Garvan? But I don't think he's what Trap likes either in a central midfielder to be honest.
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Garvan? But I don't think he's what Trap likes either in a central midfielder to be honest.
I remember people saying Miller was our saviour years ago. It takes time for new players to come through. It's Reid and Whelan for this campaign.
I would say Reid x 2 or put Joey O'Brien in but he's injured. Kilbane to hold midfield?
What crisis?? Our midfield has been fairly sound this campaign. We missed Reid tonight, but when he returns next year normal service will be resumed.
We are solid but unspectacular in the middle. The midfield does a lot of hard work, makes a lot of simple passes, protests the defence, and our creative outlets are on the wings.
Thats the system, and it is working. Cyprus had a lot of it in front of the midfield tonight, but ask yourself how much got through it??
We had all the chances of note, bar one. Cyprus had a lot blocked or charged down, but only because it was all in front of us. The only balls that got in behind us came through McShane, and I doubt we will see him at right back again.
There is no crisis. We have looked good, very good in fact in 2 games, and kept a clean sheet while still creating chances in the game when we lost our best midfielder
Crisis ?? The first name we would probably all put down is Steven Reid but he is so damn injury prone that he has already missed the game today, played against Montenegro when not 100% after he picked up a knock agaisnt Georgia. I'm amazing Blackburn keep releasing him to us!!
I don't have a crystal ball but you have to give players time, you can't write off Gibson and Whelan on a few games. Most former internationals say it takes 10 games or more to get comfortable, I think McGeady is getting there now.
I think we can write off Miller though :D
There is no crisis.
This is the problem that plagues international managers when choosing teams for qualifying games; do you or do you not break in a rookie?
I personally want to see Delaney, Garvan, Andrews, Foley and Folan/Noel Hunt given a chance in the friendly we have against Poland next month, and then depending on form, and depending on whether we have another friendly before the Georgia game, more new faces.
The only other way is to take the chance and start the new guys, or break them in through substitutions.
End of story. Until then, we have to make do with the reliables and those that Trap has already shown confidence in; Whelan and Gibson tonight.
Crisis eh? For the best start to a World Cup campaign in years? That's a strange definition. Midfield ain't perfect, or even ideal, but we're getting through whilst blooding new players and that's something that no recent Ireland manager has successfully combined.
Am I the only Irish fan feeling quite chippy about tonight's result and the campaign in general? All I can see are points on the board...
I'm quite sure Bulgaria would trade 7 points and Giovanni Trapattoni for 3 and Plamen Markov right now.
If we beat Georgia then them, bth at home, we will have a 10 point lead over the team i think we can assume are our nearest rivals.
And if we draw the runners up from groups 2, 3, 5 or 9 in a play-off, i think we will go through
Midfield was poor again tonight, not convinced by Whelan by any means and Gibson isn't up to it.
Midfield was brutal tonight. Have to wonder about Trap for a minute when he didn't change it round when clearly the Cypriots were running rings around us in the middle of the park.
Don't agree. Most of the Cypriots' penetration came from the wings and Konstantou's good hold up play. McShane and Kilbane were often stretched too easily and were offered little protection by Duff/McGeady (the flip side of playing with ultra attacking wingers).Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Man
The problem with the midfield I thought was that they played too deep in front of the defence, which is almost certainly what Trap wanted them to do. And their positioning is only really a problem if you want them giving more attacking penetration.
They did their job well - that was to protect the back four. I can't remember Cyprus creating one clear opportunity through a break in the middle. And Gibson and Whelan wern't run over the way Miller/Whelan were against Colombia, for example.
Agreed, I thought the centre midfield was solid, without being creative. I didn't see the Cypriots break through the middle of the park at all, all of their play was coming from the wings. Any shots that came in from in front of goal were from bad clearances.
Considering how overrun we were with Kilbane and Ireland in centre midfield 2 years ago, I can't understand how anyone can complain about Whelan and Gibson's performance.
Dunphy was over the top and premature in his criticism of Gibson.He needs first team football and could develop into a fine footballer.
