£200k for star player, fair enough?

I know there are enough people on here with a bit of business accumen so I put this question to you, is £200k enough for a player that has just won LOI Young Player Of The Year?
Jay O'Shea was probably ripped off in hindsight but there you go - by that I mean Jay was a far better candidate.
For years, since the LOI was a random post BBS piece of garbage that even Dan O'D could make sense on we've been argueing for proper transfer fees and yet this close season we have seen Jay O'Shea, Keith Fahey (recommended in fourfourtwo magazine) and now McGinn go for buttons!
I thought Kevin Doyle and Shane Long might have stopped the flow but obviously not.
Disclosed fee me hole, 200k Derry got for a player well worth more than that.
Why do we bother?
I know why we bother, because we love our teams but it is ****e that Celtic can come and take and offer undisclosed fees, pish!
Year on year we try and better this league by supporting our holes off yet money and a feeling of beliittement lets us down. F**k Celtic and all that follow!

In another example, Derry initially offered UCDD 5,000 pounds for an U21 international goalkeeper and then declined to pay the higher fee agreed.

A player is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I can't see how you're upset with Celtic because Derry accepted their offer

Doyle and Long did cause transfer fees to rise, but subsequent "failures" from O'Donovan, Byrne and a host of others have brought them down again

CCFC reportedly got a lot more than £200k for Bennett and O'Donovan

People can say a player is worth half a million, the fact of the matter is that most clubs are hardly worth that on paper and those bidding know it. Reading seem to have some instinct for appearing at our door whenever we're most stuck to wave a derisory offer in our faces, but we keep taking them up on those offers because we [and most clubs] can rarel afford to say no.

its down to contracts whats the longest contract an eircom league player has, 2 maybe 3 years, most semi-pros are only a year, scotland and england sign players for 4-5-6 years, renegotiate with 2 years left, wheras we renegotiate with a year left, then your better off getting what you can for a player, rather than let him go for free in a year,

the eircom league is a far way away from offering contracts that can lock a player into a club, forceing the likes of celtic and reading to pay more, they will look for good deals, so if our players get to expensive theyll just go elsewhere

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Originally Posted by don ramo

its down to contracts whats the longest contract an eircom league player has, 2 maybe 3 years, most semi-pros are only a year, scotland and england sign players for 4-5-6 years, renegotiate with 2 years left, wheras we renegotiate with a year left, then your better off getting what you can for a player, rather than let him go for free in a year,

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Thats crap. Man U might sign Rooney for 6 years but the vast, vast majority of footballesrs in Britain are on 1 and 2 year deals

Transfer fee discussions are a process of negotiation.

The key to coming out on top in any negotiation is to be there from a position of strength (or perceived strength). To need a positive outcome less than the other side does.

City need £200k more than Celtic need either Niall McGinn or £200k. That imbalance in negotiating strength meant we were always going to get less than many people believe the player is worth.

EL clubs can't afford the balls to play poker-face in these type of negotiations and knock-back what is big money for Irish football. We’ll always blink first.

Until Irish clubs are consistently in the financial position to wave goodbye to such offers and say 'Nah - we'll just keep him and do without the £200k thanks', we won't get any higher fees. But it would be a very ballsy call to make given the current finances of all clubs here. The Directors of football clubs here understand that - it's the fans that don't seem to understand or accept it.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Thats crap. Man U might sign Rooney for 6 years but the vast, vast majority of footballesrs in Britain are on 1 and 2 year deals

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That might true at the lowest level, but certainly in the Championship (and above) the average is much higher than that - I've got a complete list of current contracts for a (currently struggling) Championship club, and only 3 players are on 1 year deals, all of them former Academy players that have so far failed to get anywhere near the first team.

The majority of senior players or highly rated youngsters are on 3 and 4 year deals. That includes nearly every player in the Academy - the standard contract offered to a 16 year old at that level is for 3 years (2 trainee + 1 pro).

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Originally Posted by tiktok

the fact of the matter is that most clubs are hardly worth that on paper and those bidding know it. Reading seem to have some instinct for appearing at our door whenever we're most stuck to wave a derisory offer in our faces, but we keep taking them up on those offers because we [and most clubs] can rarel afford to say no.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Until Irish clubs are consistently in the financial position to wave goodbye to such offers and say 'Nah - we'll just keep him and do without the £200k thanks', we won't get any higher fees.

