Respect for LOI increasing

definetly is in my opinion. whether or not people will get up and go to matches is an other thing, in fact i know a few lads who were bray fans who now that there in college have stopped going really but still for me this is a massive period for LOI.

the product is there...forget 27 year old 'die hard' spurs fans, they won't be at a LOI game anytime soon but seriously i know the clubs do this but clubs should be whoring themselves out now. going to schools and getting their name out there.

i am cautiously optimistic, i honestly am, i think for the dublin clubs at least there could be an upsurge in attendances within 2 years.

I hope your right but I can't see attendances going up by much, in the short term at least. Most people just don't care. They're happy enough watching their team on Sky every week. That's fair enough but it's just so sad to see :(

Results like Drogheda's and our's this year can't do any harm tho.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

definetly is in my opinion. whether or not people will get up and go to matches is an other thing, in fact i know a few lads who were bray fans who now that there in college have stopped going really but still for me this is a massive period for LOI.

the product is there...forget 27 year old 'die hard' spurs fans, they won't be at a LOI game anytime soon but seriously i know the clubs do this but clubs should be whoring themselves out now. going to schools and getting their name out there.
i am cautiously optimistic, i honestly am, i think for the dublin clubs at least there could be an upsurge in attendances within 2 years.

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League of Ireland clubs have been doing this since March 07. The problem is that when these kids do drag parents to matches they are invariably in crap stadia with little or no extra entertainment. As a result they dont come back.

Slightly off topic but in general Irish people are event junkies and dont want to get involved in anything that lasts for 33 match days. Just look at the GAA. They get huge crowds for championship one off fixtures but paltry attendances for league games. Its similar in Rugby (but that does appear to be changing) huge crowds for europe and much smaller for Celtic league.

Where are all these 'wonderful' fans for league games in GAA and Celtic league in Rugby? Theyre at home watching Liverpool,Celtic et al on the box!:)

In fact we only have to look at our own internatioanl team. 50-80k people watching them in Croke Park but yeat the average attendance in our league sees only about 12-15k people a week.

Jeez. I only wish LOI clubs could get the paltry attendance figures for our league games as the GAA do for theirs!

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Jeez. I only wish LOI clubs could get the paltry attendance figures for our league games as the GAA do for theirs!

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OK I meant in relation to championship matches not in relation to our league!

For top dividion 1 games the max would be about 10-15k. This would be for Dublin V Cork or what have ye. The overall average is about 5k. I cant back those figures up with anything other than figures I was given by a couple of die hard GAHMEN so if anyone has official figures I stand to be corrected. (I'd love to see official figures!).

Also dont forget the GAA league thingy is only played over 7 games each so fans may only be asked to go to 3 or 4 home games! Hardly enough to test a 'Loyal' fans endurance is it?

My point was that we play too many games in the league to get the Irish publics interest but what are you going to do?

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Originally Posted by Titan

OK I meant in relation to championship matches not in relation to our league!

For top dividion 1 games the max would be about 10-15k. This would be for Dublin V Cork or what have ye. The overall average is about 5k. I cant back those figures up with anything other than figures I was given by a couple of die hard GAHMEN so if anyone has official figures I stand to be corrected. (I'd love to see official figures!).

Also dont forget the GAA league thingy is only played over 7 games each so fans may only be asked to go to 3 or 4 home games! Hardly enough to test a 'Loyal' fans endurance is it?

My point was that we play too many games in the league to get the Irish publics interest but what are you going to do?

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You need to add club attendances to this for Gaa. Although most games would get below 1000 there are a very large number of games, 300 or so per week.

I'd tend to agree with the original post. Respect, in Derry at least, is much greater now than it used to be, even compared with three or four years ago. It used to be the case you'd get a slagging wearing a Derry top in a bar after a match, but these days people seem more interested in asking you the result, rather than asking how you can watch that pile of ****e and telling you how class Celtic are.

I’d say European results have definitely given the LOI a lot more credibility.

The only thing now that could rock the credibility of the league is if more of these financial problems rise to the surface. Let’s hope a lot of these rumours etc are all empty. If the LOI is a success, then it gives the IL something of an example to follow.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

definetly is in my opinion. whether or not people will get up and go to matches is an other thing, in fact i know a few lads who were bray fans who now that there in college have stopped going really but still for me this is a massive period for LOI.

the product is there...forget 27 year old 'die hard' spurs fans, they won't be at a LOI game anytime soon but seriously i know the clubs do this but clubs should be whoring themselves out now. going to schools and getting their name out there.

i am cautiously optimistic, i honestly am, i think for the dublin clubs at least there could be an upsurge in attendances within 2 years.

