And now St.Pat's have Money woes...

it goes on and on as another club tighten their belt heading into the new season, pro soccer bubble bursting?

St Patrick's tighten their belts

St Patrick's Athletic have moved to ensure the club continues to prosper in this era of financial instability in the eircom League, as club chairman Andrew O'Callaghan has spoke out today on the club's administration plans for the 2004 season.

O'Callaghan has announced that they are actively seeking new investors and are in the process of reducing an already tight budget in terms of both playing and non-playing staff.

O'Callaghan confirmed, "It has been a difficult decision to make but the priority of everyone involved with the club is to secure the future stability of St Patrick’s Athletic FC. Without additional funding, we have no option but to make reductions. This year sees us celebrate our 75th anniversary and it is up to everyone involved with St Patrick’s Athletic at the present time to ensure its future for the next 75 years."

more on www.rte.ie

But we made a profit this year. :D

I'd say Pats look like a much poorer product to sponsors/investors since Dolan left.
Who'd want to sponsor a club like SPA? What with their horrible petty little manager, boring "football" team, crap stadium etc.

I thought that Dolan was the cause of all their problems and now that he'd left all their problems were solved!:rolleyes:
Isn't it strange that without Dolan Pats are having these problems while at the same time Dolan's new club Cork City have just signed a massive sponsorship deal. Coincidence? I think not!

The title of this thread should read ''Pats Act To Avoid Financial Difficulty'', that said Pats played a huge amount of games this season and even had three derbies in the Cup, two Cup Final appearences etc if they had dissappointing total gates things are bad.

OK, can everyone please note that it was a Cork fan who brought up the subject of Dolan & Pats? :o

However, for once it's appropriate. It was Dolan's mismanagement while in charge of Pats that landed us with a huge overdraft that was out of control. There's no way that could be cleared in one season - what we're stuck with, and probably will be stuck with for a while, is his legacy to Pats.

Andy told a meeting of fans last November what the score was and it appears that he's acting to stop it getting any worse. As Tommy said, it's more a case of "act to avoid financial difficulty" more so than "are in serious financial difficulty."

If you're stuck on a runaway horse, first you slow it down, then you stop it. Try stopping it dead and you'll end up on your ear.

As regards the gates and the Cup runs, our biggest home crowds all season were the Cup matches against Rovers and Bohs but the away teams and the FAI between them would've got a fair chunk of those. Ditto the League Cup. As regards the League, our gates were certainly up on the previous season but fell away badly after the Cup Final.

Anyway, going by what Sligo said, that gate receipts accounted for approx 30% of their income, clubs still rely mainly on sponsorship to raise revenue. As far as I know, our deal with Autoglass still has another year to go, then we'll see what happens.

Pat Dolan's St. Pat's had the largest squad in the league for the last two to three years... it was well known that he could have had 4 to 5 full-timers in the stands at each game and 9 or 10 squad members in total... he has enough players to fill two half decent teams... Cork are heading to a large enough squad but letting players like Ryan Casey go is suggesting he has let go of his penchant for a large squad.

On the other side of the arguement is the sponcership... Nissan have been sponcership partners of SPA for a few years and it will be interesting to see will that continue...

He was a sponcership magnet, but an unimaginative manager who lost the dressing room and support at Pat's long before he left... Collins wasn't long at hinting at this either... seems Corporate dogs with a few quid like his bull****, but not many others... Cork suit him down to the ground...

His legacy is that SPA owe a few quid, some cut-backs at this stage will pervent it from being unmanageable...

How does this affect the 'full time' setup... and the job given to Charlie?

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Originally posted by Xlex
He was a sponcership magnet, but an unimaginative manager who lost the dressing room and support at Pat's long before he left... Collins wasn't long at hinting at this either... seems Corporate dogs with a few quid like his bull****, but not many others... Cork suit him down to the ground...

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Did Dolan not manage 2 league winning sides?
Collins is a petty little man with a massive chip on his whinging shoulder.
EVERY club in the country would like to get the "corporate dogs" on their side.
Nothing wrong wth his bulls*ht if it attracts excellent sponsorship.
Cork do suit him. A club with ambition, a large following and aims to be the best.
Whinging begrudgers like you would not understand.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Colm
I'd say Pats look like a much poorer product to sponsors/investors since Dolan left.
Who'd want to sponsor a club like SPA? What with their horrible petty little manager, boring "football" team, crap stadium etc.

I thought that Dolan was the cause of all their problems and now that he'd left all their problems were solved!:rolleyes:
Isn't it strange that without Dolan Pats are having these problems while at the same time Dolan's new club Cork City have just signed a massive sponsorship deal. Coincidence? I think not!

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Man you have some issues with us...

Anyway Xlex and the good Doc have it said. Except that last year was our record year for sponsorship and general off the field income.

