Eddie in the Mirror again

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31/08/2009, 7:16 PM
naoise kennedy

Eddie in the Mirror again

Is he just making excuses for our league position or is he correct..
There are now nearly five clubs in trouble derry, cork, galway, bohs and dundalk cutting wages and they are still in the league.
We need a top striker and he says he wants to bring in 4/5 other players but he cannot and does not want to over spend his means.

I think he is correct.. we are trying to keep to our means and stay aflot other clubs are overspending and could bring there clubs down..

what do people think ???????????????
31/08/2009, 8:06 PM
superfrank

Transfer window is closed anyway so he can't bring anyone in.
31/08/2009, 10:06 PM
Hulsey

He's 100% correct. The reason we're down the bottom of the league is we haven't spent the money other clubs have on players, by cutting our cloth where necessary and we are being punished. A lot of the other clubs have overspent and are not going to be punished, even if they go over the 65% rule the fai will just spout more ****** about how next season there will be huge penalties given, untill that happens again and the same verbal diarrhea will be spewed. Whether or not the muppets at the fai have the cop on to realise it they are encouraging overspending in the hope of success by failing to ensure it doesn't happen
01/09/2009, 10:27 AM
Stevo Da Gull

He definitely has a point, but we really need to focus on ourselves. We can get ourselves through this mess, even if the odds are stacked unfairly against us. I haven't been to a game this season, but I'd like to think the lads we have are up to the task of Premier Division football, though clearly scoring goals is a problem for us.
01/09/2009, 10:35 AM
pineapple stu

Youz were cutting players' wages last year. Short memories?
01/09/2009, 11:04 AM
Stevo Da Gull

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Youz were cutting players' wages last year. Short memories?

Maybe if we had gone the same route again this year, we'd have more points on the board.. at the possible expense of our existence.

But yes, I have become forgetful since my teenage years left me.
01/09/2009, 11:07 AM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Youz were cutting players' wages last year. Short memories?

Indeed we did, slight difference though from what we did to what the likes of is happening at Bohs, Cork, Dundalk, Derry etc... We asked the players to take a small pay deferment for the last 4 games of the season, we didn't sign any players during the transfer window and then the minute it closes ask them to take a pay cut.

We have, as a club, always been very ver careful with our finances and have never over spent on wages or bringing in players that we cannot afford.
01/09/2009, 11:09 AM
pineapple stu

It's the same thing, albeit I agree that it's on a much smaller scale. I wonder did the wages you offered - which you couldn't afford - stop UCD from signing a player, for example?

I don't know how you can claim you've never overspent on wages when you couldn't pay wages last year?

Anyways, just wanted to fix the slightly selective opinions in the thread.
01/09/2009, 11:14 AM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's the same thing, albeit I agree that it's on a much smaller scale. I wonder did the wages you offered - which you couldn't afford - stop UCD from signing a player, for example?

I don't know how you can claim you've never overspent on wages when you couldn't pay wages last year?

Anyways, just wanted to fix the slightly selective opinions in the thread.

I honestly do not think it is selective being honest with you, i do think what happened to us last season for the final 4 games and what Cork and the likes of Dundalk have done is very different.
01/09/2009, 11:17 AM
pineapple stu

How?

(Genuinely curious; yes, it's on a much smaller scale, and yes, Bray have always been one of the more fiscally sensible clubs, but cut backs are cut backs, and I don't see a difference between Bray - justifiably at present - being annoyed that others are spending too much and that's partly why they're bottom and us last year being annoyed that others - including Bray - are spending too much and that's partly why we're bottom)
01/09/2009, 1:23 PM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

How?

(Genuinely curious; yes, it's on a much smaller scale, and yes, Bray have always been one of the more fiscally sensible clubs, but cut backs are cut backs, and I don't see a difference between Bray - justifiably at present - being annoyed that others are spending too much and that's partly why they're bottom and us last year being annoyed that others - including Bray - are spending too much and that's partly why we're bottom)

Because i think we really do work within our budgets and always have done, our crowds dropped terribly towards the end of last season which effected us big time, we changed our budgets to suit that this season. Dundalk for example went out during the transfer window and brought several players and only 2 weeks later asked players to take a pat cut. They knew it was coming yet still went out and brought new players in, that is bad management.
01/09/2009, 1:34 PM
Mr A

It's not just bad management, it's cheating.
01/09/2009, 3:05 PM
Hulsey

Stu has a good point. Ucd lived within their means last year and ended up going down as a result. Its very similar to our situation this year, but like Roo said, what happened when we had to defer wages for last 4 weeks of last season is far different from the likes of Bohs, Cork, Dundalk etc.
Also nice to see Stevo Da Gull back posting
01/09/2009, 3:07 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo69

Because i think we really do work within our budgets and always have done, our crowds dropped terribly towards the end of last season which effected us big time

But the crowds excuse is similar to what others are using (the economy, they bleat). I don't think your crowds overall were much down on 2007? Again, it's way, way less of an issue than the likes of Derry and Cork, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to complain too much about it in the light of having done the same thing last year.