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On what basis do you make your last assertion ? Why are Dublin clubs going to see a sudden upsurge in attendances ? Seriously.

I'd argue that Dublin clubs are the worst placed for an 'upsurge' in support. Noen of them even have particularly strong fan-bases to start with (note Pats poor attendnace versus Hertha, and Bohs relatively low crowd tonight for what could've been a title winning home game). No Dublin club has the local identity and 'pride' factor to tap into that clubs elsewhere in the country do.

I can only see Rovers changing this in the near future, if they can crack the Tallaght population in their first couple of seasons. I see no magic wand for any other Dublin club.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

). No Dublin club has the local identity and 'pride' factor to tap into that clubs elsewhere in the country do.

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Not true. Both us and Pat's have strong ties with the areas in which we are based - part of the problem is that, unlike Derry, Dublin has sprawled over the past few decades, and much of the population of north and west Dublin has moved - or been moved - further out, making maintaining contact with the club difficult, especially as people grow older and family interests become more pressing. Driving into Dalymount from Mulhuddart after a day's work is a lot more time consuming than strolling down from Cabra, perhaps with a stop for a few on the way; ditto with Lucan and Inchicore respectively for Pat's.

Both Phibsboro' and Inchicore now have large immigrant populations and both clubs have worked to forge links with these groups, but for people who a) are probably working very hard, and b) don't necessarily see themselves as staying long in their current homes, and c) probably find social and cultural activities with their peers more sustaining and enjoyable than ones in which they would be distinct minority, its a challenge.

I accept attendances for the Dublin clubs are poor, and I'm not trying to make excuses; but to say that there is no sense of identity or local pride associated with supporting your team in Dublin is just wrong.

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Not true. Both us and Pat's have strong ties with the areas in which we are based - part of the problem is that, unlike Derry, Dublin has sprawled over the past few decades, and much of the population of north and west Dublin has moved - or been moved - further out, making maintaining contact with the club difficult, especially as people grow older and family interests become more pressing. Driving into Dalymount from Mulhuddart after a day's work is a lot more time consuming than strolling down from Cabra, perhaps with a stop for a few on the way; ditto with Lucan and Inchicore respectively for Pat's.

Both Phibsboro' and Inchicore now have large immigrant populations and both clubs have worked to forge links with these groups, but for people who a) are probably working very hard, and b) don't necessarily see themselves as staying long in their current homes, and c) probably find social and cultural activities with their peers more sustaining and enjoyable than ones in which they would be distinct minority, its a challenge.

I accept attendances for the Dublin clubs are poor, and I'm not trying to make excuses; but to say that there is no sense of identity or local pride associated with supporting your team in Dublin is just wrong.

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If there is such a strong local identity for the likes of Bohs and Pats, then why are your crowds so relatively poor ? There's a major disconnnect there.

Pats in particular have poor attendances. Hertha Berlin last week was arguably Pats biggest home game in years - yet the crowd was very poor (3,000 quoted on one place, 5,000 mentioned here). Their support at the 2006 Cup Final was also poor. If the club has such a strong connection to its local community, why do they not turn out to support it even in big historical games ? It just doesn't add up.

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Originally Posted by Titan

OK I meant in relation to championship matches not in relation to our league!

For top dividion 1 games the max would be about 10-15k. This would be for Dublin V Cork or what have ye. The overall average is about 5k. I cant back those figures up with anything other than figures I was given by a couple of die hard GAHMEN so if anyone has official figures I stand to be corrected. (I'd love to see official figures!).

Also dont forget the GAA league thingy is only played over 7 games each so fans may only be asked to go to 3 or 4 home games! Hardly enough to test a 'Loyal' fans endurance is it?

My point was that we play too many games in the league to get the Irish publics interest but what are you going to do?

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Don't forget GAA club football. The latter stages of the club championships in most counties are very well attended. One of the football semi's in Derry a couple of weeks ago had around 5,000 at it. There were around 15,000 at the Cork senior hurling final last week. You have to remember when you are talking about GAA league attendances that plenty of the fans that are skipping these games are still attending their local club games.

Was just saying to a few of the lads after the match last night that there's a noticeable surge of interest and good feeling towards Limerick FC since I last lived in the city. People seem to be focusing more on the positives than the negatives in the local press, you see Limerick FC jackets and hoodies around town and people do seem keen to see us do well.