Would also like to see Foley and Garvan given an opportunity against Poland.
While the boys did the job today, you've got to say they did the bare minimum. They were essentially stoppers, as Trap wanted, but our campaign will rely on Stephen Reid being healthy in our biggest matches.
We survived (barely) against a team like Cyprus, but imagine sending the team we sent out today against the likes of Italy.
Stuff of nightmares.
NO! I agree 100%! So much will change before and now at South Africa these points mean the world. 7 points out of 10? Please. The start is great. As long as Trap is of the living and managing this team, he will be working things out. They beat Cyprus today, 1-0, maybe a laugh for the international community but you know what? They lost to them 5 freaking 2 and had the 1-1 debacle.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Seriously Lads you have to start somewhere. They punched us twice in the mouth and we punched back today. Maybe not in spectacular fashion but a KO none the less.
Yeah Italy was SO GOOD against Cyprus. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
There was a local New Jersey kid suiting up for them today for F's sake. We are not exactly known as the great valley of Italian Soccer, the NY metro area.
Say what you will, but a team including Kilbane, McShane, Whelan, and Gibson would get absolutely hammered by a full strength Italian side, home or away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I could not agree more. It would be four or five nil at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I agree that these are not the shining stars of international football, but great teams are not neccessarily made up of the very best players. While it must be great to have players like Ronaldo, Kaka, Gerrard, Torres etc.. at your disposal, every team needs to show character. Thats what this Irish team is showing, they are grinding out results. No Irish team has done that for years. 2nd in the group and with a game in hand over Italy and 4 points ahead of the team we all thought would be our closest rivals (who dropped 2 points against a team we took 3 off) I reckon we should be delighted, imagine how good we will be when we have a settled injury free midfield. Duff, Reid, Whelan, Mcgeady are not too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I'm just as happy as you are about the result.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkCut
And I agree with you that every team (especially from a nation of our size) relies on a certain amount of workmanlike players.
My point is that you can only have so many of those players before you cannot maintain a top performance.
We can survive with Whelan in midfield alongside Reid, and Kilbane as a makeshift left-full, because we don't have much in the way of better alternatives.
But when a rookie comes in for S. Reid, and we lose one of Europe's premier right backs and have a centre-half come in to play in his place, we're just asking too much of everybody.
I agree with you that when we're fully healthy we can have quite a solid team out there, I'm just saying that we're lucky that we were playing the likes of Cyprus tonight and not Italy.
Cyprus pushed Italy and should have beaten them. Not drawn with them but beaten them and beaten them well. This is a decent Cyprus team and we did well for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
At home, Italy just about beat Montenegro.
Exactly. The Cyprus of 4/5 years ago cannot be compared to this Cypriot team. I think the majority of us forget how much they have improved (I know I had until recently) Cyprus appear to be doing what Turkey did before them, they even have a team in the CL who are giving a very good account of themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
Thats a fair point, but Cyprus are not a bad side.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Serious opionion of game last night, we had a keeper and 8 out field players, 4 defenders 2 wingers and 2 strikers thought they all had pretty good games, but our 2 centre midfielders are embrassingly sh*te, no way international level in fact i was think Amateur league they would not stand out. Defending they were not that bad once the ball went in and around the box but this pressure could have easily stopped if our centre mids were half decent. They failed time and time again to get the ball find a pass and move, more like kick it to the RB or a corner effort to McGeady, poor poor poor midfield. Caught in possession is a crime in the middle which happened, positioning was poor. I think Whelan is a fraction better than gibson but boy do we need a new midfield. Cringe city they looked like fish out of water. :mad:
I left the ground last night thinking we were lucky to get the win given that they should have scored that effort with 5 minutes to go but when I got home and watched it again I realised how many chances we created. The Cyprus keeper pulled off a great save from Doyle but it was hit at the perfect height for him and McGeady should have scored his chance also. At times, some of the lads looked afraid to shoot.