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Agree with all of these posts.

I think Cork (at the time) felt they were in a decent position financially, and were able to hold out for higher figures for Doyle and Long.

Not talking specifically about the club in the opening post, but it's hard to turn down a bid of 200,000 quid (or whatever figure) when you desperately need the money to sort out financial affairs, even if you know the player should be valued higher. And any bidding club which does even a rudimentary amount of research will know the financial status of the selling club, and will bid accordingly. It has nothing to do with foreign clubs 'belittling' LOI clubs. It has lots to do with LOI clubs putting themselves in a position where they are forced to sell their players for less than they think the player is worth.

Didnt something similar happen with Leeds when they needed cash?

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

In another example, Derry initially offered UCDD 5,000 pounds for an U21 international goalkeeper and then declined to pay the higher fee agreed.

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What did they end up paying?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I think Cork (at the time) felt they were in a decent position financially, and were able to hold out for higher figures for Doyle and Long.

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We got completely screwed over for Doyle and Long, we didn't get the opportunity to hold out at all.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

We got completely screwed over for Doyle and Long, we didn't get the opportunity to hold out at all.

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oops! I thought you got better money than usual for them. (But still not enough?)

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Originally Posted by osarusan

oops! I thought you got better money than usual for them. (But still not enough?)

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We got €117,000 for Doyle and €30,000 for Long.

Reading offered the exact amount of Doyle's buy-out in what Eamonn Dolan, Reading's Academy coach called "an act of revenge" for Cork City's sacking of his brother. Long had only made a coupel of appearances for us so we weren't too concerned about it but the Doyle fee still upsets us.

Of course we recently shot ourselves in the foot by accepting any transfer fee for him in January would be €2,000,000 when we accepted a buyout of our 10% clause, so as is so often the case, CCFC are our own worse enemies.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

What did they end up paying?

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E20k (ignoring the time value difference of the E20k when we agreed it and when it was actually paid).

So the points are (a) Derry can't really complain about this when they do the exact same thing themselves and (b) £200k is a decent deal, especially when you're stuck for cash.

I think over here on this island, Expecting fees of €500k+ is a bit far fetched. There are some hidden gems that will make the grade, but unfortuntely there are plenty who are excellent players but for one reason or another they just don't do it. So it is a big risk for teams to fork out big money for a player who on ratio terms is more likely to fail than to succeed.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

E20k (ignoring the time value difference of the E20k when we agreed it and when it was actually paid).

So the points are (a) Derry can't really complain about this when they do the exact same thing themselves and (b) £200k is a decent deal, especially when you're stuck for cash.

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Makes Student Mullet's original point somewhat irrelevant.

I don't think anyone blames Celtic or misses the fact that we need the money, most of the annoyance on our forum (when it works) is directed at our board for a worrying habit of agreeing to friendlies as part of the deal, leading to our fans to pay over-the-odds to help to sell our players. Madness.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

...most of the annoyance on our forum (when it works) is directed at our board for a worrying habit of agreeing to friendlies as part of the deal, leading to our fans to pay over-the-odds to help to sell our players. Madness.

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I've never thought of it like that.
It is madness when you think about it. :D :D

But havent transfer fees improved even if only slightly? We will recieve our biggest transfer fee ever for Jay(whenever the deal actually goes through) and it will way outstrip anything we recieved previous. I would imagine that the money Pats will recieve for Fahey will also be their biggest transfer fee? In previous years anything over 100,000 euro was a big fee. Most fees for top LOI players are now substantially more than that. The fees are getting bigger although the current financial climate may put a halt to the increase.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Makes Student Mullet's original point somewhat irrelevant.

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Not really, for the two points I mentioned.

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I don't think anyone blames Celtic or misses the fact that we need the money, most of the annoyance on our forum (when it works) is directed at our board for a worrying habit of agreeing to friendlies as part of the deal, leading to our fans to pay over-the-odds to help to sell our players. Madness.

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True, especially when you get a junior team Celtic side with Paddy McCourt as captain. :p

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Makes Student Mullet's original point somewhat irrelevant.