Hasn't translated into a sustained boost in attendences yet, but in a couple of years if we have the academy up and running and are pushing for, or have achieved, promotion that will come. It has amazed me that in a year when all and sundry are coming out with tales of woe that Limerick have had an excellent season off the field (not too shabby on it relatively speaking as well)and the foundations have finally been put in place for our long term future

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If there is such a strong local identity for the likes of Bohs and Pats, then why are your crowds so relatively poor ? There's a major disconnnect there.

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Did you read the post you quoted? I said that there was a strong local identity in the case of both clubs, it's just that the localities have witnessed huge population shifts over the past few decades, meaning that people who would still think of themselves as being from Phibsboro'/ Cabra/ NCR and Inchicore/ Kilmainham might find themselves living miles away and that a lot of people who do live in those areas - immigrants/ students/ country people working in Dublin - don't actually identify strongly with where they live. I wasn't disputing the poor crowds, ours and Pat's crowds are poor, given our relative success recently, I was disputing your view that the sense of local pride and identity that prevails in Derry/ Cork etc. and feeds into the football clubs doesn't exist in Dublin- it does, it's just that non- Dubliners living here never seem to develop alternative attachments apart from that to a 'home' to which they may never return, and Dubliners who do feel quite intense local attachments often end up - through the effects of gentrification, local authority vagaries and the pressure over the past few years to get a foot on the property ladder - cut off from the localities they see as theirs.

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Did you read the post you quoted?

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Yes. As you'll see below, I'm not convinced you did - as it contains an inherent contradiction.

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

I said that there was a strong local identity in the case of both clubs, it's just that the localities have witnessed huge population shifts over the past few decades, meaning that people who would still think of themselves as being from Phibsboro'/ Cabra/ NCR and Inchicore/ Kilmainham might find themselves living miles away and that a lot of people who do live in those areas - immigrants/ students/ country people working in Dublin - don't actually identify strongly with where they live.

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You argue that these clubs have a strong local identity. Then in the same breath you say that the people who live near the clubs don't identify with it, and those who do/would/used to identify with them no longer live near the clubs any more. Ergo - you yourself are admiting that the clubs do not have a strong local identity.

Linfield are based in South Belfast. If, over time, the area around their stadium became a nationalist area, rather than a Unionist/Loyalist one, and their traditional fan base moved elsewhere, they would no longer have a strong local identity. There would be obvious reasons for this, and they would still have support - just not locally - but the strong identity/link between the team and its local area would be broken. And their crowds would undoubtedly fall.

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

I wasn't disputing the poor crowds, ours and Pat's crowds are poor, given our relative success recently, I was disputing your view that the sense of local pride and identity that prevails in Derry/ Cork etc. and feeds into the football clubs doesn't exist in Dublin- it does, it's just that non- Dubliners living here never seem to develop alternative attachments apart from that to a 'home' to which they may never return, and Dubliners who do feel quite intense local attachments often end up - through the effects of gentrification, local authority vagaries and the pressure over the past few years to get a foot on the property ladder - cut off from the localities they see as theirs.

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If Bohs and Pats have a strong pool of diaspora who still do/could identify with those clubs, then why do they not turn out for at the very least the big games ? It's not difficult to travel across Dublin/ the country to see a hugely important game for a team you feel an identity with - over 2,000 managed to do it with City and Paris. So why do Dublin clubs still attract poor support for huge events like Cup Finals and Euro ties if they have so much scattered support ? :confused:

It just doesn't add up.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

No Dublin club has the local identity and 'pride' factor to tap into that clubs elsewhere in the country do.

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That was the original quote to which I was responding - nothing about the relative strength or otherwise of the identity or pride factor; you flatly denied it existed. I've asserted that it does/ did exist and provided reasons as to why its now weaker (though still not non-existent). If you look back at my posts, I suggested that for Dublin clubs, local identity was a strong factor in people's allegiance - I made no claims about the numbers so affected.

There is a large Bohs diaspora, but you're right, they tend not to show up often, if ever. I would guess that, while Derry and Cork are small enough for the peer pressure factor to work, Dublin is simply too diffuse and when people lose touch with the area they come from, they also lose touch with the people who might drag them along to games occasionally.

I don't think it's really 'an inherent contradiction' to claim that 'local identity is a strong factor in the creation and maintainance of allegiance to Dublin clubs' and to also point out that the local cohesion and self- identification of people with the areas they live in particular parts of Dublin has been weakened. I get what you mean with the Linfield example, but, if that were to happen - or to happen to a greater extent that it is already - I think, for many Linfield fans, part of being such would be to do with a local identification, even if it was a link now physically broken.

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Originally Posted by Titan

League of Ireland clubs have been doing this since March 07. The problem is that when these kids do drag parents to matches they are invariably in crap stadia with little or no extra entertainment. As a result they dont come back.

