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It amazes me with the amount of people in these forums who are dismissing kevin kilbane from the team and some even from the squad for the Brazil game. Now with duffer out Kilbane has to be a deffinite to start . How many players do we have playing week in week out on top of their form in the premier league ? He was our most consistent player in our qualifiers so should be given more credit. David Moyes has even said only him and Nigel Martyn have been a credit to the club this season .
Fair point. I think that the point alot of people are making is that his heart is in the right place. He's committed to the cause but people will question his ability.
With all respect to the man he's no duffer is he? Although Andy Reid can play down the left i think. But he deserves a place on current for, the Everton fans have nicknamed him 'Zinedine Kilbane'!
That is where Reid plays for Forest but I'd prefer Reid given a free role.Quote:
Originally posted by BobbyHans
Although Andy Reid can play down the left i think.
I don't have Kilbane in my team in the other thread because he wouldn't fit in. I don't have any wingers because it would be pointless to play wingers when there is nobody to cross high balls too. Maybe Kilbane in the centre would be good.
One role that i've felt Kevin Kilbane has alway's looked good in is an attacking left back, his done this a few time's @ club level and also in the match v spain in Suwon, after Quinn and connelly came on and was more then comfortable. Mind you i'd let other's take any penalty's.
I'd like to see him tried there again too.Quote:
Originally posted by sylvo
One role that i've felt Kevin Kilbane has alway's looked good in is an attacking left back.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by eirebhoy
[B]That is where Reid plays for Forest but I'd prefer Reid given a free role.
I wasn't sure thanks for clearling that up, Kerr played him through the middle against canada.
I agree that KK could be played in an attacking full back role, my only worry would be, would the centre backs have enough to cover for him goin forward. International football is all about pace, and none of our centre backs are very fast. It certainly wouldn't be worth changing to wingbacks to accomdate kilbane, not in my opinion.
:ball:
Kilbane isn't good enough. Good form for Everton V 50 caps of utter ineptness. People love to praise him because he gets slagged off some much and he's a likeble guy but at the end of the day he's not good enough to get his game for a side that has Damien Duff in it.
You can't judge players by the standard of Duff. If the was the case Damien would be the only one playing.Quote:
Originally posted by Slash/ED
Kilbane isn't good enough. Good form for Everton V 50 caps of utter ineptness. People love to praise him because he gets slagged off some much and he's a likeble guy but at the end of the day he's not good enough to get his game for a side that has Damien Duff in it.
Bottom line is that Kilbane is the best performing Irishman in PL at the moment. He can be accomodated in centre midfield but should not be left out for some division one fringe player.
Kilbanes preforming better then Keane? You must be having a laugh, are you an Evertonian by any chance?Quote:
Originally posted by Declan_Michael
You can't judge players by the standard of Duff. If the was the case Damien would be the only one playing.
Bottom line is that Kilbane is the best performing Irishman in PL at the moment. He can be accomodated in centre midfield but should not be left out for some division one fringe player.
Kilbane can't be accomodated in central mid field, he's never played there for us before and playing him there without good prepration when he's not playing there for his club would be stupid. Same goes for left back, where I incidentally think he could do a job.
So yes, he does have to be judged by the standard of Duff, because it is Duff and only Duff who he has to displace from the side, and the bottom line is he's not good enough to do that.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slash/ED
Kilbanes preforming better then Keane? You must be having a laugh, are you an Evertonian by any chance?
Nope LFC :D
Kilbane can't be accomodated in central mid field, he's never played there for us before and playing him there without good prepration when he's not playing there for his club would be stupid. Same goes for left back, where I incidentally think he could do a job.
Plenty of players plays one position for club and another for country
So yes, he does have to be judged by the standard of Duff, because it is Duff and only Duff who he has to displace from the side, and the bottom line is he's not good enough to do that.
Duff would not need to be 'displaced'
So you'd shove our best player out of position, where it's been proven countless times he's almost ineffective compared to what he's like on the left, to accomadate a man who was singled out as being a joke and hated by the fans of the team who were statistically the worst ever in the premiership?
Nope, I keep Duff on left. Regardless of what happened at Sunderland Kilbane is a crowd favourite with Everton and banging in goals in the Premiership. A hard worker who played well in the World Cup qualifiers and also European qualifiers. I am not about to disregard him for players who are yet to prove a thing - Healy, Kavanagh, Miller. No disrespect to them - their time will comeQuote:
Originally posted by Slash/ED
So you'd shove our best player out of position, where it's been proven countless times he's almost ineffective compared to what he's like on the left, to accomadate a man who was singled out as being a joke and hated by the fans of the team who were statistically the worst ever in the premiership?
So you put Kilbane in central mid field, a position he's played about 5 times in his career, based on his form in a completley different position at club level, ahead of people like Miller, who are preforming in central mid field at a higher level then Kilbane and in better form then Kilbane? Aside from him, Delap and Holland would be ahead of him in the pecking order.