I'm not too worried. Every Pats fan knew how much we were in debt. And its the same npow as it was one year ago... I reckon pats are jostling for money they think will be handed out to the other "poor" clubs.

sorry about the spelling you pathetic imp.... I don't mind the Corporate dogs with a few quid and I don't mind the fact that Dolan is good at it... He has to get involved with every other element of a club... this looks like the problem with Pat's... if he was a marketing manager and that be the end of it, Pat's would have suffered a huge loss...

As far as I can see, the players won that league in the registration season and all Dolan was a co-incidence... his best tool was motivating players and with all Shels were throwing at Pat's it was easy... Pat's were brutal in Dolan's last year in charge because he had either knackered the players or he hadn't the motivational stick to beat them with... IMO Pat's were worth full money this season after the horrible couple of seasons before them.

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Whinging begrudgers like you would not understand.

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what is that meant to say, I love this league and every club in it. I have strong opinion on Dolan and I'm expressing it, just like you and your ilk probably did when he was a SPA manager. I see what he had at Pat's, and I'm interested to see what he does to Cork...

IMO, Pat Dolan has turned away more potiential support for my club and everyone elses, through his column in the Star, then many an individual... He believes he is the voice of change in the league, a chance to broadcast to the nation all that is wrong with the League, yet with so much wrong he then wonders where's the crowd for the big occasions... Pat Dolan, is doing more harm than good, but if the corporate dog's like it then fine, but he denys every club in this land supporters....

anyone else ever have a non-believer give out about the muck he writes?

Christ, I didn't start this as a go at Pats, nor did i want it to end up with the usual City -v- Pats rubbish.

Since the end of last season, the top three finishers last season have brought in four new faces between them, and have let a large number of players go (with rumours of more to follow), and it's been made clear that this is to cut wage bills and to save on costs.

The only positive stories i've heard recently in terms of club finance are:
Limerick appear to have a benefactor at last
Sligo rovers made a profit (although they're still heavily in debt)
City signed a sizeable sponsorship deal
Funding will be made available to the european qualifiers to help get houses in order

but apart from this it's been doom and gloom.
Uefa licensing is going to cost va lot of clubs a vast amount of money, Players wages and bonuses appear to have spiralled out of sense (although some appear to be reigning this in).

Where's the money that the league needs going to come from?
Is anybody else worried that we'll lose clubs?

heard rumours LTFC have made an operating surplus for last season...

Also heard that money can't be drawn pro-rata on the devolpment grant, it's all or nothing... have 25% of 625,000 or nothing at all... this maybe hard for some club to furnish...

devolpment grants should be put back into respective sports if the money isn't drown down in a period of two years. Also projects should be broken down and smaller submissions be made so as to avail of as much grand aid as is possible.

Most of the doom and gloom is because of slow news season, alot of clubs who have had to cut back have been expecting it, I fully believe it will be LTFC turn next year despite what I hear.

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Originally posted by Xlex
1. what is that meant to say, I love this league and every club in it........
Pat Dolan, is doing more harm than good, but if the corporate dog's like it then fine, but he denys every club in this land supporters....

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Some outsider...:rolleyes:
EVERY club ? Your never miss out on a chance to have a go at Cork City, you miserable midget.

I think he can be a bit ott, and could do with keeping his mouth closed more often, but SPA groupies like you dislike Dolan, and will always think that anything he does will be wrong.

the whole pats/cork city thing is overdone at this stage and is sooo last season. For the record Dolan looks like he's doing a very good job down at Cork. If truth be told he'll be judged ultimately on whether they can win a trophy next season, time will tell.

As for saint pats' troubles I'd say its a case of hoping to ride it out in the incomeless off season and than we'll be flying again, well from talking to sources around the club this seems to be the case. Next season will be fascinating to see if bohs and shels crying poor mouth and "crisis" was a political con trick or something that has seriously damaged their competitiveness. If there is to be any knee jerk rescue packages by the league etc than pats justifiably want in on the scam and in this game perception is everything

example: ollie byrne puts the good word out that shels are broke and does several interviews saying their a needy case as if it was akin to the Bam earthquake disaster appeal - at the same time offers a journeyman a 1000 a week in wages to sign for shels

its all a media con folks


I dont trust any of them to be honest

Hopefully, wws, what you are saying is true, and it's all a media con. It would be a disaster if any club went out of business.
However, as someone claimed above in another context, surely this is doing more harm than good?
Is it not turning away supporters?

disaster if any club went out of business... true but if your blowing all your steam paying outlandish money you sow what you reap....