.

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eh wouldn't the football be enough?:rolleyes:

No. it was just the football, we'd be OK. A lot of people who aren't obsessed with football might be more willing to go to games if the grounds (and related facilities/amenities) were better.

Tribune had a nice little big at us yesterday with their 'poll' as to why there was a relatively poor attendance at the Pats game. The same paper that had zero of the sports section dedicated to the LOI.

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Originally Posted by elroy

Tribune had a nice little big at us yesterday with their 'poll' as to why there was a relatively poor attendance at the Pats game. The same paper that had zero of the sports section dedicated to the LOI.

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I wonder if the Indo has ever heard the phrase "Blind leading the blind"?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

No. it was just the football, we'd be OK. A lot of people who aren't obsessed with football might be more willing to go to games if the grounds (and related facilities/amenities) were better.

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yeah Dodge i understand that, but whats the point of trying to attract them anyway, let them follow the rugby or ga:)

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

yeah Dodge i understand that, but whats the point of trying to attract them anyway, let them follow the rugby or ga:)

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Money. Plain and Simple.

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Originally Posted by elroy

Tribune had a nice little big at us yesterday with their 'poll' as to why there was a relatively poor attendance at the Pats game.

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What was their findings then?

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Originally Posted by Saint_Charlie

What was their findings then?

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That most of us were on foot.ie, bitching about the media bias. There were some other 'funny' bits in the pie chart, but I don't remember them.

I don't see any evidence for a new respect for the League.
They said the same about Bohs performances in Europe in the nineties, Shels, Derry and Cork (and now Pats) in the last ten years and the perception is always of the "plucky" - God I hate that word - little Irish side nearly getting through.
The only respect we'll get is if one side gets through to the Group stages of the Champions League or UEFA Cup and that will only happen through a combination of fortunate draws and incredible performances.
And if it happens, the rest of the teams will be battling for 2nd place in the league every year.

Does anyone think that it is the cost of getting into a game.
I think the €15 is way over priced, for a family to attend, 1 or 2 parents with a couple of kids it's an expensive night out.
If it is reduced to €10 next season with pay cuts to reflect this then I recon there will be an increase in attendances.
I think the recession can be a good thing for the league.
There won't be as many travelling to England for the weekend a few times a year.
People won't be working as many shifts or overtime which has impacted on attendances too.
The price has to be reduced though.

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Originally Posted by John83

That most of us were on foot.ie, bitching about the media bias. There were some other 'funny' bits in the pie chart, but I don't remember them.

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The only mention of the League of Ireland that I could see in the whole paper was that poll. Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get us.

Can I say that the Linfield example isn’t really a good one. I would say vastly more than 50% of the Linfield support is from other areas outside of South Belfast. We have a big support base in West/North Belfast, Lisburn, Bangor, (North Down), Carrick, Ballymena, Coleraine, Londonderry, Larne, Newtownards etc.

Basically the Linfield support is Northern Ireland wide concern. Unionist South Belfast has shrunk massively over the last load of decades and the Linfield support has expanded to further a field. You just go to a typical Linfield game and you hear all sorts of accents.

Now if you had of used Ards as an example that would have been better. Especially since they have been away from Newtownards for quite some time and there support base has shrunk big time as they are no longer part of the Newtownards society. However if they got a stadium in Ards again, they would no doubt get a large part of there support back.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Can I say that the Linfield example isn’t really a good one. I would say vastly more than 50% of the Linfield support is from other areas outside of South Belfast. We have a big support base in West/North Belfast, Lisburn, Bangor, (North Down), Carrick, Ballymena, Coleraine, Londonderry, Larne, Newtownards etc.

Basically the Linfield support is Northern Ireland wide concern. Unionist South Belfast has shrunk massively over the last load of decades and the Linfield support has expanded to further a field. You just go to a typical Linfield game and you hear all sorts of accents.

Now if you had of used Ards as an example that would have been better. Especially since they have been away from Newtownards for quite some time and there support base has shrunk big time as they are no longer part of the Newtownards society. However if they got a stadium in Ards again, they would no doubt get a large part of there support back.

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why where are ards based now and how far away is their ground from newtownards???

I think they're playing in Ballyclare this season, which is a fair old hike from Newtownards.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

I think they're playing in Ballyclare this season, which is a fair old hike from Newtownards.

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Yeah I think your right, it's a good 20 - 30 miles away. They haven't been playing home games for nearly a decade.

Didn't they share with Bangor for a while?

Yeah, but when Bangor got promoted they had to join the reserve league and asked Ards to leave.