Keane-Doyle

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05/04/2009, 3:17 AM
weldoninhio

Keane-Doyle

Does anyone except me think that the Keane - Doyle strike partnership doesn't work??

I know that seperatly they are our best chance of a goal, but they just don't compliment each other at all.

Any thoughts??
05/04/2009, 3:25 AM
irishfan86

I've been saying this for a while.

There's no question they're our two best strikers, but on the pitch they work as individuals as opposed to as a partnership.

In addition, I feel Keane has played his best games when alongside a target man (Berbatov, Quinn, Mido, etc).

I wouldn't be against Folan starting in place of Doyle, or at the least coming on as an impact sub for the last 30 minutes of games so that we can get the best out of Keane.
05/04/2009, 3:30 AM
weldoninhio

I've thought this for a while, but was worried about posting it. They never link up, ala cole/yorke, sutton/shearer. They are both work-horses but don't compliment each other at all
05/04/2009, 5:02 AM
strangeirish

I'd like to see Doyle and Folan upfront, with Keane in behind. Could try it out in a friendly. Would be an interesting experiment.
05/04/2009, 5:14 AM
irishfan86

Quote:

Originally Posted by strangeirish

I'd like to see Doyle and Folan upfront, with Keane in behind. Could try it out in a friendly. Would be an interesting experiment.

I wouldn't necessarily be against this either- I just doubt Trap is going to change his formation after all of these years.
05/04/2009, 7:41 AM
Stuttgart88

you've never worried about posting anything else.

I think a lot of it goes back to the continuous problem of CM. Both Keane and Doyle get pulled so far around the pitch that they're rarely in orthodox forward positions as a pair so rarely link up like you'd want a forward pair to do. One or the other is regularly pulled deep or to the touchline while we're in possession.

That said, they don't seem to read each other's movements well. Late on against Bulgaria was a case in point.

Just as a general note, forward partnerships seem to be on the wane these days anyway. One upfront, 4-3-3 etc. seem to be dominating.
05/04/2009, 9:51 AM
Scram

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

Does anyone except me think that the Keane - Doyle strike partnership doesn't work??

I know that seperatly they are our best chance of a goal, but they just don't compliment each other at all.

Any thoughts??

Yes, my thoughts are that this is another one of your thinly disguised anti-Keane waste of space posts.

Doyle actually did compliment Keane after the last game, "that was a very crucial goal ye scored Robbie, well done" and as I understand it, Keane replied "sure you've scored a couple of good ones too Doyler"..........so there you go........complimenting each other......next!
05/04/2009, 10:13 AM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by strangeirish

I'd like to see Doyle and Folan upfront, with Keane in behind. Could try it out in a friendly. Would be an interesting experiment.

Ehhhh.... is that what was tried against Italy??
05/04/2009, 10:32 AM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

I've never understood the point of playing Keane away from goal, he's a poacher, at his most dangerous in the box. Playing him anywhere else is a waste, he isn't Totti that he can adapt to a playmaker role.

I'd agree with dropping Doyle now and again, picking the better compliment to Keane rather than the better player if we had a good target man. Folan is adequate at best, he isn't getting his game for Hull and despite his presence isn't ever really going to become a dependable starter for us.

International football is full of players not getting regular first team football or plyers playing outside top leagues.

I think Keane was pretty effective playing deeper on Wednesday. There's no point having a poacher in the box if we can't get the ball into the box. There's way more to Keane's game than being a goal poacher.
05/04/2009, 10:34 AM
livehead1

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

I've thought this for a while, but was worried about posting it.

Why is that? Hasn't affected you before...
05/04/2009, 12:24 PM
mark12345

IN REPLY TO STRANGEIRISH - Robbie/Doyle

Bingo, Strangirish, now you've hit the jackpot. I've been saying it long before anyone else (nothing like a bit of humility) that Robbie needed to be dropped back into midfield. And I even remember being laughed off this board by one or two who 'knew better'.

Reason we need Robbie out of the forward line is that there's a serious lack of creativity in the middle of the park and Robbie is one of the best attacking midfielders in the history of Tottenham Hotspur. That leaves Doyle and whomever up front. And I believe we found that whomever on Wednesday in Folan.

I know its a return to the long ball game but its all thats working for us in attack right now and we must go with it. The alternative is to sit back for 89 minutes like we did against Bulgaria.
05/04/2009, 1:08 PM
NeilMcD

Keane is our best passer of the ball and on Wed night he kept the ball very well and brough other people into play. Every time he got it the ITalian midfield had to drop off him a bit whereas when it is Whelan or Andrews they could push right into them and close them down very quickly.
05/04/2009, 1:09 PM
weldoninhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by livehead1

Why is that? Hasn't affected you before...

Good input
05/04/2009, 3:29 PM
strangeirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Ehhhh.... is that what was tried against Italy??