I also disagree with a media con, although it's apperant that is exactly what's going on... but in cases like this, the league should only make interest free loans available as a means to getting out of trouble, no free money for this stuff, also it's unfair to put your arse on the bacon slicer to compete with wage inflation if you rely on the FAI.... surely if SPA and Shels weren't in so trouble this time last year Jason Byrne wouldn't have been aquired and Pat's wouldn't have gone FT with a decent sized squad. I accept both Shels and Pat's have less players this year than last year but Shels are still monkeying around, claiming with the poor mouth and still singing the leagues talent...

Bohs are the only club with a financial tightening which is creditable and funny that they announced trouble earlier than anyone else....

bohs paid more money than they had on wages

and pats have a mix of full and part time players (as they always had)

not denying that, but Bohs have visibly reduced their playing and management staff...

Pat's are fairly stable but are late with their news suggesting exactly what you suggest is happening which is desperate stuff....

Shels have been pathetic.... asking for a new investor plaguing fans to contribute to some funds, without putting a share on the line, then signing Cawley, Marytn and Fitzpatrick.... Hardly cutting back massively...

side issue: aren't Pat's full-time based on some scandinavian model? which means full-time... someone has to compensate for 2 or 3 miornings a week, complimented by 2 or 3 evenings a week? even Bohs wounld have near 10 to 12 sessions a week during the season...

i've yet to hear a definitive statement from pats on exactly who is and isnt part or full time or what even constitutes ft in their eyes

all i can tell u is that in an interview on newstalk 106 EC was adamant that we werent full time

he mentioned that some players had the arrangement you describe - (darragh maguire and colm foley apparently, though not sure)

but not all players had this

conflict of idea's really, when did EC say youse weren't full-time....

isn't Delaney on that sort of agreement?

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Originally posted by Xlex
conflict of idea's really, when did EC say youse weren't full-time....

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He never said we were full time. Basically the players train in the morning, not the night like most part –timers. Some halve full time jobs and their employers give them a few mornings off but they still have to work the hours up.

The hope is to eventually become full time but we (Pats and all other clubs) can’t afford it yet

I would be dubious of Dolans footballing pedigree but he is exactly what CCFC need in the short term to enable the club to grow in the long term.

From what I hear Pat's are €100,000 in debt. All office staff can lose their job at anytime.
The Manager will only have 60% of last years budget for players.
In all fairness Sligo are twice as much in debt.

I'd love if Kildare County could sign Darragh Maguire or Keith Dunne on loan for a season, the jigsaw would nearly be complete for our assault on the Div 1 title.


:D ;)

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Originally posted by Cop on
Hmmmmmmmm , maybe the fans should be more loyal !!
Longford had as many (probably more) fans than Pats at the League Cup final in Inchicore - and had more fans at the FAI Cup Final --
Pats also refused to give us our fair share of the League Cup Final gate -- bad karma & all that !

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Thats all crap...

I definatly agree with Dodge, bad Karma my ass...

If LTFC had real concerns everyone would have heard about them... Nobody has ever mentioned anything!!! (Longfordian?)... surely it was all ticket with an representive of LTFC present and all accounted for.... St Pat's and LFTC have a great relationship.... Cop On won't tarnish that...

No we were perfectly happy with what we were given from the league cup final,m apart from the prize money being miniscule which had nothing to do with Pats. As for us cutting back, what we've done this year is not increase our budget from last year which was one of the smallest, if not the smallest in the division anyway. We dont have alot of money but we did make a small surplus on last year..There is some debt still but the wheels are in motion to counteract this..Everyone involved in the club is confident that within a year or two we will be largely debt free and hopefully running solvently from then on. The people im hearing this from are not dreamers either. We've never at any stage considered paying full time wages to players, we feel we're capable of achieving our aims with an extremely fit, committed and motivated part time squad..

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Originally posted by Dr.Nightdub
If you're stuck on a runaway horse, first you slow it down, then you stop it. Try stopping it dead and you'll end up on your ear.

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I think that sums it up about right. Today's Sun says that Bosco Collins and all backroom staff have been put on protective notice. Simple fact of the matter is that any club having financial problems reflects badly on the whole league, and none of us should enjoy each others woes. Its happened all of us at one time or another.

Quote:

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Originally posted by wws
bohs paid more money than they had on wages

and pats have a mix of full and part time players (as they always had)

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Bohs did have a very bad year [2002-03] financially but the financial difficulties arising from that are very near to being sorted out.

One of the main reasons behind our recent troubles was the club structure. That has all changed with a new 10 person board of directors about to be elected. 8 of the 10 positions have been filled unoppossed already, with the final Two positions to be voted upon at the AGM in 2 weeks.

Going forward we will be a hugely improved club in the off the field area with far more accountability and a far better administered club from top to bottom.

Bohs are very much committed to the full time set up. We have released several young players who were on full time contracts which expired as well as not re-newing Liam O'Brien's contract.

Every effort has been made to put us on a sound financial footing and I am of the opinion that a few other clubs see our membership structure as a way forward.