The BIG debate

to many threads taken over by people either for or against richie ryan and danny ventre so thought we should start a proper thread to stop other ones getting taken over.
i for one have nothing personal against either as i firmly believe they are both commited just richie has not got the athleticism to give a big effort in games, whether that be from injury or not. as for danny. the white pele he is far from but he is totally commited and that sort of makes up for his lack of ability. i know people will come on now and say this is not the place for slating players and now is not the time after final but its a forum for gods sake and thats why we are all here.
for me its time for a few dead wood to be let go from the club and imo richie would be the first one, actually no i would put kendrick there. cash i think also but he is a handy sub. but marshall needs more games next year to bring him on a bit and with cash here it mite limit his appearances.
ciaran kelly does not set the world alight for me but as subs go he is twice as good as jennings last year !!! we need to keep our best players and if that means getting rid of one or two nice guys so be it. its a tough world this year and we have no europe money next year and we could easily go out of cups early.

Ventre- A good worker, honest, versatile and commited. Very lilimited vision, very bad passer and hot headed at times. A good asset to the club, LoI is his level and we are a good club for him to be at. Ideally you would play him with a creative player in the middle if missing O'Grady or anywhere across the defence.

Ryan - Not getting into it again, hopefully he never plays again for the Rovers

going by the pfai transfer list, it says danny, keano, brushie and butler are unemployed and looking for new clubs. if kendrick is at the club next year i will lose all faith in cookie. he has been useless all year. he is no better than holmes imo. i know its hard saying here player not good enuf but we have a lot who are quality. brush, peers, boco and raf and turner is the backbone of an excellent side. personally my review of players this year is.
brush 7/10 boco 9/10 peers 8/10 keane 7/10 keohane 6/10 feeney 5.5/10 camano 5/10 doyle 6.5/10 ryan 4.75/10 ventre 7/10 o grady 6.75/10 morrison 6/10 meenan 5/10 marshall 6.5/10 cash 6/10 raf 9/10 blinkhorn 8/10 turner 5/10

sure dannys the white pele what more would ye want

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Originally Posted by CF1989

sure dannys the white pele what more would ye want

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When you describe Danny as 'the white Pele' I can only assume that you are saying that he does not suffer from erectile dysfunction.

in football terms

i think danny will stay as he is a good utility player but i think the club needs more strength in dept but only what the budget can afford. my first port of call would be a new left back, i believe we need a new winger and central midfielder and a goal scorer as blinkhorn is a great player but not an out and out scorer of goals.
i think doyle could do a job upfront as he has poached a few important goals this year for us and i believe he is more of a striker than winger.

We need a new left back and the rest depends on who leaves!

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Originally Posted by red_away

We need a new left back and the rest depends on who leaves!

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we need a lot of players to bring more quality, we just wont have the money to bring players in here, there and everywhere

i know what your saying and turner signing will be huge, as how many discussions last year did we have about teams just walking through our centre midfield. but one position i think we need filled badly is left back. kendrick is just not up to it. i have never seen a player become so incompetent in my life.

Must agree Kendrick hasn't done his stuff. Very disappointing impact since he came.
He's certainly no Chris Butler.

i think hes been good in alot of games, but when he's played bad he's been terrible. got caught out 4 times with diagonal balls in behind on sunday and almost cost us a penalty in the first half from it. i wouldnt release him though. not until we're sure on a butler return

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Originally Posted by CF1989

i think hes been good in alot of games, but when he's played bad he's been terrible. got caught out 4 times with diagonal balls in behind on sunday and almost cost us a penalty in the first half from it. i wouldnt release him though. not until we're sure on a butler return

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Would have to agree, I think he's a decent player and also gives us a good attacking dimension on the left, going forward on the overlap.

Ventre I'll be going nowhere, with Boco going or gone and Turner half in he's the new Right back with Butler at LB ;)

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Originally Posted by Bravo

Ventre I'll be going nowhere, with Boco going or gone and Turner half in he's the new Right back with Butler at LB ;)

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Why would ya play the best midfielder in the country at right back?

if raff goes id like to see him just playing in behind blinky. give him a free role, we'll challenge the top two then

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Originally Posted by CF1989

if raff goes id like to see him just playing in behind blinky. give him a free role, we'll challenge the top two then

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Not a bad call,he could have a lot of joy in that role with players of the quality of turner and o'grady to win the ball for him

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Originally Posted by Bravo

Ventre I'll be going nowhere, with Boco going or gone and Turner half in he's the new Right back with Butler at LB ;)

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I think what Bravo is saying here is that Danny will be the new right back. With Boco gone and Turner coming into midfield this frees up Danny to slot in at RB.