Yes, but I'm talking about a specific game plan centered around that formation in a friendly.
05/04/2009, 8:10 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

Bingo, Strangirish, now you've hit the jackpot. I've been saying it long before anyone else (nothing like a bit of humility) that Robbie needed to be dropped back into midfield. And I even remember being laughed off this board by one or two who 'knew better'.

Reason we need Robbie out of the forward line is that there's a serious lack of creativity in the middle of the park and Robbie is one of the best attacking midfielders in the history of Tottenham Hotspur. That leaves Doyle and whomever up front. And I believe we found that whomever on Wednesday in Folan.

I know its a return to the long ball game but its all thats working for us in attack right now and we must go with it. The alternative is to sit back for 89 minutes like we did against Bulgaria.

I think a more interesting take is that by dropping our reliance on 2 wingers (as a few here have suggested and Souness suggested publicly on RTE after the Georgia game) we could move to a narrower shape with AN Other playing the link role between midfield and the front 2, or a front 3 with the mandate to apply common sense and intuition as to where to go - deep, wide or out and out striker.

To me this poses the question is Keane better suited to be the playmaking no.10, or would he (and also Doyle) be better served playing further forward with a playmaker feeding him.

I think it's testimony to has ability as an all round footballer that he can be considered for either.

Also, I don't necesarily buy into the "return to long ball" theory. Although we scored from a classic route one Keane's changed role led to much more "proper football" than we played against Bulgaria, which was one big hoof fest for msot of the night.
05/04/2009, 8:11 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Man, what a difference Steven Reid would make to this side.

I'll definitely give you that. Sod Ireland or Andy Reid, I really believe Steven Reid is the biggest loss to this side.
05/04/2009, 9:23 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think a more interesting take is that by dropping our reliance on 2 wingers (as a few here have suggested and Souness suggested publicly on RTE after the Georgia game) we could move to a narrower shape with AN Other playing the link role between midfield and the front 2, or a front 3 with the mandate to apply common sense and intuition as to where to go - deep, wide or out and out striker.

To me this poses the question is Keane better suited to be the playmaking no.10, or would he (and also Doyle) be better served playing further forward with a playmaker feeding him.

I think it's testimony to has ability as an all round footballer that he can be considered for either.

Also, I don't necesarily buy into the "return to long ball" theory. Although we scored from a classic route one Keane's changed role led to much more "proper football" than we played against Bulgaria, which was one big hoof fest for msot of the night.

I always think that long ball works better when you are playing good football before it. It like an uppercut in boxing. It only works well if your jab is right. I think the good passin largely dictated by Keane and to a lesser extent Gibson when he came on was like the jab and the long ball to Folan and Keanes goal was like the uppercut.
06/04/2009, 1:49 PM
the-blue-harp

watching spurs at the weekend and robbie was coming deep and some of his passing was top notch, he was controlling things for spurs. and looked the best player on the park. so i would agree that robbie is best when he comes deep and gets on the ball.

ya cant drop doyle though cos he has been class this campaign, he hasnt been scoring a lot but some of his performances have been very big.
06/04/2009, 1:50 PM
the-blue-harp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'll definitely give you that. Sod Ireland or Andy Reid, I really believe Steven Reid is the biggest loss to this side.

i truely believe that if we had stephen ireland we would be top of the group now, its his creative spark that were missing.
06/04/2009, 1:53 PM
Duggie

i think robbie and kevin work well enough. would like kevin to score a bit more but suppose in a lot of games both he and robbie have to work back a lot. kevin is good in the air aswell so i wouldnt want to split them up at this stage. i think once stephen reid comes back hopefully fully fit in august he will be more commanding in midfield and take some of the pressure of the front two working back.

mcgeady whelan s.reid duffer looks a lot more mouth watering.
06/04/2009, 2:01 PM
Duggie

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-blue-harp

i truely believe that if we had stephen ireland we would be top of the group now, its his creative spark that were missing.

ah if only if only. we should just forget him and move on. I have and trap has. thats all that matters.
06/04/2009, 2:06 PM
the-blue-harp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggie

ah if only if only. we should just forget him and move on. I have and trap has. thats all that matters.

ha that made me laugh to myself anyway!!
all the chat about andy reid is all crap, its stephen ireland is the best irish player if only someone could go buy him an easter egg or something!! we dont need him, but we would be better with him.
06/04/2009, 4:48 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-blue-harp

i truely believe that if we had stephen ireland we would be top of the group now, its his creative spark that were missing.

I personally think S. Reid's athleticism and ability to keep possession is more important for this team than a creative spark. We're making chances already but we're also breaking down in CM.

It's a moot point though as Reid's injury record suggests he'll never get through a full campaign.
06/04/2009, 5:53 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I personally think S. Reid's athleticism and ability to keep possession is more important for this team than a creative spark. We're making chances already but we're also breaking down in CM.

It's a moot point though as Reid's injury record suggests he'll never get through a full campaign.

Totally agree and I hope Im wrong but I wouldnt be surprised if Reid was forced into International retirement to insure he stays fit for longer periods of his club career.