WTH is wrong with everyone?

FFS, why must everybody point out the faults in every other club. As LOI supporters we're already in the minority, against non-soccer supporters and success-supporting EPL and Celtic supporters, why must we be so petty as to constantly poke fun at the financial troubles of other clubs (while seemingly, at times, ignoring our own plight?) and revelling in a teams loss on an international front?

Whoever you support, if you want the league to progress, your team to progress, you should have wanted Bohs to beat Red Bull on Wednesday. I did, and was absolutely gutted when they found the back of the net three minutes from time. Any LOI 'supporter' who smiled when that happened is a disgrace.

OK, Bohs have financial trouble and look set to over-shoot the 65% wage rule - they're still the best team in the country.

Shamrock Rovers don't officially own the Tallaght Stadium - I don't get why we get so hung up on this, it's their home, enough of the jealousy or whatever the Hell this is, it's a nice stadium.

Cork, too are in financial trouble. So are Derry, Galway, the aforementioned Bohemians... my own Limerick FC in the First Division.

What is everyones problem? Talk down your rivals players, talk up your own. Chant whatever the Hell you want at the games, but there is no need for this sadistic Schadenfreude. If Bohs, Cork, Sligo, Galway go bust this year they're all MAJOR losses to the league. And if a LOI team is knocked out of Europe that's a loss to all of us, too.

Yes, I agree. Let's see how long it takes for somebody to disagree. Not long, I'll wager...

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

FFS, why must everybody point out the faults in every other club. As LOI supporters we're already in the minority, against non-soccer supporters and success-supporting EPL and Celtic supporters, why must we be so petty as to constantly poke fun at the financial troubles of other clubs (while seemingly, at times, ignoring our own plight?) and revelling in a teams loss on an international front?

Whoever you support, if you want the league to progress, your team to progress, you should have wanted Bohs to beat Red Bull on Wednesday. I did, and was absolutely gutted when they found the back of the net three minutes from time. Any LOI 'supporter' who smiled when that happened is a disgrace.

OK, Bohs have financial trouble and look set to over-shoot the 65% wage rule - they're still the best team in the country.

Shamrock Rovers don't officially own the Tallaght Stadium - I don't get why we get so hung up on this, it's their home, enough of the jealousy or whatever the Hell this is, it's a nice stadium.

Cork, too are in financial trouble. So are Derry, Galway, the aforementioned Bohemians... my own Limerick FC in the First Division.

What is everyones problem? Talk down your rivals players, talk up your own. Chant whatever the Hell you want at the games, but there is no need for this sadistic Schadenfreude. If Bohs, Cork, Sligo, Galway go bust this year they're all MAJOR losses to the league. And if a LOI team is knocked out of Europe that's a loss to all of us, too.

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Trust a Limerick fan to come out with this sort of stuff.....

... ;)

(For those who's sarcasm detector is on the blink)

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Trust a Limerick fan to come out with this sort of stuff.....

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:D

I was actually defending Bohs after some people were overjoyed to see them out of Europe, and Galway after other fans gave out about some nonsense 'media spin' about Jay O'Shea... (though the insulting of Jackman Park, when we KNOW we need a better home ground, didn't help matters) :p

I'll play devil's advocate here. Bear that in mind here when you're abusing me for it.

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

Whoever you support, if you want the league to progress, your team to progress, you should have wanted Bohs to beat Red Bull on Wednesday. I did, and was absolutely gutted when they found the back of the net three minutes from time. Any LOI 'supporter' who smiled when that happened is a disgrace.

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If a Wolves fan saw Man U crash out of Europe and smiled, it'd be the most natural thing in the world. The attitude in this league that we should all support everyone else in Europe is parochial.

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OK, Bohs have financial trouble and look set to over-shoot the 65% wage rule - they're still the best team in the country.

Shamrock Rovers don't officially own the Tallaght Stadium - I don't get why we get so hung up on this, it's their home, enough of the jealousy or whatever the Hell this is, it's a nice stadium.

Cork, too are in financial trouble. So are Derry, Galway, the aforementioned Bohemians... my own Limerick FC in the First Division.

What is everyones problem? ... Schadenfreude.

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My team got relegated last year because all of those teams spent money they didn't have. Cobh shat themselves out of the league trying to keep up. Harps are struggling a bit too. That the iniquities of these clubs are catching up with them is only just, and every one of them who goes bust is a victory for clubs trying to build in a sane fashion.

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Originally Posted by John83

I'll play devil's advocate here. Bear that in mind here when you're abusing me for it.