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Originally Posted by CF1989

if raff goes id like to see him just playing in behind blinky. give him a free role, we'll challenge the top two then

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Originally Posted by roversforever

Not a bad call,he could have a lot of joy in that role with players of the quality of turner and o'grady to win the ball for him

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Again I think CF is talking about Turner here.

no no, i was talking about Mr Pele

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Originally Posted by CF1989

no no, i was talking about Mr Pele

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As was I

Ventre will be used as a utility player, probably across the defence or could fill in if O'Grady or Turner arent playing.

Yee can deflect from the real issue at hand all yee want, but richie ryan is still a horrible footballer.

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Originally Posted by celticV3

Yee can deflect from the real issue at hand all yee want, but richie ryan is still a horrible footballer.

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Couch! Sore one for Richie

Full back is about his level...if we have any ambition to be a top side playing decent football he cant be let near the midfield.

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Originally Posted by DonalE

Couch! Sore one for Richie

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He didn't even 'cushion' the blow;)

To anybody giving out about Richie Ryan your all adlums, and i mean f ing adlums who havent a clue about football at all. He's the only creative player at the club so ye havent a clue. For first 20mins V Fingal he was our best player. Then again your probably the same adlums who gave danny ventre the Player of the year. I ask you. Enough said. Complete and total Adlums.

The one about carrie seems to be true, to busy with work and kids by all accounts and rumour has it McGylnn & Murray deals are immenent...

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Originally Posted by SRFCbrothelutd

To anybody giving out about Richie Ryan your all adlums, and i mean f ing adlums who havent a clue about football at all. He's the only creative player at the club so ye havent a clue. For first 20mins V Fingal he was our best player. Then again your probably the same adlums who gave danny ventre the Player of the year. I ask you. Enough said. Complete and total Adlums.

The one about carrie seems to be true, to busy with work and kids by all accounts and rumour has it McGylnn & Murray deals are immenent...

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Owen Morrison and Eoin Doyle to a certain extent too. Murray, the fella that plays for Cork is it ?

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Shamrock Rovers have also released the following players: Simon Madden, Darragh Maguire, Shane Robinson and Corey Tracey.
“Simon and Corey are both young lads who had limited opportunities in the first team, and at this stage of their careers they need regular first team football,” says O’Neill. “I would also thank Darragh Maguire and Shane Robinson for their contribution to Shamrock Rovers throughout the 2009 season,” he adds. “They are top-class professionals.”

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Wonder if Cook is interested in either of those 3? Madden's a right back, isn't he? Maguire works in Dublin so not sure how willing he'd be to move, but the other 2 might be interested in getting a regular game.

And if they're not good enough for our reserve team in Tallaght, why should we be signing them?

[QUOTE=SRFCbrothelutd;1284613]To anybody giving out about Richie Ryan your all adlums, and i mean f ing adlums who havent a clue about football at all. He's the only creative player at the club so ye havent a clue. For first 20mins V Fingal he was our best player. Then again your probably the same adlums who gave danny ventre the Player of the year. I ask you. Enough said. Complete and total Adlums.

am glad someone agrees with me have said this in another tread and got shot down

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Originally Posted by SRFCbrothelutd

To anybody giving out about Richie Ryan your all adlums, and i mean f ing adlums who havent a clue about football at all. For first 20mins V Fingal he was our best player.

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Possibly. But as far as I recall a game lasts 90 minutes. If he can only last 20 minutes what does that say about his fitness?
No excuses. Hip injury or not he shouldn't just go missing like that. That's the problem I have with him.

@ srfcbrothelutd, if richie is so class why is he a sub ??? as for creative i cant see it myself. i would put morrison and boco as most creative by a mile. the only obvious quality ryan has for me is his ease on the ball. he always looks like he has time on the ball but what he does after that is where the problems arise. he usually goes sideways or backways. reminds me of a crab personally !!;)

They used to call Claude Makelele the hairdresser, because he could only pass short, back and sides.

but boy, could he mark and tackle !!!

Adlum, You havent a clue if you think Boco is creative! He wouldnt create a good row in a yard full of jipos. Give me a break if ever player was based on pace and power its boco but creative is not in the locker. Wise up Ventre lovers...

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Originally Posted by SRFCbrothelutd

your all adlums...f ing adlums adlums Adlums

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Originally Posted by SRFCbrothelutd

Adlum

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So we are all adlums. Care to explain what the word means? You use it a lot.
And just because somebody has a different opinion than you doesn't mean that they haven't a clue about football. Who are you? Arsene Wenger?

