Croke Park

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gael...n-1593812.html

No great surprises here really. More than likely to go through, although you can be sure of the usual Northern opposition.

But from a football point of view, I hope we play all of our games in LR once it is available. Croke Park just doesnt suit football. The atmosphere for nearly all the games there has been very poor, the pitch is too big for football meaning the fans are a sizeable distance from the players.

Im not sure if from a financial point of view it would make sense. Yes there would be an additional 20k+ capacity but there is the rental payment to be factored into that.

i think the other factor that need to be considered is, if you continue to use croke park, after landowne rd is finished, although its a fantasic venue, surley it will be a waste of money on the IRFU/FAIs part to play games there, when they could be getting a garanteed full house in their new home,

yes it will be shame for the 20+ thousand who wont get to see the games after becoming used to it, but if you consider either paying near a million yoyo to use croke park infront of 70,000 crowd, or get 50,000 paying 40 to 50 yoyo to see you in lansdowne rd, and help to pay off the debts, and hopefully contribute to the grass routes and struggling FAI clubs, especailly during a resession, i think the second makes more economic sence, yes you have to look after the punters as well, and await the GAAs decision, but personlly, think the game should return to lansdowne,

it will certainly confuse the visiting fans, going from the old lansdowne road, to croke park, back to a gleaming lansdown road, just a shame it could not have been bigger

It would be nice to have the option I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elroy

But from a football point of view, I hope we play all of our games in LR once it is available. Croke Park just doesnt suit football. The atmosphere for nearly all the games there has been very poor, the pitch is too big for football meaning the fans are a sizeable distance from the players.

---

I was of the same opinion until the Polish match - they managed to create a bit of a buzz, proving its not just the venue, but mostly ourselves to blame for the lack of atmosphere.

When would CP realistically be used though? Maybe for a play-off game or a game against a big European side in qualifying.

It would probably be very rarely required although I guess it's always nice to have the option to get more fans in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mint sauce

yes it will be shame for the 20+ thousand who wont get to see the games after becoming used to it, but if you consider either paying near a million yoyo to use croke park infront of 70,000 crowd

---

Aside from the fact Croke Park is not suitable for football it makes no economic sense as you mention.

I believe it might be closer 1.5m to rent Croke Park. At those numbers the entire ticket prices for the extra 20-25k would go into the GAAs back pocket. This is even before considering Corporate Boxes, stadium access etc...

Slow day for the Indo journalists to even mention this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maroon 7

When would CP realistically be used though? Maybe for a play-off game or a game against a big European side in qualifying.

It would probably be very rarely required although I guess it's always nice to have the option to get more fans in.

---

In every campaign we usually have two "big" games......Germany and Czech Rep in the last campaign, Bulgaria and Italy this time around, these two games would sell out croke park in each campaign.

Even from a football point of view i dont think it would be a good idea for the game to play the majority of its games at one ground and then the two bigger games at a larger stadium with a bigger pitch etc.

I take the point about the poor atmosphere in CP is down to our own fans. I think the reason for that is that we now have 10-15k people at Ireland games who are there for the spectacle, day out etc and arent all that bothered what the final score is.
IMO the atmosphere at LR was far superior and one of the main reasons for that was that at each of the qualifiers you had a stadium full of people who really cared about how the team got on and wanted them to succeed. Hopefully the same will apply when we return. For example I dont ever remember seeing the mexican wave at LR as a way of "entertaining the fans"....certainly not in a qualifier anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elroy

IMO the atmosphere at LR was far superior and one of the main reasons for that was that at each of the qualifiers you had a stadium full of people who really cared about how the team got on and wanted them to succeed. Hopefully the same will apply when we return. For example I dont ever remember seeing the mexican wave at LR as a way of "entertaining the fans"....certainly not in a qualifier anyway.

---

Let's not get misty eyed here.

There were plenty of "event junkies" in LR as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maribor

Let's not get misty eyed here.

There were plenty of "event junkies" in LR as well.

---

Thats a fact.... I remember at the last France game in Landsdown a fella behind me askin his mate who the Irish players were all the way through the match. Drove me mental, most people in bits with nerves and this plonker askin which one of them is Duff again:rolleyes:
Croker has alot more of this crowd though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maribor

Let's not get misty eyed here.

There were plenty of "event junkies" in LR as well.