If a Wolves fan saw Man U crash out of Europe and smiled, it'd be the most natural thing in the world. The attitude in this league that we should all support everyone else in Europe is parochial.

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True. But if Wolves were to improve dramatically over the coming years and finish fourth in the EPL, they would be playing a Champions League qualifier the following year. This because of Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leeds, etc. doing well in Europe before them and raising the stock of EPL teams in Europe.

If I were to wish Bohs, Sligo and St. Pat's would crash out of Europe this year, merely because they're not Limerick, I'm hoping that the League continues to not be respected in Europe for years to come.

Put simply, I'll wish Bohs a fiery death in Europe when the LOI has three/four teams in the Champions League Group stages :p

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Originally Posted by John83

My team got relegated last year because all of those teams spent money they didn't have. Cobh shat themselves out of the league trying to keep up. Harps are struggling a bit too. That the iniquities of these clubs are catching up with them is only just, and every one of them who goes bust is a victory for clubs trying to build in a sane fashion.

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Again, true. And this is very hard to argue against. But there's a difference between thinking, 'Well, they deserve it', and revelling in their demise.

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Originally Posted by John83

If a Wolves fan saw Man U crash out of Europe and smiled, it'd be the most natural thing in the world. The attitude in this league that we should all support everyone else in Europe is parochial.

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I think you'll find that, by literal definition of the ward, NOT supporting everyone else in Europe would be parochial.

Who gives a fcuk what English fans do. Part of the reason why I support the LOI (and yes - I don't just see myself as a city supporter, but as a supporter of the league full-stop. I go watch other teams play, I buy other teams' programmes and merchandise etc. I support City in particular, and Irish club football in general) is because it IS different to the banjo-playing petty parochial hatreds that exist in places like England. We don't actually need segregation in a lot of our grounds. Our fans by and large get on much better than fans in other leagues. This is all good stuff, and should be celebrated not lamented.

On the substantive of your arguement, if an Irish team does well in Europe it improves the standing of my league, so why shouldn't I support them ? What is the down-side to a club doing well in Europe for me ? You can claim they'll make oodles of money, but I've yet to see any Irish club do this in Europe (it actually seems to cost most clubs more than it earns them). And besides - one glamour friendly a year will rake in more than Europe, so who gives a fcuk anyway if a team doing well in Europe makes a few quid. It still improves the league that I support and that my team plays in.

A rising tide lifts all boats. I see no need to go around punching holes in the hulls of other teams out of some parochial response to this.

Or perhaps the reason we are all LOI fans is that we're all against the grain, us against the world, all the rest are hoorbags types who enjoy the faction fighting and abuse?

Personally I bloody love it.

Oh yeah, and anyone who disagrees with me is a disgrace :)

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I think you'll find that, by literal definition of the ward, NOT supporting everyone else in Europe would be parochial.

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I am Jack's complete lack of surprise: dcfcsteve taking something literally.

Oxford's second definition is the one I was using.

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/phttp://www.askoxford.com/images/phonetics/schwa.gifrokihttp://www.askoxford.com/images/phonetics/schwa.gifl/
• adjective 1 relating to a parish. 2 having a narrow outlook or scope.

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Who gives a fcuk what English fans do. Part of the reason why I support the LOI ... is because it IS different to the banjo-playing petty parochial hatreds that exist in places like England. We don't actually need segregation in a lot of our grounds.

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I mostly agree. However, the thread asks why we revel in others' failure, not why don't we, and so my point was merely that this is consistent with elsewhere rather than some quirk of the LoI.

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...if an Irish team does well in Europe it improves the standing of my league, so why shouldn't I support them ? What is the down-side to a club doing well in Europe for me ?

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Very little in and of itself. However, while it does no harm to me when, say, Pats do well in the league, that's not to say I won't or shouldn't chuckle if they're underperforming, or get knocked out of a cup by a non-league side or something. It's much the same.

Serious point here, what if i don't believe that success in Europe for another LoI clubs equates to success for the league as a whole?

What if i believe that success in Europe for a club (to quote a friend) "merely encourages the arms race-esque mentality that has festered in this league over the past 10 years, and generates the financial problems that are a fixture in LoI circles"

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Originally Posted by John83

Very little in and of itself. However, while it does no harm to me when, say, Pats do well in the league, that's not to say I won't or shouldn't chuckle if they're underperforming, or get knocked out of a cup by a non-league side or something. It's much the same.

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I wouldn't agree that it's the same. SOME Irish team has to win the LOI. SOME Irish team has to come second, third, fourth... if Shamrock Rovers nip Bohs to the title this year, Bohs can be ****ed. If Bohs are knocked out of the Ford Cup by some unknown, Shamrock Rovers are entitled the chuckle. The Irish game as a whole has not lost out.

