 7. Did well and showed he can still do it against the best, great ball into the box for Doyle chance
Doyle 7. always works hard and did so again last night, thing is tho, is that what we want from our front men, i thought front man was to get into goal scoring positions and to create chances?
Keane 6. Good for 20 mins, TBH i was ****ed off to hear he was starting, The i'm injured / not injured ****e gets on my wick, trying to be a hero and build up caps was what last night was about.

Another thing i must add is, WHY THE FOOK Trapatoni keeps picking McShane is beyond me, jesus christ, this manager has seen and worked with hundreds, even thousands of players over the years but how he can't see that Mc Shane is a liability is just sick.

Was an excellent first half performance. Second half, particularly after Whelan went off, was very poor. Gibson did little or nothing when he came on. After a solid first half by the back 4, the two lads in the centre made terrible individual errors that were extremely fortunate not to be punished.
Trap and a few players mentioned tiredness afterwards, alot of the players had played sun, a legitimate excuse i suppose?

Positives:
A fine 45 mins, plenty of good passing and team looked organised. Marginally the better team imo.
Kelly put in a solid performance at right back.
The continued improvement of Whelan and hes now overall importance to the team.
The fact that the midfield two in the first half were showing for the ball from the defence and willing to push on when they could. Not ultra defensive as we have seen before.
Solid first half from SLedger and McShane
James Mc's first cap.

Negatives
Terrible individual errors from Sledger, McShane and Andrews.
Poor performances of Gibson and McGeady. McG defensively is very poor, left KK exposed a number of times.
Overall very poor second half, no supply to the front two.
Lawrence worst game for us, although did feel he was underutilised.
Dont see the point of playing Keane for a full 90 mins.

Given 6 Decent enough, did well to close down the strikers a few times in the 2nd half

Kelly 6.5 Coped well with what was thrown at him, looked fatigued at the end.

McShane 4.5 Did ok, I read on some of the Brazilian boards that they really rated him, but he had a few dicey moments in the second half

St. Ledger 4 Did ok in the first half but lack of experience showed in the second, he dwelt on the ball and it nearly (nine times out of ten) cost us a goal.

Kilbane 5.5 average game, not too much of a threat going forward, didn't do much wrong but lacked a bit of stamina compared to the Kilbane of old, I fear this could be a campaign too far for him.

Lawrence 5.5 Tatically was ok in terms of defensive duties, but I felt he could have supported the attack a bit more.

Whelan 8 Was superb in a very simple way. Supported the center backs and full backs, always made himself available to take a pass, held the ball long enough to allow others to make runs and then passed it to them. It's like that quote about Deschamps being a "water carrier" but sometimes you just need a player to do the simple stuff very well. Anyway as others pointed out his withdrawl was the key to our collapse.

Andrews 6.5 Decent performance, good ball retention, tracked back well in the first half. Looked a bit over-stretched in the second half, and was to blame for not defending higher up the pitch in the second half - we resorted to two banks of four from about 65-70 mins.

Duff 7 Very good performance, he held on to the ball, ran at the Brazilians, put them under pressure, got into decent positions. All this took pressure of the midfield and defenders - each time Duffer had the ball it gave our back line a breather. Only blip was his slowness in crossing and then giving the ball away lead to their first goal.

Doyle 6.5 Did well against decent physical defenders like Lucio, held the ball up well and ran at their players a fair bit (not at great speed) and didnt give the ball away too much.

Keane 5 Started ok but then the injury became apparent, in the second half had a tendency to drop back to try and collect the ball (I guess due to lack of service), not a bad game but nothing like as incisive as he was vs France.

McGeady 4 Didn't really get into the game, had one good run at the Brazilian midfield (where they tackled him but the ball broke loose for him) but I would like to have seen him running at a tired Brazilian defence a bit more.

Gibson 3 Anonymous few minutes, he didnt hold the game as well as Whelan did and he was caught up the field a few times they broke, to be fair he didnt have much time to adjust to the game's tempo

McCarthy 4 Impossible to judge him given he didn't have too much time on the pitch, seemed to have a decent positional sense and speed.

Best 5 Put himself about, dispossesed the Brazilian midfield a few times near the end, thought he could have gone for it a bit more in that last chance where he nearly had the header against Julio Ceasar.

Overall Brazil were a fairly strong team and we were able to match them for much of the first half, I would even say we were better for the first 25 mins. When you consider we didnt have a fit Robbie Keane, and were missing O'shea and Dunne that session was a decent enough performance. The goal was unlucky especially given it might have been offside and the time to conceed was horrible. I thought we were poor in the second half, taking off Whelan and Duff was the key. While we could do ok with 2 and half players missing (Dunne, O'Shea and a half fit Keane) losing another two on top of that was the tipping point. We didnt have any real leaders at the back, so we resorted to defending a 0-1 defeat, with this system of two banks of four. We were not as quick to close down Kaka (who btw is becoming a pretty dirty player - as proved against the USA in the Confed Cup and now last night). In the first half the likes of Whelan, Duff and Andrews were all quick to pressure him and this clearly caused him to lose his temper, he lashed out at Duff and Andrews in the first half. I would say Brazil are some way short of being the best team in the world at the moment, and I think were we to face the Germans or the Argentines we would have significantly harder tests. I think with a full team we probably would have got a draw.