---

I don't think he intended to over-egg it. He did qualify the mexican wave thing as "being done as a form of entertainment" -by which I'm guessing he meant rather than with the spontaneity of too long ago.

But yeah ...the 'Lansdowne Library' tag didn't just fall out of the sky.

I'd prefer us to play more of our qualifiers in smaller grounds -not bigger ones -though I know it'll be LR all the way when it's ready.

While I agree we should never say never and I acknowledge that the GAA had to come a distance to let football in - I cannot wait to get out of Croke Park.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I remember at the last France game in Landsdown a fella behind me askin his mate who the Irish players were all the way through the match.

---

Nadir was for me when people around we cheered the Chilean winger Liverpool had signed whilst abusing Joe Gamble when his name was announced in the squad.

Like others, can't wait to get out of Croker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

I believe it might be closer 1.5m to rent Croke Park. At those numbers the entire ticket prices for the extra 20-25k would go into the GAAs back pocket.

---

The FAI & IRFU would be in a much stronger negotiating position with Lansdowne Road available so I'd expect the price to be significantly lower. Having said that, the last few games have shown that there isn't sufficient demand for tickets to require anything bigger than Lansdowne outside of maybe a game every two years and it would be silly to move from a stadium that the players are used to.

BTW, does anyone know the capacity of Croke Park with seats on the hill?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

Aside from the fact Croke Park is not suitable for football it makes no economic sense as you mention.

I believe it might be closer 1.5m to rent Croke Park. At those numbers the entire ticket prices for the extra 20-25k would go into the GAAs back pocket. This is even before considering Corporate Boxes, stadium access etc...

Slow day for the Indo journalists to even mention this.

---

As far as I remember the rental was 1.2m for a 'clean' stadium. If 60K+? tickets were sold there was something added on/additional commission payable I think.

You are also forgetting that the FAI had a lot better and greater corporate facilities available in Croke Park - not to mention the cut out of what an extra 20-25k plebs would eat and drink!

Also, it would be great for Dublin/Ireland if it had two good stadiums available to be able to bid for sporting finals/tournaments like the Heineken Cup Final, Champions League etc.

As for it being a slow day for a journo - someone from Dublin GAA was supporting the idea before Xmas - now Clare GAA are talking about it.

The canvassing has started - expect a motion at a GAA agm in the near future.

Croek Park seated 76,000 - 26,000 extra seats at €50 = €1.3m, I reckon the GAA would take 50% of this and it would make economic sense for the FAI.

Croke Park for Rugby - Hill 18k (i think) Seats 64K

Additional income for Rugby 15K seats at €70 PLUS 18K on hill @ €50 = €1.95m plus extra boxes etc.

I've previously said I reckon the England game will remain in Croker and quite possibly a few more as even paying the GAA €1m per match the IRFU will be quids in and I think 32,000 rugby club members without tickets will force the issue.

I think it will be very rare to see Soccer if ever at Croker but Lansdowne will end up been a predominatly Soccer stadium.

I would expect a Champions League final in Croker as well as a Heineken Cup Final every few years as the ERC move the final around.

Finally I can't wait to get back to Lansdowne and stay there.

We have 6 more games at Croke and then we're out for good.

As for the ground been unsuitable for football, there is nothing wrong with a pitch far away from the fans, it happens in most countries, including some of the biggest stadiums in the world. There'll be no problem with atmosphere in Bari, and the pitch'll be just as far away from the crowd as Croker.

The problem is, our fans don't sing at home games. A lot of this is to do with the fair weather element, and poor ko times, especially 3pm games. The atmosphere at LR has been poor for a long time too, mainly for the same reasons.

Once Lansdowne is open I am sure that will be it for Croke Park and rightly so , Think about the people who have shelled out for 10 year tickets for the new Lansdowne they would not be too happy even if they were to be given tickets for the big match at Corke Park if there was one .
Remember Lansdowne is home I always feel that we are playing away when we are in Croke Park ;)

both tenants, irfu in particular, made more money in the first year using croke park than they did in any year using Lansdowne. The additional revenue from additional punters, higher capacity for corporate seats etc far outweighed the additional rent it was costing

I think it would be abad move to go back there. We are too far from the pitch. A football pitch is just too small and hence the loss of atmosphere.

Playing the odd game there would mean losing home advantage too.