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Not really, as we had to be "leaned upon" to stump up the cash. Also we were handing over signing on fees to subsequent signings whilst still owing UCD and others cash.

Ah sh*t, I'm criticising our board.

EBB- I agree with your views, but I don't think the majority of our support realise how tight to the wire we are sailing.

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Originally Posted by Maribor

Not really, as we had to be "leaned upon" to stump up the cash. Also we were handing over signing on fees to subsequent signings whilst still owing UCD and others cash.

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My point was solely in reference to the 5 grand initial offer, which has nothing to do with anything.

Obviously aware of the delayed payment, which is why we sold McGinn on the cheap (symptoms of the same problem, cashflow or lack therein).

nobody that has gone over from the league here has done anything near what doyle has done. o donovan cant get into the team at dundee united, bennet is playin with Brentford now who, arguably, cork are better than,
Long has done pretty well, daryl murphy has been decent, mccourt has not been seen yet although i desperatley want him to do well like all the irish lads. Houlihan is in and out of the norwich side but overall has done well as has noel hunt. jason byrne had a stinker of a time. dave mooney hasnt been seen yet. I mean how much do we realistically want for these players, I for one am desperate to see these players make it. I think if you ask any irish fan they all seem to want the loi lads to do really well kind of even more so than the ones that come up through the english or scottish academys. but lets be honest here paying 500 too 600k for players is not gonna happen its a business at the end of the day and to blame big bad celtic or any other club is ridiculous. business is business its in every apect of life its no different than people shopping in newry cause the exchange rate is so good. i mean how dare they.....:rolleyes:

for a selling league, which is what we realistically should aspire to be (for now), we are not very good at it at all.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

In another example, Derry initially offered UCDD 5,000 pounds for an U21 international goalkeeper and then declined to pay the higher fee agreed.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

E20k (ignoring the time value difference of the E20k when we agreed it and when it was actually paid).

So the points are (a) Derry can't really complain about this when they do the exact same thing themselves and (b) £200k is a decent deal, especially when you're stuck for cash.

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Here's one for you's all. Liverpool have only paid Spurs 10million so far of the agreed 20 million fee.

This happens in over 70% of transfers in european football.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

My point was solely in reference to the 5 grand initial offer, which has nothing to do with anything.

Obviously aware of the delayed payment, which is why we sold McGinn on the cheap (symptoms of the same problem, cashflow or lack therein).

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Derry paid UCD the remaining balance a few months ago,long before the transfer of McGinn.

But I do agree with almost every post on transfers from here as we can't play hardball.

St Pats seem to have got a good fee for Fahey because they are doing well with there sugar daddy behind them.

The O Shay deal would be a great one for Galway if the fee mentioned is the one thats actually paid.

Derby are paying us in stages as i understand it for O'Shea.Its 375k but over the next couple of years i think.

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Originally Posted by Candystripe

Derry paid UCD the remaining balance a few months ago,long before the transfer of McGinn.

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I don't think "one" constitutes "a few".

For the record,dispite a few valid points raised by people here i still think Celtic robbed Derry for Mc.Ginn,i'd put a very high 6 figure sum on him.He was one of the best young players ive seen in this league over the last 10 years.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

for a selling league, which is what we realistically should aspire to be (for now), we are not very good at it at all.

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I concur.

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Originally Posted by eamo1

For the record,dispite a few valid points raised by people here i still think Celtic robbed Derry for Mc.Ginn,i'd put a very high 6 figure sum on him.He was one of the best young players ive seen in this league over the last 10 years.

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But how did Celtic rob Derry? They offered a price which Derry accepted.

Rather than get angry at foreign clubs for coming over and taking our best players for we feel is a pittance, why not blame our own clubs for not holding out for more, and not creating a financially secure situation which allows them to hold out for more.

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Originally Posted by eamo1

For the record,dispite a few valid points raised by people here i still think Celtic robbed Derry for Mc.Ginn,i'd put a very high 6 figure sum on him.He was one of the best young players ive seen in this league over the last 10 years.

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Yes, but you're not the lad in charge of buying him. Derry said that a fair few clubs were interested. That means that a fair few clubs rated him the same as, or less than, celtic