If Shamrock Rovers are knocked out of EUROPE, then no Irish team gains from that at the moment. Some Maltese or Latvian club does, and our league loses out.

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Originally Posted by Hairy Bowsie

Serious point here, what if i don't believe that success in Europe for another LoI clubs equates to success for the league as a whole?

What if i believe that success in Europe for a club (to quote a friend) "merely encourages the arms race-esque mentality that has festered in this league over the past 10 years, and generates the financial problems that are a fixture in LoI circles"

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This is specifically why I said "in and of itself" in my last post. I don't think it matters all that much - clubs would be racing for the title regardless. Europe amplifies it a little, but it's not a root cause, and as someone has said, it's not like clubs actually make much money from it, so I'd struggle to justify wishing failure on a club on those grounds.

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

I wouldn't agree that it's the same. SOME Irish team has to win the LOI. SOME Irish team has to come second, third, fourth... if Shamrock Rovers nip Bohs to the title this year, Bohs can be ****ed. If Bohs are knocked out of the Ford Cup by some unknown, Shamrock Rovers are entitled the chuckle. The Irish game as a whole has not lost out.

If Shamrock Rovers are knocked out of EUROPE, then no Irish team gains from that at the moment. Some Maltese or Latvian club does, and our league loses out.

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This only matters if you consider the league's value in relative terms. I choose not to do that, as do most league fans. It's why we're not all Barcelona/Real Madrid/Manchester United/etc. fans.

Why is that? If you support the league, you'd want it to improve, no?

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Originally Posted by John83

This is specifically why I said "in and of itself" in my last post. I don't think it matters all that much - clubs would be racing for the title regardless. Europe amplifies it a little, but it's not a root cause, and as someone has said, it's not like clubs actually make much money from it, so I'd struggle to justify wishing failure on a club on those grounds.

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European success may not always be the cause of these problems but it's nearly always seen as the answer. How much trouble are Bohs in now that they didn't get through? The term coined by Bohs fans was "Salzberg or Bust" was it not. Same with Shels when it got bad for us, Europe was the answer, as it was with Drogheda too i believe. Kenny came out in the press saying Derry would also be up sh*t creek too, if they didn't progress

But that's just bad business. European success should be a bonus. You can't wager a club on success that no team in this country has every achieved. I'd be sad to see Bohs go but it's their own fault if it happens.

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

Why is that? If you support the league, you'd want it to improve, no?

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I support my local club. I'm entertained by the league. I don't necessarily support it.

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Originally Posted by Hairy Bowsie

European success may not always be the cause of these problems but it's nearly always seen as the answer. How much trouble are Bohs in now that they didn't get through? The term coined by Bohs fans was "Salzberg or Bust" was it not. Same with Shels when it got bad for us, Europe was the answer, as it was with Drogheda too i believe.

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Wait, you're a Shels fan? I've had you pegged as a Bohs fan. Oops. :eek::o

Yeah, the point is valid. I still think it's more symptom than cause though.

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Originally Posted by John83

I support my local club. I'm entertained by the league. I don't necessarily support it.

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Agree with you here. I no longer support the LoI, i support Shels only.

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Wait, you're a Shels fan? I've had you pegged as a Bohs fan. Oops. :eek::o

Yeah, the point is valid. I still think it's more symptom than cause though.

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Where've you been since Wednesday, thinking i'm a Bohs fan?

I think they recent years successes in Europe for League teams and the same recent years finacial problems for those very teams helps prove my point. Although i'm not completely disagreeing with yours either.

Interestingly enough this attitude of hoping other English teams fail in Europe has only come in recently across the water, as in post Skyification. It used to be the case that when an English team, which would be comprised mainly of English players, played a foreign team, the rest of the country went all patriotic and hoped Liverpool, Ipswich or Notts Forest would go out there and give Johnny Foreigner six of the best. Maybe one of our exiles could tell us what it's like in other countries

I can't believe someone started a thread on foot.ie called, "WTH is wrong with everyone?"

This one could run and run...

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Originally Posted by John83

I'll play devil's advocate here. Bear that in mind here when you're abusing me for it.


If a Wolves fan saw Man U crash out of Europe and smiled, it'd be the most natural thing in the world. The attitude in this league that we should all support everyone else in Europe is parochial.


My team got relegated last year because all of those teams spent money they didn't have. Cobh shat themselves out of the league trying to keep up. Harps are struggling a bit too. That the iniquities of these clubs are catching up with them is only just, and every one of them who goes bust is a victory for clubs trying to build in a sane fashion.