Well said about McShane (learn how to pass or stock shelves in a supermarket). It is a major weakness for us. When all else fails just lump it long to two outnumbered strikers so the ball comes straight back at you. We need to fix our forward line - Robbie needs to play as an attacking midfielder to feed Doyle and Best or Folan (or Daryl Murphy). Sorry to say it given the improvement we have shown recently, but we still need the big man up front at present.

Can somebody tell me what McShane did wrong that St Ledger didn't? Either they both did well or neither of them did - there wasn't much to choose between them.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Can somebody tell me what McShane did wrong that St Ledger didn't? Either they both did well or neither of them did - there wasn't much to choose between them.

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St. Ledger is a good player, McShane isn't. McShane is an average Junior player at best.

It's a difficult match to give ratings for, such was the gap in performance level between the first and second half. It would have been mostly 7's and 8's in the first half and 3's and 4's in the second, anyway...

GIVEN 6 No mistakes, no very difficult saves to make
KELLY 6.5 Looked more like the Kelly who was ever present for Birmingham in 2007/08
McSHANE 5 Always looks like he's going to do something ridiculous and rarely disappoints, one shocking mistake
ST LEDGER 5.5 Started well but got less and less comfortable as the game went on, one shocking mistake also
KILBANE 5 Should be more careful in possession for a player with such experience
LAWRENCE 3 One of those nights, seems to be playing less regularly for Stoke also
ANDREWS 7 Outstanding in the first half, awful mistake out the right in second and generally deteriorated
WHELAN 6.5 Some good blocks and nice passes in an attacking sense in first half
DUFF 7 Really looks to be enjoying his football, by a distance our biggest attacking threat
KEANE 5 Started reasonably well but faded badly
DOYLE 8 Probably our only outfield player as impressive in both halves

As for the subs- GIBSON didn't contribute much, one nice turn in his own penalty box. McGEADY continued from where he left off at Ibrox i.e. shocking. I don't think he's a good impact sub anyway, needs to feel his way into game and get the measure of his opponent. McCARTHY did his best to throw himself about in fairness and had a couple of decent moments, in particular a nice bit of skill to keep the ball in play down the right. Also won a couple of decent tackles but had come on at a very difficult period. Could possibly have been played in by Best if he hadn't shot. BEST didn't have much of an impact but wasn't on all that long.

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Originally Posted by smellyfeet

St. Ledger is a good player, McShane isn't. McShane is an average Junior player at best.

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Not the question I asked.

They both made mistakes but McShane's were worse. There was one passage in the first half where instead of passing the ball back to Given he knocked it square to Sledge who was rapidly closed down and then had to pass it over to Kilbane, who lost possession and gave away a throw in. There was nothing either Sledge or Kilbane could really have done better, McShane knocked it square across his own back four without looking and if he had passed it back to Given it would have been hit long and though we would probably have lost possession, it would have been in a much less dangerous area of the pitch. McShane just takes more chances and makes worse choices than someone with his limited ability should. He reminds me entirely of the way I play at centre back; that is, too risky for either the position or my own good. Sledge is much more solid and less likely to take risks (plus I think he is a better header of the ball and a greater threat at set pieces).

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Can somebody tell me what McShane did wrong that St Ledger didn't? Either they both did well or neither of them did - there wasn't much to choose between them.

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exactly my thoughts

Still, I can't imagine Shane Duffy will be too troubled by thoughts of the quality of the players currently ahead of him in the queue.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Still, I can't imagine Shane Duffy will be too troubled by thoughts of the quality of the players currently ahead of him in the queue.

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let him worry about gettin regular Premiership football like McShane first before he can start thinking of making the squad..... but yeah u are right to be fair

I doubt Paul McShane is too worried by the quality of players currently behind him in the queue. I'm not his boyfriend or anything, but the animosity he generates around here reminds me of Dunphy.

Have to agree, there was no difference between McShane and St. Ledger but I am never at ease when McShane is on the pitch.

I'm not a big fan of Stephen Kelly but I have to take my hat of to him for last nights performance.

Whelan impressed me, Andrews did not. Doyle was great in the air and would be my MOTM. Keane worked his socks off and did very well in the 1st half. Couldn't help but think that he saw this as an opportunity to audition to potential future managers though!!!

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Originally Posted by Lenny82

Have to agree, there was no difference between McShane and St. Ledger but I am never at ease when McShane is on the pitch.

I'm not a big fan of Stephen Kelly but I have to take my hat of to him for last nights performance.

Whelan impressed me, Andrews did not. Doyle was great in the air and would be my MOTM. Keane worked his socks off and did very well in the 1st half. Couldn't help but think that he saw this as an opportunity to audition to potential future managers though!!!

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spot on. Keane is promoting himself....

Another idiotic response from Yapster.
If was some award for the most idiotic and negative drivel ever on Footie, Yapster you would be my nominee.
And there has been some competition for that.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Another idiotic response from Yapster.
If was some award for the most idiotic and negative drivel ever on Footie, Yapster you would be my nominee.
And there has been some competition for that.

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I bow before you then...

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Originally Posted by geysir

Another idiotic response from Yapster.
If was some award for the most idiotic and negative drivel ever on Footie, Yapster you would be my nominee.
And there has been some competition for that.

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Have a feeling on basis of quotes seen elsewhere, he's not actually a fan of the Irish team, which is fair enough, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Have a feeling on basis of quotes seen elsewhere, he's not actually a fan of the Irish team, which is fair enough, I suppose.

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Yes I am.....