Overall I don't think we played too badly and Gibson does not deserve the criticism he is getting. I think he gave the ball away twice in the game and although he didn't stand out as being a great centre mid, he didn't look out of place and will only get better. Whelan played another fine game considering he was without his chaporone Steven Reid.
I thought Keane worked his socks off but threw himself to ground far too often and was far from impressive. McShane had a stinking 60 minutes but started to calm down in the last half hour. He still looked dodgy and I don't think he will start for us again.
We've got another 3 points with 2 home games approaching. If we beat Georgia and beat Bulgaria the same day Italy travel to tricky Montenegro, we could find ourselves top of the group at the half way stage!!!
maybe so, but of course McShane and Gibson wouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 if we were at full strength also.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
apples and pears my man, apples and pears
simple as this . a straight swap . the two reids for gibson and wheelan . if trap cant see that then were back to square one .
:rolleyes: Like they hammered Cyprus and Montenegro? Get real......Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
that's not even close to being a straight swap.Quote:
Originally Posted by skill school
last time i checked you can only pay 11 . stephen reid to break up the play and cover and andy to do what he does best . pass the ball . the two that played last night cant do either .Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
There are no experienced midfielders to step in for injuries. There are a number of promising younger players but they don,t even make the squar, McCann, Garvan, O'Toole, even McCarthy
But the old guys like Holland, Kavanagh and even Carsley are not up to scratch. Steven Reid is class but unfortunatley injury prone, so we neeed an alternative. If trapp beleves that Gibson is that alternative then he must play against Poland, but his only chance with United is in the Carling cuo and that is not guranteed.
I know McCann throught the rattler out of the pram with Givens, but I think this is the player Trap should be grooming as he covers the field, is stong, can tackle, pass and shoot.
Agree about reid. How we missed him last night. The performances of our two central midfielders last night reeked of reserve football.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I've got news for you mate. The "likes of Cyprus" are actually the third best team in this group. They lost to an injury time winner against Italy. People need to wise up on stuff like this. It is not 1990, where only the traditional European powerhouses walk over the smaller nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I'd say they are the 4th or 5th best team in the group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan 82
Wouldn't rate them ahead of Italy, Bulgaria, or us, and I'd say they are on par with Montenegro.
They are well organized, with a couple of decent attacking threats.
No more, no less.
This Cyprus team has been playing together for years. They are a solid squad. Also, Andy Reid isn't the answer. He is not the silver bullet solution to your midfield woes. He can't tackle, doesn't keep the ball particularly well and has no pace. He's fine in a 5 man midfield but not in a pure 4-4-2 particularly against a side like Cyprus who have a physical midfield.
He can't currently get a start for Sunderland, didn't make it at Spurs and is not the answer to our midfield issue. Maybe as a replacement for one of our strikers but otherwise he isn't in the plans and really shouldn't be in a game where we face a physical midfield.
Think you are in the minority with Irish fans with that opinion... but most importantly that seems to be Traps opinion of Reidy too.... Personally I think you are wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
If you think that then no wonder you're playing him down in this thread. He's excellent at keeping possession imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
Me, Trapp, Martin Jol and evidently Roy Keane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
He's a class player, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he fits in with our current structure. Put another way, he's a luxury that we can't afford.
I really haven't seen him keep possesion that well and indeed that was one of the reasons Keane dropped him.
Trap didn't play Pirlo though, enough said.
He can't fit into Trap's plans at the moment which is something that I'm upset about. He's one of my favourite if not my favourite Irish player. I think Trap could work out a way to use him, but I'll stand by Trap anyhow. But to say that Keane and Jol don't rate him is not true. Jol (possibly) bought him and I recall him saying plenty of good things about Reid at the time. Also, I think Reid has matured a lot since leaving Tottenham and he's a far superior player. Charlton went completely downhill when he left. As for Keane, whilst IQuote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
I'm not currently aware of how much he's been playing this season, Keane bought him and he was playing at the start of the season. I very much doubt that Keane doesn't rate him. He had plenty of time to see Andy Reid in training with the Ireland squad so I very much doubt that Reid is a player that he feels he made a mistake in purchasing.