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I agree with everything Ped Ped said in the original post..our league has enough problems and knockers without LOI fans wishing teams the worst..i understand ur frustration at getting relegated while others overspent but ur comparison of our league to the Wolves/Man u thing is complete bollo x in fairness....they are different worlds.

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

Whoever you support, if you want the league to progress, your team to progress, you should have wanted Bohs to beat Red Bull on Wednesday. I did, and was absolutely gutted when they found the back of the net three minutes from time. Any LOI 'supporter' who smiled when that happened is a disgrace.

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You make some interesting points, but like most contentious issues everything is not always simply black or white.

I was disappointed when Sligo were knocked out of Europe, and pleased that both Derry and St Pats progressed (heck I even supported Pats vocally and financially in the first game); on the other hand on the basis of the Bohs board saying that meeting the 65% protocol required winning the league, beating Salzburg and finding another huge clump of money, this is a bridge too far for me. In my opinion it would be a (further) significant backward step for the league generally (and specifically the clubs in it) were this mad-cap and totally irresponsible spending to be ultimately seen as justified or laudable.

My heart played tricks with my head when Salzburg scored; my spontaneous sporting disappointment restored by the reality that it was a necessary evil in order that Bohemains may face the consequences of their actions.

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

OK, Bohs have financial trouble and look set to over-shoot the 65% wage rule - they're still the best team in the country.

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I agree completely with you that Bohs are the best team in the country - but can you not see the irony in your statement?

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

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Shamrock Rovers don't officially own the Tallaght Stadium - I don't get why we get so hung up on this, it's their home, enough of the jealousy or whatever the Hell this is, it's a nice stadium.

Cork, too are in financial trouble. So are Derry, Galway, the aforementioned Bohemians... my own Limerick FC in the First Division.

What is everyones problem? Talk down your rivals players, talk up your own. Chant whatever the Hell you want at the games, but there is no need for this sadistic Schadenfreude. If Bohs, Cork, Sligo, Galway go bust this year they're all MAJOR losses to the league. And if a LOI team is knocked out of Europe that's a loss to all of us, too.

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I agree with you - although I suspect this pettiness is pretty much a phenomenon fuelled by internet boards such as this one!

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

I agree completely with you that Bohs are the best team in the country - but can you not see the irony in your statement?

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To be sure, I can. Had they not been so reckless they'd not have assembled such a fine group of players. But because of their recklessness I HOPE that they stabalise themselves financially, not that they go broke. And I'll be sad if the latter happens.

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I agree with you - although I suspect this pettiness is pretty much a phenomenon fuelled by internet boards such as this one!

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I should hope so.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Trust a Limerick fan to come out with this sort of stuff.....

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The same type of sh!t you were coming out with 10 years ago.

I have a ruler.

to get fans in you have to spend money on players, facilities etc. to get that money you need fans. chicken or the egg which came first.....

Personally I feel wages need to be driven right down...clubs simply can't afford to gamble on attendances going up. It would also help clubs in terms of focusing attention on developing their own young players. And once the books are balanced, we can stop flogging our top players out of desperation to English and Scottish clubs for practically nothing

We would still have the same quality of young players coming through, they just needed added supports in terms of education and such.

And if lower wages mean less journeymen from scotland and england coming over, well that's no great loss...Except for Gary Twigg of course!:D

enough of the John Lennon ,How does my Hatred of our Biggest rivals conflict with my love of our league?Hippy bul****!

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Originally Posted by cheech

The same type of sh!t you were coming out with 10 years ago.

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And the award for completely missing the least subtle tongue-in-cheek comment since time began goes to.... :rolleyes:

:o

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Originally Posted by RoversHead

enough of the John Lennon ,How does my Hatred of our Biggest rivals conflict with my love of our league?Hippy bul****!

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Wish them as much sorrow and despair on a domestic front as you want, but when they're the only way for our standing in the Champions League can improve, it is going against the hope that the league progresses. Hope that they don't GET the LOI Champions League spot (the league title) NEXT YEAR, but when they have it they're representing your league.

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Originally Posted by ped_ped

OK, Bohs have financial trouble and look set to over-shoot the 65% wage rule - they're still the best team in the country.

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One point..... wouldn't they be connected?(and shouldn't that be expected, well i'd expect a winning team for that much money)

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

One point..... wouldn't they be connected?(and shouldn't that be expected, well i'd expect a winning team for that much money)

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Yes? I didn't say 'but', I didnt completely disconnect them xD I just put them seperate because they're two seperate things that non-Bohs fans love to chat about... never the teams performance?