Edit - per the attendances thread (usual disclaimers apply), your crowds were actually up 20% last year. In that case, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that running out of money even with crowds up 20% was anything other than bad budgeting.
01/09/2009, 3:09 PM
Hulsey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo Da Gull

Maybe if we had gone the same route again this year, we'd have more points on the board.. at the possible expense of our existence.

But yes, I have become forgetful since my teenage years left me.

Nice to see ya back posting here Stevo
01/09/2009, 3:15 PM
Hulsey

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But the crowds excuse is similar to what others are using (the economy, they bleat). I don't think your crowds overall were much down on 2007? Again, it's way, way less of an issue than the likes of Derry and Cork, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to complain too much about it in the light of having done the same thing last year.

Edit - per the attendances thread (usual disclaimers apply), your crowds were actually up 20% last year. In that case, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that running out of money even with crowds up 20% was anything other than bad budgeting.

The crowds were up at the start of the year when we went on our unbeaten run, but between the end of the middle series of games to the end of the season crowds did dip off considerably.
Your point is valid as your club suffered in a similar way to which we are now, but I don't see it as being hypocritical as its not on the same level as other clubs have acted financially both this and last year
01/09/2009, 3:19 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulsey

The crowds were up at the start of the year when we went on our unbeaten run, but between the end of the middle series of games to the end of the season crowds did dip off considerably.

But you make your budget at the start of the year. A mid-season slump would only be relevant if you went out and spent money in the middle of the season, which is kind of the point Roo's giving out about.

Quote:

Your point is valid as your club suffered in a similar way to which we are now, but I don't see it as being hypocritical as its not on the same level as other clubs have acted financially both this and last year

Absolutely it's nowhere near the level other clubs, this year and last, have done. But I think it should be borne in mind is all.
01/09/2009, 3:38 PM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But the crowds excuse is similar to what others are using (the economy, they bleat). I don't think your crowds overall were much down on 2007? Again, it's way, way less of an issue than the likes of Derry and Cork, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to complain too much about it in the light of having done the same thing last year.

Edit - per the attendances thread (usual disclaimers apply), your crowds were actually up 20% last year. In that case, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that running out of money even with crowds up 20% was anything other than bad budgeting.

Stu, i worked for the club last season, i was a victim of how hard the club was hit by a big drop in attendances towards the end of last year so much so that i was laid off ! i'm not talking **** dude, I was there - i saw it first hand.

What happened to Bray last season for the last 4 weeks of the season is completely different to what Bohs, Derry, and especially Cork and Dundalk have done this year. We brought no players induring the window last season, the same goes for this year.

The whole Dundalk thing is an absolute disgrace and for the love of me i cannot understand why the FAI have not stepped in so far. IMO, what they have done is blatent cheating - they knew financial truble was coming yet still signed players when they knew they would not be able to honour contracts.

I wouldnt mind but when we got Dundalk in the cup last year i was talking to a few people working for the club and they said they were struggling massively at the time and didn't know what they were going to do it they made it to the Premier, they just hadn't got the money to compete for bring players in etc.

I'm not saying it didn't happen to us but i am saying that what's happened is completely different.
01/09/2009, 3:43 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo69

Stu, i worked for the club last season, i was a victim of how hard the club was hit by a big drop in attendances towards the end of last year so much so that i was laid off ! i'm not talking **** dude, I was there - i saw it first hand.

I'm aware you worked for the club. I believe you that the attendances dropped off. But if crowds were up last season and wages couldn't be met, that's unfortunately surely bad budgeting?
01/09/2009, 3:47 PM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm aware you worked for the club. I believe you that the attendances dropped off. But if crowds were up last season and wages couldn't be met, that's unfortunately surely bad budgeting?

Crowds were NOT up last season and dropped even further towards the end of the season.

An example of this would be our cup 1/4 final replay against Galway. There was no more than 400 people at the game, it would have cost the club money to host it.
01/09/2009, 3:49 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roo69

Crowds were NOT up last season

OK, cheers for that. You can ignore my reference to the attendances thread so!

We're obviously not going to agree on the general issue though, so I'll leave it at that.
01/09/2009, 4:04 PM
Roo69

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

OK, cheers for that. You can ignore my reference to the attendances thread so!

We're obviously not going to agree on the general issue though, so I'll leave it at that.

As i said, i'm not arguing your point that it happened to us, but i am saying what happened to us is very different to what Dundalk and Cork have done.
02/09/2009, 2:54 PM
notever

Budgets and rules.

We should all remember that it looks like there are different rules for the "top" Clubs and the "others" who make up the numbers.I mean the rules are the same for all but only implemented against the "others".Cork and Drogheada should have been relegated last season as they went into administration........