I think Kilbane could do a job at left back, if he starts playing there for Everton he could emerge as a real contender for a start there. Maybe if he moves to the middle for Everton and preforms there aswell he could be considered for us but until then he can't really be considered in that position for us, imo, at least not unelss we have a few injuries.
Then play him at left back, just don't leave him out of the team when he's on fire.
Have the same problem with Carr and Finnan. Best positions are both right back. Both good and playing their at club level. You'd either have to drop one or play Finnan at left back. :confused:
You can't just shove him into a position where he'll probably fail because he's not played, on fire or not. Did we play Kiely in defence when he was on fire? It's not like moving from one side to another in the same position, it's two completley different positions, you can't just randomly play in one without any preperation.
If he plays there for Everton, fair enough, but he hasn't. We can't just accomadate all of our players who are 'on fire', which btw, from what I've seen Kilbane is playing fairly well but I wouldn't call him 'on fire'
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Slash/ED
[B]different position at club level, ahead of people like Miller, who are preforming in central mid field at a higher level then Kilbane and in better form then Kilbane? [B]
Higher level? The Scottish prem is one horse race, two horse at best. Apart from his well documented 'move' to Man United will he displace Keane, Butt, Scholes doubt it.
first of all, champions league is a higher level then the premiership. Secondly, he wont have to displace Butt or argubley Keane, Butt doesn't get his game Keanes on the way out, plus he's better then Phil Neville, who gets his game, so to say he wont get his game is way off imo.
Firstly I'll admit that I don't keep much of an eye on Celtic.
However, its week in week out that counts. Apart from Rangers players who does Miller test is skills against?
Meanwhile Kilbane is up against Van Nistelrooy, Shearer, Owen, Campbell, Ferdinand - list is endless really.
Not sure if miller is a Celtic regular and if he shows such prospects why is he being sold??
How can you judge a player who you've probably rarely if ever see?
Have you missed Millers preformances in the champions league this season? You can only play well against what's on front of you and Miller did it in europes premier competition, aswell as the below standard SPL, week in week out.
And your last sentence proves the first one is true at least :) he is being poached off Celtic as he is out of contract at the end of the season.
swap kilbane with miller... job jobed
kilbane plays regular first team football in the spl and see what happens in the champions league :rolleyes:
miller goes to the prem and gets to play in a decent league and in europe
easy :D
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Declan_Michael
[B]And the English league is a how many horse race, there are more similarities than you think.Quote:
Originally posted by Slash/ED
[B]different position at club level, ahead of people like Miller, who are preforming in central mid field at a higher level then Kilbane and in better form then Kilbane?
Higher level? The Scottish prem is one horse race, two horse at best. Apart from his well documented 'move' to Man United will he displace Keane, Butt, Scholes doubt it.
As for the friendly I'd have Reid there ahead of Kilbane anyday.
Quote: Have you missed Millers preformances in the champions league this season? You can only play well against what's on front of you and Miller did it in europes premier competition, aswell as the below standard SPL, week in week out.
From wot i remember he was outstanding against anderlecht and the gers at ibrox, but apart from that hes not really set the world alight. Even though he scored against lyon he'd just come on, and sutton was the real star that night. Although its true u can only play against wots put in front of u, i think that miller still has alot to prove, he is a good prospect.
All this talk about the Spl and EPL being two horse races is true, but at the end of the day, teams like hibs, hearts, the dundee clubs and livingstone r not in the same league as chelsea, newcastle, or even the long ball specialists at anfield. It is pointless to compare the two leagues.
Getting back to KK, the true is he probley won't be in kerr's long term plans, duffer has to be played down the left to be truely effective, and without practise i can't see him being played at leftback. Although for tonights game with duffer out, and him being in good form, he will start id say.
:cool:
At least the other teams get a look in occasionally.Quote:
Originally posted by petef
And the English league is a how many horse race, there are more similarities than you think.
P GD PTS
1 Arsenal 25 33 61
2 Man Utd 25 26 56
3 Chelsea 25 27 55
4 Liverpool 25 9 38
5 Newcastle 25 9 38
6 Charlton 25 4 37
Premiership is all about three teams, only one more than the scottish. Mind you could say the Scottish is now all about one :)
Even the second tier of english teams (Liverpool, Newcastle) would find life easy in the Scottish league. You can count the amount of outstanding players in the scottish league on one hand. Even England have disregarded Sutton and Thompson.Quote:
Originally posted by petef
P GD PTS
1 Arsenal 25 33 61
2 Man Utd 25 26 56
3 Chelsea 25 27 55
4 Liverpool 25 9 38
5 Newcastle 25 9 38
6 Charlton 25 4 37
Premiership is all about three teams, only one more than the scottish. Mind you could say the Scottish is now all about one :)
It's not rated highly and thats probably why their is talk of the old firm moving to English league.
Brilliant performance from Kilbane last night.
He ran at the defence and lifted the whole team.
He could have been so much better if we had a decent left full-back behind him.
its great to see him getting praise at last after been at lansdowne too many times when he was getting jeered. Its funny how peoples opinions change so quickly. If all the irish team showed the same commitment and hardwork that he did we would be in a much better position. O shea looked ok but did not seem to want to attack but a much more assured performance from him defensively.
