New political party needed?

With today's Sunday Independent poll revealing that two-thirds of voters are opposed to NAMA, that only Eamon Gilmore enjoys a higher satisfaction than dissatisfaction rating and that 27% of respondents want George Lee to form his own party, it seems that if a new political party was formed, it would attract a degree of support at the next election. Maybe Ireland needs a group like the UK's Lib Dems, that would be centre-left on social issues but centre-right on economics, promoting reform and entrepreneurship.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

Maybe Ireland needs a group like the UK's Lib Dems, that would be centre-left on social issues but centre-right on economics, promoting reform and entrepreneurship.

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Like the PDs?

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Originally Posted by culloty82

Maybe Ireland needs a group like the UK's Lib Dems, that would be centre-left on social issues but centre-right on economics, promoting reform and entrepreneurship.

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The Lib Dems are an irrelevance really. The only thing they're known for is their Euro-phile policies. In the UK, there are 2 serious parties, the others don't matter.

We have a multi-party democracy, but basically they can be put into two groups. Sinn Fein in one, and the rest in the other.

If you have time for a laugh today, you can watch Mary Coughlan talking bull on BBC News' Hardtalk for 25 minutes.

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Originally Posted by mypost

The Lib Dems are an irrelevance really. The only thing they're known for is their Euro-phile policies. In the UK, there are 2 serious parties, the others don't matter.

We have a multi-party democracy, but basically they can be put into two groups. Sinn Fein in one, and the rest in the other.

If you have time for a laugh today, you can watch Mary Coughlan talking bull on BBC News' Hardtalk for 25 minutes.

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If they are irrelevant, and I don't believe they are, its only because the UK has a 'first past the post' electoral system.

They have polled between 15 and 23% consistently and in by-elections have consistently polled over 30% (recent polls have been poorest in a decade). Or put it another way, they get 200% to 300% Sinn Fein's share of the vote, and outpoll every Irish party combined except FF and FG.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Like the PDs?

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That'd be my thoughts, and we've only just managed to kill them as pay back for the damage they've done to the economy and society.

tbh, it sounds like what an FG-Labour coalition would be like, and was in the past. Socially, obviously Labour are liberal, but even using what is an admittedly very conservative benchmark FG are much more socialy liberal than FF. If failed right wing policies are your thing, I would've thought FG policies would float your boat.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

If they are irrelevant, and I don't believe they are, its only because the UK has a 'first past the post' electoral system.

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I wonder how far Brown will get with AV...

I was a big fan of the Lib Dems - a member, actually - until Kennedy was shafted and Ming took over. I have even less interest in them under Clegg, but even an Irish equivalent under a Clegg-type would be bettter than any of the current parties. So they'd have my vote.

None of the parties seem to have the motivation to change the system - tend to usually vote Labour as the least conservative option, but since Spring retired, they haven't really stood for anything. We only need around 100 TD's and to give more powers to local councils, but no-one currently elected is likely to risktheir own seats to make radical changes.

How is that a "new political party"?

ravin mad looney party - the only problem is there policys would be sensible

While I would personally vote for a new party (if they had a decent platform and outlook) I cannot see one take any major role in Irish politics. Control of the media is firmly in FF's hands especially the ones that matter (RTE and Indo - as shown by the stitch up job done on Enda Kenny and FG last week) while it would take a heap of money to get anything done. I tended to vote Green or Independent first as they'd always be the first one eliminated, but after hearing Gormley and co rubbish and downplay the Chernobyl disaster I hope they go for pizza with Putin.

The only way a new movement in Irish politics could take hold is if Irish students (3rd level) put aside partylines and went for it themselves, for a couple of elections they'd struggle, but within 10 years they'd have some sort of stake in government, especially local.

France, Italy and Holland have shown that when people become disillusioned with the current parties, they start drifting towards the far-right, so if there are no new ideas, there's the danger of Ganley or someone similar emerging to fill the void. As for the post earlier, I'd just planned to stay out of the debate until I was asked to give a difference from the PD's and it was just easier to throw out one suggestion than overloading a post with four or five ideas.

If Dave McWilliams and George Lee start a Pirate Party tomorrrow, I'll join without reading their manifesto. :)

Seriously though, if you want to pick up the slack, that's what you have to do. The older voters won't move without a push, so you need to hook up with the younger voters and get traction through them. Previous attempts to "hipify" politics in Ireland are embarassing at best; you need an actual platform that appeals to them, and something like the Pirate Parties is the only thing that'll work.

Just want to say love the CA section, in particular the politic topics. I wouldn't be able to articulate what I would like to see in a party, nor arrogant enough to think I know enough either, but some of you guys really do know you're stuff, and its brilliant to read.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

If Dave McWilliams and George Lee start a Pirate Party tomorrrow, I'll join without reading their manifesto. :)

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I would vote for any party whose candidate looked like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Andersdotter

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

I would vote for any party whose candidate looked like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Andersdotter

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Into Paul Young type mullets then eh?

Doesn't look especially Swedish -more like she's from the dismal side of the Iron Curtain.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Into Paul Young type mullets then eh?

Doesn't look especially Swedish -more like she's from the dismal side of the Iron Curtain.

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I was raised on a diet of 1980s cheese films, and it's scarred me permanently! ;)

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

If Dave McWilliams and George Lee start a Pirate Party tomorrrow, I'll join without reading their manifesto. :)

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I think I'd read the manifesto first, but yeah, they'd certainly get my attention. The Pirate Party in Sweden is the first credible political alternative I've seen in a while which wasn't founded on racism.

I didn't know anyone had set one up here, but it seems they do exist: http://pirateparty.ie/ They're using the right words, but if I'd never heard of them until now, they've a long way to go before they're even running candidates.

