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With Drogs now showing they are in trouble and the rest of the league in crisis is it not time for the players to wake up?
The whole world is in financial turmoil. Players are taking pay cuts but on the condition that they get back paid at the seasons end.
The league is obviously not able to cope with the current full time, even part time wages demanded.
The League will cease to exist unless wages are cut dramatically.
TBH the players will always push it, its totally down to the clubs to cut their cloth. The league are doing what they can with wage caps so its really up to the clubs to come together and come up with something.
Players have mortgages, families, cars etc. like the rest of us. Its not their fault the clubs have pushed their expectations up over the last few years.
Yes and so do the rest of us, I can't afford to give the club any more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
The whole league needs to go part time with realistic wages and try to build again before it's too late!
I'm not disagreeing, just saying you can't blame the players for the situation. If you're offered the money you're gonna snap their hands off. The clubs got themselves into this mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rebel Ram
Changed. Slightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rebel Ram
Would you voluntarily turn down a better contract of your job offered it?
I am completely at odds to why this thread was stared.
If your boss gives you and your colleagues contracts for amounts, which may in time, put the business in jeopardy, by accepting those terms, should the business fall upon hard times, does some of the blame and responsibility fall upon your shoulders? I don't think so...
Plain and simple in my book.
it is debateable if any university in the world has produced even one qualified economist that actually saw this coming, think of the league as the economy, these problems were known about years ago and just like the ecomomy were never addressed, no matter how many player leave more will come,
the league will probably have to drops its standards next year, one of two things have to happen either the players accept lesser wages (and guarantee a smaller sum per week rather than bet on a large one), or they will simply have to play elsewhere, and if one club want to pay the premaddonas let them, no player in this league should be earning over E3000 a week or even E2000, its simply not viable, but really who are we to tell the people running the bankrupt clubs how to run there business
In fairness, lots of people have been warning that the banks' exposure to bad debts in the property market would come home to roost. Any economist in any university int he world could tell you that it's a bad idea to give loans to people and companies that you know won't be able to repay them, even if you reckon you can make a short term profit by selling on that debt to another company.
The levels of debt that escalated during the cheap credit era were created without any hedged position against a rise in interest rates and this was also flagged. There were plenty of economists out there who predicted that a rise in interest rates would have a huge snowball effect, particularly once the sub-prime market in the states started to go belly-up.
From a league point of view, yes the clubs need to sort it out themselves, but it doesn't help when the PFAI comes out stringly against any form of wage cap - even in the greater economy the trade unions realise that it's better to keep wages realistic than to have them astronomical for a year or two after which all the employers are bankrupt.
If clubs are going to offer players full-time contracts, the wages the clubs offer must surpass what the players could earn by working full-time and playing part-time.
Additionally a footballer's career is short-lived and any full-time wages offered must take this into account.
Whats needed is strong management from boards to give an accurate wage figure. If I got a pay rise I'm not going to turn it down because " I may put the company in jepordy" F*ck that their problem, same with clubs.
Clubs got themselves into this mess by not having the balls to stand up to players and give them an honest wage. in some cases they are offering English Championship wages to conference players. Players are over paid but you can blame them for getting the best for themselves and their families
245,469 EUR avearage championship wage :eek:
85,156 EUR average league 1 wage:eek:
62,615 EUR average league 2 wage:eek:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4898392.stm
even in england there to unrealistic, so i cant see an end to the problem,
Cant blame players for getting the best deal - it's not for them to worry where the money comes from.
It seems that no club in the league can do basic financial management. If you dont have the money then dont spend it. The projected budgeting is farcical too. Some clubs budgeting on random figures pulled out of the sky. take your income from last year and budget on that.you can always release more money into the club if your making it and things are going well. The league has improved but that has been done on the back of incurring large debts. Speculate to accumulate is all well and good but it has never worked in this league and I cant see why any club would ever see it working.
Not all the players are to blame, we lost Hughes and Faz to Drogheda recently , both players were well paid but were offered double your money deals with free rent apartments , it was Drogs rather than the players who were doing the pushing.
As above, none of the players are to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by londonred
I'll add to this and say the main thing I despise about a club's fans when they have money trouble is the amount of them that call one of their own player's a Judas or scum for not accepting a pay cut. He has a contract and can understandbly expect that contract to be fulfilled, no matter the cost to the club. I've always asked people like that if they would accept (say) a 70% pay cut on their legally binding contract if their boss asked them to
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Originally Posted by jebus
Here Here
Excellent post. Club directors are to blame, pretty much solely.Quote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
I'd've banned Ronan Seery and Ollie Byrne from any involvement in the eL for five years (not sure when from; probably when the club went burst (sic) ), and would do the same now with Walsh at Cork and Hoey at Drogheda. It's slightly off topic, but the trail of debt left by these clubs is nonsense and could well threaten evey one's existance (bar Dublin City obviously).
All clubs should sit down and agree on a cap on the amount a player is paid weekly ie all clubs agree that that they will not pay a player more than 1000 euro a week
It could work as only a few players are good enough to play in england(left them go) and the rest will have to accept if the want get payed for playing soccer.
If we say that players will always look after their short-term self-interest (as we all do) and that clubs will always look after their short-term self-interest (being as successful as possible), then what we need is an outside agency looking after the longer term interest, by say, introducing some kind of limit on spending.