I don't think playing the odd game in Croker is a viable option anymore, not since the FAI have decided to do group tickets sales, i.e. you have to buy the ticket for the "more desirable" :rolleyes: game along with a ticket for a game against a "less desirable" team thereby guaranteeing the FAI the full income for both matches.

I suppose you could limit the amount of sales like so that you only sell enough to fill Lansdowne and any other tickets that are required thereafter are sold to fill Croker. But in all honesty, I can't ever see the FAI going back to Croker, I'm glad too. Never liked it for Soccer matches.

As someone has already said, it just seems like a slow news day for the journos. It is funny to see the GAA realise how much of a gravy train the last couple of years has been for them.

Like some people said on here, it's good to have the option. Every qualification game will be played in LR, obviously. Perhaps it could be used for friendlies in spring when the siix nations is on etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

both tenants, irfu in particular, made more money in the first year using croke park than they did in any year using Lansdowne. The additional revenue from additional punters, higher capacity for corporate seats etc far outweighed the additional rent it was costing

---

The FAI had a hefty price increase on moving to Croker which they won't be going back on so they'll make more money in the new Lansdowne than they did in the old stadium too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

Perhaps it could be used for friendlies in spring when the siix nations is on etc.

---

No chance, the place wouldn't have been even half full for the Poland game without away fans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Schumi

No chance, the place wouldn't have been even half full for the Poland game without away fans.

---

Tickets were already sold though, so it made no difference to the FAI coffers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaZmO*

Tickets were already sold though, so it made no difference to the FAI coffers

---

They were sold because they were grouped with the previous qualifier. If the qualifier is in 50,000 capacity Lansdowne, they'll never sell the other 22,000+ tickets to fill Croker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Schumi

They were sold because they were grouped with the previous qualifier. If the qualifier is in 50,000 capacity Lansdowne, they'll never sell the other 22,000+ tickets to fill Croker.

---

I know, that's what I said in my previous post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Schumi

They were sold because they were grouped with the previous qualifier. If the qualifier is in 50,000 capacity Lansdowne, they'll never sell the other 22,000+ tickets to fill Croker.

---

Good financial business by the FAI IMO and i have no complaints because I try to go to all the home games anyways.

If friendlies were sold on their own, i think for the vast majority they would be lucky to get more than 35k. I remember plenty of friendlies at LR in recent times against decent opposition with crowds just around the 30k mark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Schumi

The FAI had a hefty price increase on moving to Croker which they won't be going back on so they'll make more money in the new Lansdowne than they did in the old stadium too.

---

they may make more in the new stadium than the old but both the irfu and fai have done very well from the move to cp. if my memory is right in the 1st year of rugby in cp the irfu made its first profit in years. the fai too effectively increased its capacity for competitive matches from 34k to 70k+ which equates to about an additional €2m in additional gate receipts alone. if cp is available for a match like holland 01 id say its a pretty sure bet it will be played in cp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by janeymac

As for it being a slow day for a journo - someone from Dublin GAA was supporting the idea before Xmas - now Clare GAA are talking about it.

The canvassing has started - expect a motion at a GAA agm in the near future.

---

A motion has all ready been passed at the Clare County Convention. A vote will be taken at congress in april to make the exsisting arrangement permanent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

they may make more in the new stadium than the old but both the irfu and fai have done very well from the move to cp. if my memory is right in the 1st year of rugby in cp the irfu made its first profit in years. the fai too effectively increased its capacity for competitive matches from 34k to 70k+ which equates to about an additional €2m in additional gate receipts alone. if cp is available for a match like holland 01 id say its a pretty sure bet it will be played in cp

---

I would hope the FAI would not move such a game.

The atmosphere at such a game would not be the same at Croke Park.

I think once Lansdowne is ready it will become a permanent home and thus a real home venue.

Good riddance if you ask me. Even though I live nearbye I won't be sorry if I never had to watch a footie game in there again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gspain

I would hope the FAI would not move such a game.

The atmosphere at such a game would not be the same at Croke Park.

I think once Lansdowne is ready it will become a permanent home and thus a real home venue.

---

agree but with premium seat sales for the new stadium very slow the fai will look to cash in anyway they can. agree 100% about the atmosphere

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

agree but with premium seat sales for the new stadium very slow the fai will look to cash in anyway they can. agree 100% about the atmosphere

---

False economy though if we fail to qualify.

Most international stadiums have running tracks around them. No one complains about been miles from the action at these venues. I can gaurentee you if we are still in with a shout next october when the italians come to town there will be no lack of athmosphere in croker.