WUM :DQuote:
Originally posted by Peadar
He could have been so much better if we had a decent left full-back behind him.
Thought he was poor enough going forward, but did okay (and only okay) defensively for most of the match.
I've raised this point on here about Kilbane before, but here goes again.
I've never seen a player divide people so much as KK - last night was an absolute case in point. I've already seen people on this thread saying he was magnificent and put in an inspired performance. Yet people around me on the South Terrace last night were throwing their arms up in despair and shouting for him to be subsituted early in the 2nd half. What is it about him that some people see him play great football and others think he is like a lame donkey?
For the record I thought he once again tried his guts out and looked good defensively and was a threat in the air going forward. However he offers nothing more than kick and chase on the deck and doesn't have the skill to get out of the blind alleys he chases into. I wouldn't discard him, but I'd definitely have Duff in ahead of him on the left anyday.
For winger it's rare he beats his man, either for pace or skill and his final ball is more often poor than not. Last night he happened to do both. I nearly dropped my pint.
Not only that, but eircom league clubs would survive in the SPL going on european results over the past few years.Quote:
Originally posted by Declan_Michael
Even the second tier of english teams (Liverpool, Newcastle) would find life easy in the Scottish league.
thought that Kilbane was great last night, put in a load of work and while his lacking is still actually getting the cross in, he was one of the few who took players on. he was great defensively and won a lot of frees (which we should have done more with), i thought he was great.
He skinned Cafu late in the second half and barely ran for the rest of the game, other than that I thought he was decent.
There was a collective "what the fcuk" arround me in the south terrace when Clinton was announced as MOTM, personnally I thought it would go to one of Given, Carr and Kavanagh.
One of the most surreal sights ever though had to be Ronaldo marking Andy O'Brien for a corner!
Thought Holland should have come off, maybe for Delap? If nothing else we know he can't play right wing. Ever.
Crowd reaction to McAteer warming up was classic "Trigger, I fcuking love ya!" was among the funniest. Along with "you're sh!t and you know you are" directed at Roberto Carlos. Him giving out to Cafu for a cross field pass that bounced over his foot was priceless.
Have to wonder if Clinton will turn into another David Connolly :o
Typical Kilbane last night. Worked his arse off, went on some runs, and at the end of every run his lack of class showed and the end result was always the same, he either ran at one guy too much, or passed/crossed the ball to the opposition. We all love a guy who gives so much to the cause, but he just doesn't have the technique to play at this level. Squad member for us, imo, because his versatility and workrate have some value for us, but isn't good enough to start for an international side trying to compete for something.
I've seen Kavanagh play for Cardiff about 6 times now and was disappointed with the standard of his set-pieces. He can do much better.
slash how can you say that kilbane should not start for us ? id love to see where these peole are that are going to come through? kilbane has been our more consistent player for the last few games and how could you drop a player in great form for his club side ?
Im sure youll say Liam Miller again but the kid has not played for us yet and has to cement a place down at manu before he can take the place of the likes of kilbane or kavanagh ..
I'm a fan of Kilbane. As is always said tries his heart out. Personally would like to see him tried at left back. He's defensively strong enough and could support going forward. I'd be interested to see how it would work out and if successful it leaves no reason to keep Ian Harte in the squad. Bonus.
As regards Kav i was amazed by how poor his set pieces were as it is such a strong part of his game. But despite that last night he looked like providing something that has been missing from recent midfield line ups.
Who's going to come through? Blonde fella, plays for Chelsea, I've heard good things...Quote:
Originally posted by only1kilbane
slash how can you say that kilbane should not start for us ? id love to see where these peole are that are going to come through? kilbane has been our more consistent player for the last few games and how could you drop a player in great form for his club side ?
And he's not been our most consistent player in our last few games, he's been average at best and was woeful, again, in Basle.
Read what I said, I'm not bothered typing it all out again, I'm not going to go for some knee jerk reaction based on a few months of supposed good form (Again, I've not seen it myself) with Everton V years of form for us and Sunderland, he's just got the ability to play at this level, as much as he trys his arse off and we all love him for it. Squad player at best.
have to disagree, he's been consistently good since Kerr took over. nobody played well in Basle, and he was far from the worst on that field that day, and he was certainly our best midfielder.Quote:
Originally posted by Slash/ED
And he's not been our most consistent player in our last few games, he's been average at best and was woeful, again, in Basle.
I'm not going to go for some knee jerk reaction based on a few months of supposed good form (Again, I've not seen it myself) with Everton V years of form for us and Sunderland.
there's nothing supposed about his good form, he's been excellent, the everton fans' christening him 'Zinedine Kilbane', might be tongue in cheek, but it's because they appreciate him. He's a form player, he's improved and a lot of that is probably due to David Moyes who seems to bring that little bit extra out of players.
If a player is playing well, if he's gotten better, you forget what he was before.
....or do you remember Thierry Henry as a right winger who couldn't cut it in Italy.