Yeah, but its a bit too single issue for me. I accept there's more to it than just one issue, but I couldn't see it taking off in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Yeah, but its a bit too single issue for me. I accept there's more to it than just one issue, but I couldn't see it taking off in Ireland.

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It depends on the issue. The bulk of the anarchy movement is based on whiney 15-25 year olds who want to smoke hash, and think the entire state should be reorganised to facilitate them. And then, of course, there's Sinn Féin

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Yeah, but its a bit too single issue for me. I accept there's more to it than just one issue, but I couldn't see it taking off in Ireland.

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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...264553506.html
People here will be interested when it begins to affect them. You get a room of people under thirty and ask for a show of hands: how many of them have never downloaded a song, film or other file in breach of copyright, and you'll get nothing but full pockets. The law and people's morality are out of step, and it will come to a head sooner or later.

The Greens started out single issue, and they're going to be in busi...

...oh right...

(EDIT: To be fair, the UCD article is crap from start to finish.)

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

(EDIT: To be fair, the UCD article is crap from start to finish.)

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I didn't even read it - presumed it was. It just happened to wander into my feed reader minutes before I wrote the above.

It looks fun, but I'm not sure they should be running the country?

http://coolest-kid-birthday-parties....e-party-01.jpg

I went to their site, the policies are not easily accessed, so I went to their "constitution" - it appears that they have ellided the concepts behind the words "manifesto" and "constitution". Hmmm.

So, on having a quick read of the manifesto section of the constitution, I am willing to run against them. Personally. In every possible constituency that they may run in with an outside chance of election. Apart from the copyright and patent law reform thing. which is really neo-con libertarianism with emphasis on iTunes - not a new thing, apart from the iTunes focus - it is bereft of the substance of the average single issue candidate. It makes drunken Lit & Deb Ball gate-crasher babblings in their Green Economic "Principles", frothy emo-esque pronouncements like their Minorities "principles" - I am not a voter: I am a free minority; simplistic adolescent assessments of global economics and conflict in their World Peace "Principles", and banal infantile dribblings that somehow count as their "principle" on Society.

Above all, my favourite bit has to be their policy on Poverty:

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Originally Posted by The Emo Party

We believe that something must be done to combat poverty and its causes in the State.

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There is little connection between any of the "Constitution"'s "Principles" from any stand point and no depth outside of enshrining in law that it is free to take have a copy of the last U2 album if you have access to the internet. Fine if it is only U2, but many really good bands are not making much of a living owing to the download culture as is (which is not much change) but then would be shafted hugely. Not to mention artists, writers, designers, chemists, inventors, etc. Neo-con Libertarianism. "I shall have what I want as cheaply as possible, as should anyone who is at roughly the same level of global access and demand as me, consequences be damned."

A party like this cheapens politics. The system is not great as it is, but this would just ad another layer of blatant self interest, and self preening, without someone at the helm who knows what they are at. Currently 155 "We-all-have-our-mortgages-to-pay"ers have signed up for them - presumably maybe 50 joined because they think it would be aimed at making Pirate Day a bank holiday.

I am damn near inclined to set up "An Cumann Ceist Amháin" to rival them, on the single issue of eliminating Marietta biscuits. I mean, we're also against people robbing and stuff, and, I mean to say, nobody likes the Summers to be wet, buty really, Mariettas are soooooo bland.

It's not a credible party as-is, and I don't think anyone suggested it is. I doubt even they'd suggest it is. Lighten up fella.

But they do! Or at least they are trying to.

Grrrr. I'm going to go out and get soaked by a passing bus to calm down! That should stop me being so annoyed by that shower:mad: ;)

Do any of you know about this Amhran Nua crowd?
http://www.amhrannua.com/

I'm sad to inform everyone of Bluebeard's passing. He appears to have been decapitated by a cutlass carelessly trailing from the window of a passing bus. His rambling nonsense will be missed.

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Originally Posted by Bluebeard

But they do! Or at least they are trying to.

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Dude, they don't even have 200 members, and the international Pirate Parties would disown them if they actually reached 300 and tried to go ahead with that manifesto. If you're that angry about it, there's a deeper issue...

Whatever about their policies, I must say I find the way they are using a pirate flag a a way of charting the growth in members is quite cute.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Do any of you know about this Amhran Nua crowd?
http://www.amhrannua.com/

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Occasionally go on the Politics.ie site when anything major happens, and one guy had that website as his footer. Can't say I know any more than yourself, and even though the name would put you off, wasn't too much on the site I'd disagree with tbh. Seems they're only starting out, would imagine they'll drop all the Celtic rubbish fairly quickly.

Yeah, as I've said earlier, I'm not a politics buff, but I'd never heard of them, and like you I saw that as a guys sig on boards. I'm not gullible, I'd just like to have a competent local representative that has a chance of doing something good for my area while the party that person is affiliated to is fair. Is that too much to ask for?

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

I'd just like to have a competent local representative that has a chance of doing something good for my area while the party that person is affiliated to is fair. Is that too much to ask for?

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In Ireland and Europe in general, it is too much to ask for. Brussels disapproves of non-politicians deciding their affairs, as you saw with the Lisbon Treaty. Everyone must come from the political system, and their word is law. No far left and far right parties get a look in. Every ruling party must be centrist, not looking to rock the boat in their provinces or Brussels.

By contrast, competent or not, Sarah Palin came from nowhere to challenge for vice-President in the space of 3 months in America. It's not called the land of the free for nothing.

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Originally Posted by mypost

It's not called the land of the free for nothing.

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I thought it was the called the land of "nothing for free".

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Originally Posted by mypost

By contrast, competent or not, Sarah Palin came from nowhere to challenge for vice-President in the space of 3 months in America. It's not called the land of the free for nothing.

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In fairness, she came from "Governor of Alaska" to challenge for VP.