I have been going to both venues for many years and landsdowne road is no different to croke park and only on a handful of occassions has the crowd been really vocal in landsdowne yet we are 10 times more vocal at away games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperDub

Most international stadiums have running tracks around them. No one complains about been miles from the action at these venues. I can gaurentee you if we are still in with a shout next october when the italians come to town there will be no lack of athmosphere in croker.

I have been going to both venues for many years and landsdowne road is no different to croke park and only on a handful of occassions has the crowd been really vocal in landsdowne yet we are 10 times more vocal at away games.

---

Always will be this way......it's the hard core fans that travel at great expense and effort, and are usually hugely outnumbered (with the exception of Paris!!) so they put the passionate effort into vocally supporting the team.........usually assisted by 2 or 3 days drinking which helps to wipe out any inhibition:)

IF, and I stress a massive if, this was a viable deal on the table there would have to be serious changes to existing contracts.

Issues such as the ban on promoting the LOI etc on the big screens, removal of flags may seem trivial, but they are symptomatic of the mindset.

The quicker we are out of there the better.

Brehony mentioned it in the indo alright about opening croker.Hes obsessed with stirring it and the fianances of the GAA.No point using Croker,poor atmosphere and would only fill for maybe 2 games of the qualifiers,epecially if we are out of the running mid way through a group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperDub

Most international stadiums have running tracks around them. No one complains about been miles from the action at these venues. I can gaurentee you if we are still in with a shout next october when the italians come to town there will be no lack of athmosphere in croker.

I have been going to both venues for many years and landsdowne road is no different to croke park and only on a handful of occassions has the crowd been really vocal in landsdowne yet we are 10 times more vocal at away games.

---

Most don't actually. Even those that do you seem closer to the action.

The atmosphere has been rubbish at every football match in Croke Park except maybe when Bohs played there 100 years back. The Poles did put on a show and fair play to them but the atmosphere was still poor. It hasn't been a patch on Lansdowne.

Ditto for rugby with the exception of the england game

It may well be for GAA but it is a GAA stadium and the crowd is on top of the pitch there.

In order to make Croke Park financially attractive to the FAI and IRFU following Lansdowne Road completion, they would need to be fairly sure of selling the extra 20k seats (remember the seats mean Croker's capacity is reduced) and the rent would need to be considerably less than it is at the minute.

Can't see it happening. Nor would I want to.

But I'm enjoying the Gah-heads coming over all benevolent now there's a recession.

Croke Park stopped us having to play abroad but like Maribor and GSpain I can't wait to get back to Lansdowne.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

But I'm enjoying the Gah-heads coming over all benevolent now there's a recession.

---

That doesn't make a lot a sense.
There is no indication that previous opponents of opening up Croker are now advocating more openness.

Actually, in a poll conducted by the GPA of it's members, some 95% wanted Croker to be opened up, (at the very least) while Lansdowne was being renovated. That was long before the word recession entered the common vocabularily.

It is common knowledge that there would be a later debate on opening up by those in the GAA who want to dump rule 42.
The debate is being promoted by people who want to ditch rule 42.

The argument for Croker though has little economic merit once new Lansdowne is opened.
There is another picture, a few of the county boards that might well have voted against relaxing the rule 42 but have decided (so reluctantly) to accept their share of the rent revenues might well be more open to supporting moves to rent out facilities/or renovate facilities up to a standard for renting out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gspain

Most don't actually. Even those that do you seem closer to the action..

---

Well a few stadiums i have been to in the last few years have running tracks around them for example Tehran, Yokahama, Nigata, Paris, Stuttgart, Tbilisi, Tirana, They are a few that come to mind also bari and sofia have them too.

QUOTE=gspain;1084215]The atmosphere has been rubbish at every football match in Croke Park except maybe when Bohs played there 100 years back. The Poles did put on a show and fair play to them but the atmosphere was still poor. It hasn't been a patch on Lansdowne. ..[/QUOTE]

Yes and why is there a lack of atmosphere because the fans cant be bothered to get behind the team as you say the poles made an effort, so there is no reason why we cant. We certainly make ourselves heard at away games.

Hopefully the proposed singing section in the davin stand will make a difference and maybe we might get a few new songs to sing as the songs we have are tired and outdated.

Comprehensively put to bed in today's IT.

We're on our way........