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Originally Posted by dong

So we are all adlums. Care to explain what the word means? You use it a lot.
And just because somebody has a different opinion than you doesn't mean that they haven't a clue about football. Who are you? Arsene Wenger?

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haha you beat me to it.what exactly is an adlum?please tell us what an adlum is srfcbrothelutd and then maybe we can understand why we're all adlums!

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Originally Posted by avvenalaf

And if they're not good enough for our reserve team in Tallaght, why should we be signing them?

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So we shouldn't have signed Eoin Doyle then?

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Originally Posted by SRFCbrothelutd

Adlum, You havent a clue if you think Boco is creative! He wouldnt create a good row in a yard full of jipos. Give me a break if ever player was based on pace and power its boco but creative is not in the locker. Wise up Ventre lovers...

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Here is it coming from a non 'Ventre lover'. Ryan is not anywhere near the standard of LoI football, especially going on this season performances. I know what you see in him, he passes from side to side, keeps the ball well but thats where it stops.

You have to look at the bigger picture here, Ryans energy levels are poor, he doesnt cover enough ground to play in the centre of the pitch.
He doesnt have pace or any injection to light up a game..
His vision is very limited and occasional, like Carrick from Utd, he usually plays the obvious pass rather than the telling pass. Lateral movement is his specialty, but when going forward he struggles to get the vision in place and the killer ball doesnt happen.

Where is this this vision? Does he run at and then split defenses? I dont see it, the only forward passes you see him given are high ones, hit and hopes or missplaced passes.

His resposibility level is low, meaning he doesnt seem to want to be the man in there. Ala, Chris Turner, take the game by the scruf of the neck and control it, i personally think its because he doesnt have the ability to do so.
If you look at top level creative central medfield players you will see the platform on how to be that creative midfield player. Take Xavi, commands the ball from his defense, always aware of his surroundings. When he gives a pass 10 yards, he follows it and wants the ball back. When he goes forward, he looks to get that pass that will make the goal. Now nobody is asking Ryan to be Xavi, or anywhere like him, but the idea is the same..you have to want the ball...not just pass it and with that, pass the responsibility.

Defensively Ryan isnt good enough, too static and doesnt track runners. That leads to issue obviously.

Im not saying he couldnt be a good player, no. There is a small possibility, but like Anderson at Utd you have to call a spade a spade and say when someone isnt good enough for the level they are playing at.
Im only using these foreign players as examples.

You should see the light on Ryan if you follow him over a period of time, its only so far 10 yard balls to full backs can get you by.

For what it matters, Ventre is a good honest but limited player. LoI is his level and he could probably fit into the plans of most managers because of his versitility. Not anywhere near the player people say he is, but worthy of the jersey.

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Originally Posted by Shedzer

Here is it coming from a non 'Ventre lover'. Ryan is not anywhere near the standard of LoI football, especially going on this season performances. I know what you see in him, he passes from side to side, keeps the ball well but thats where it stops.

You have to look at the bigger picture here, Ryans energy levels are poor, he doesnt cover enough ground to play in the centre of the pitch.
He doesnt have pace or any injection to light up a game..
His vision is very limited and occasional, like Carrick from Utd, he usually plays the obvious pass rather than the telling pass. Lateral movement is his specialty, but when going forward he struggles to get the vision in place and the killer ball doesnt happen.

Where is this this vision? Does he run at and then split defenses? I dont see it, the only forward passes you see him given are high ones, hit and hopes or missplaced passes.

His resposibility level is low, meaning he doesnt seem to want to be the man in there. Ala, Chris Turner, take the game by the scruf of the neck and control it, i personally think its because he doesnt have the ability to do so.
If you look at top level creative central medfield players you will see the platform on how to be that creative midfield player. Take Xavi, commands the ball from his defense, always aware of his surroundings. When he gives a pass 10 yards, he follows it and wants the ball back. When he goes forward, he looks to get that pass that will make the goal. Now nobody is asking Ryan to be Xavi, or anywhere like him, but the idea is the same..you have to want the ball...not just pass it and with that, pass the responsibility.

Defensively Ryan isnt good enough, too static and doesnt track runners. That leads to issue obviously.

Im not saying he couldnt be a good player, no. There is a small possibility, but like Anderson at Utd you have to call a spade a spade and say when someone isnt good enough for the level they are playing at.
Im only using these foreign players as examples.

You should see the light on Ryan if you follow him over a period of time, its only so far 10 yard balls to full backs can get you by.

For what it matters, Ventre is a good honest but limited player. LoI is his level and he could probably fit into the plans of most managers because of his versitility. Not anywhere near the player people say he is, but worthy of the jersey.

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A subs one hopefully:)