Wait a minute........
No, because all clubs are different.
Clubs individually should agree on a wage budget. But that's highly unambitious.
And that was 2 years ago, it has shot up since then. I know a guy who hasn't played first team football in England who "earns" 10k sterling a week witha championship sideQuote:
Originally Posted by don ramo
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino
That's not fair. Shamrock Rovers have been run on a tight ship since their fans took over. UCD are run at breakeven. Bray seem to be in okay shape. There are clubs living within their means.Quote:
It seems that no club in the league can do basic financial management...
Who is responsible for the books in each club? Who signed the cheques and gave the go ahead for the contracts? Who decided on the figures to pay players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
In Cork Citys case it was Aidan Tynan who was responsible, he was previously involved in more scandal with Bord na cCon in 2006. I looks like he is free to walk to third sporting organisation in Ireland to reek more havoc with them now. The guy just keeps getting away with it.
If the answer to this turns out to be Peter Ridsdale in disguise :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
ya these club deserve to be in the prem any club that spends within there means deserves to be in the prem, no point being good on the pitch if your ****e off it, clubs simply have to get in line and put the foot down and not grovel, im not saying players dont deserve to be on so much, its an industrial standard wage i suppose, but most clubs, simply put, are not in a poistion to pay the wages the player expect, so theyll just have to accept it or go foreign,Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
i thought the FAI were on about educational advantages for playing with a LOI club, like the rugby, as you play full time, the club will put you through coledge so that when your finnished playing you have a career set to go, surely that would be an acceptable propostion for lower wages,
Add Limerick and Wexford to that list, I think Dundalk are in okay financial shape as well, one of their fans might be able to verify thatQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
For some. Most will laught it out of the roomQuote:
Originally Posted by don ramo
Sure. I didn't mean to imply that the clubs I mentioned were the only ones doing okay. I've seen Wexford's 2007 accounts, and they seem fine. I haven't really heard anything about Limerick or Dundalk, though a few people have mentioned Limerick as being well run right now.
So if all goes to plan we'll have a Premier League next year of UCD, Bray, Rovers, Limerick, Dundalk and Wexford with 4 others? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
as far as we are made to believe we are ok and running at b/e or profit. But we are a private company and we have to take our chairmans word on it. Personally no financial news from dundalk is good news and i have no reason to disbelieve our chairman. From the outside eveything looks good
Not really fair is it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainee
I mean say Shels had millions in the bank and so did Finn Harps.
If Shels and Harps offer the best player in the league a job do you think he'd run off to Donegal ?
Your wage cap would kill the country teams.
Assuming they could afford the 1000 clubs like Bohs Shels Cork Pats Rovers etc would always have their pick of the best players.
My solution to this problem is to begin hitting teams on their infastructure,, force them into spending on their grounds so players wages can't 99% of where funds go to.
Our grounds are a joke.
The FAI should simply not award clubs like Drogheda a licence as they have not got a decent ground. For example had they invested in increasing the capacity over the last few years they wouldn't be left with only 2000 on Friday for a league winning game when they are short of cash!
I know that we lost out on some good players this season as they were offered more money from other clubs when they were signing. They have since had to take pay cuts and are now on not much more or maybe nothing more than they would have gotten here. Our manager is given a budget, he has to stick to it and if a player pushes for more than our manager can afford to give him he is told to go get it somewhere else.
So essentially, our team suffers because players are told they are going to get bigger wages elsewhere but then those clubs cant afford to pay them and they are in reality no better off.
You can add us to the list of clubs working with our means so will see you in the Premier next year Dundalk!
Don't say that magicme. Can i not have a season where I don't have to go to the KCP. Oh please jesus, buddha and alllah please don't promote Monaghan. I'll do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
:D I think you are safe enough. Only way you will see us again next year is if you stuff it up yourselves or we get drawn in one of the cups again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite
Am kinda sick of Oriel myself so although it goes against all that is holy, I am kinda hoping you get promoted!
& I wish Monaghan self sustainabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
Is this what they call a "truce"??? :D
Thanks Jinxy, you may find it hard to believe but I was very annoyed at the prospect of yourselves going bust a few seasons ago, mainly coz I liked when we would beat you at KCP but also coz I hate to see any clubs in trouble so in these troubled times that is the best wish you could have for any club.
It's very possible that next year we will have a top tier of perhaps 16 financially sound clubs from the 2 divisions(which would have a vast difference in ability to compete) and a 2nd tier from the remainder/A Championship teams.
Obviously the distinction between divisions should reflect footballing ability but I fear that is quickly becoming unachievable.
The blame is 100% with the clubs.
And regarding our own situation we've done fine this year and have kept our expenditure to a minimum (sight seeing trips to see what are apparantly the finest two pitches in the country notwithstanding) we'd be no better off than the Longfords or Kildares of this world were it not for Chairman McCarthy (we'd obviously still have a few more fans than Kildare). While I'm pleased that it looks like we'll manage a full season without a public financial crisis my natural pessimism isn't allowing me to get carried away just yet.
Aren't you a co-op? If you're a company, you can get your accounts on the CRO. But I've been there with no joy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite