AIL 'On Long Finger'

From the Irish Examiner

All-Ireland League long-fingered by IFA chiefs
24 June 2008

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By Tony Leen, Sports Editor
IRISH FOOTBALL Association chiefs in Belfast have blown a massive hole in attempts to set up an All-Ireland League by revealing they’re not interested in the project at present.
IFA chief executive Howard Wells has told the prime mover in the project, Fintan Drury, that he does not see much point in talks at the moment.

The blow comes in the wake of a meeting between ten clubs — eight from the eircom League and two from the north’s Carnegie League — organised to discuss the project’s feasibility.

Representatives from Bohemians, Cork City, Derry City, Drogheda Utd, St Pat’s, Limerick 37, Shamrock Rovers and Galway United met with Linfield and Glentoran officials last Friday and urged the IFA and the FAI to begin talks on the possibility of an All-Ireland League.

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Click the link for full story.

Bit mad to think of Limerick and Galway in discussions about an AIL at the moment.

The concept reeks of franchise football to me.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

The concept reeks of franchise football to me.

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I hope it doesn’t happen because if it ever goes ahead it will be something like the poxy A-league in Australia.

It is important that the well-run clubs in large catchment areas are included.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Dunne

It is important that the well-run clubs in large catchment areas are included.

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Right.

So, where do Limerick #37 and Galway Unsustainable come into it?

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Right.

So, where do Limerick #37 and Galway Unsustainable come into it?

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Agree completely with Gavin and the rest on our and Galway's inclusion. We're getting our house in order, but probably need another 2-3 years before there could be talk of including us. From the stories coming out of Galway they may need to drop down a division, restructure their playing staff, revert to part time and move forward from there, so probably need the same timeframe as we do.

The only problem for an AIL is that it probably does need teams from the Republic's 3rd and 4th cities involved, if we're not ready who else do you include? It's not like there is a queue of well run clubs in this league ready to step up to the plate

an ail league must have a two up two down relegation/promotion aspect to it.If the organisers of an all ireland league cannot understand this then they are so out of touch with the competitive element that football supporters crave they should withdraw their proposals until they come to understand what competition is about.With promotion /relegation if a team has a disastrous season they can always regain their status.Relegation/promotion battles can be just as exciting as championship battles

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Originally Posted by jebus

The only problem for an AIL is that it probably does need teams from the Republic's 3rd and 4th cities involved, if we're not ready who else do you include? It's not like there is a queue of well run clubs in this league ready to step up to the plate

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I reckon replacing our current bottom 3, UCD, Ramblers and Galway with 3 top clubs from the North would immediately and significantly bump up the quality (and support) of teams in the premier. Rather than Galway condemning themselves and Ramblers losing virtually every game away from home, we'd have Shamrock Rovers, Sligo Rovers, Finn Harps and maybe Cliftonville battling to stay out of 2 relegation/promotion places.

And that's right now, with 0 funding or promotion changes.

After years of disappointment with get-rich-quick schemes, I know I'm going to get rich with this scheme. And quick!

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

After years of disappointment with get-rich-quick schemes, I know I'm going to get rich with this scheme. And quick!

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I prefer to call it my "get rid of UCD quick" scheme. The longer process is making progress though, and we're doing our bit.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

I prefer to call it my "get rid of UCD quick" scheme. The longer process is making progress though, and we're doing our bit.

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Ah yes, get rid of a UCD team who do enough every year to stay in the Premier and replace them with a Limerick side who haven't played in the Premier in how long?

Added to that, their finances can't be any better than UCD's, considering the amount of times they've come close to hitting the wall and, in fact, hitting it a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Rather than Galway condemning themselves and Ramblers losing virtually every game away from home, we'd have Shamrock Rovers, Sligo Rovers, Finn Harps and maybe Cliftonville battling to stay out of 2 relegation/promotion places.

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But Galway are being included in the proposals at this stage. :confused:

It's a bad joke that Galway are being considered.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

It's a bad joke that Galway are being considered.

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yeah but you want to see there dvd

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Originally Posted by passerrby

yeah but you want to see there dvd

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The way they are going at the moment, it's about time they brought out a special edition director's cut.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

an ail league must have a two up two down relegation/promotion aspect to it.If the organisers of an all ireland league cannot understand this then they are so out of touch with the competitive element that football supporters crave they should withdraw their proposals until they come to understand what competition is about.With promotion /relegation if a team has a disastrous season they can always regain their status.Relegation/promotion battles can be just as exciting as championship battles

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Agree 100% that P&R is absolutely essential to maintain footballing integrity and consequent supporter interest.

BUT.

For such a league to work on a full-time basis, it will need v.significant investment by the clubs in stadia, facilities, marketing etc, otherwise supporters in ROI won't see much difference from the present set up, bar a couple of "big" clubs from NI (with associated extra travel costs) and a couple of Provincial NI clubs (where they won't want to travel, after the novelty has worn off!). And realistically, few investors will risk medium-to-long term investment funds on a venture which could get relegated in the short term. Which means the age-old dilemma between spending all your money on players to stay up there, or thinking long term and risking going under because the team is neglected.

Which is why the backers of such a league will want to restrict P&R as much as possible, at least for a season or three.

Which raises another problem, namely, I think I'm right in saying that UEFA will not sanction Leagues which don't have a minimum degree of P&R, from an adequate "feeder" pyramid.

All of which serves to highlight the essential flaw in this whole plan, namely, that with a population of less than 6 million people, the island cannot (imo) realistically support more than 6 or 8 (10 maximum?) genuinely full-time professional football clubs. Especially when you consider the population is still concentrated in three urban areas, the game has historically been so starved of investment, and it will always face competition not just from GAA and Rugby, but also from football in England and Scotland (via SKY and Easyjet etc).

Worse still, these will likely always be the same 6/8/10 clubs, in the same half-dozen cities and towns. Therefore, whilst a well-run AIL* offers the potential to be a significant improvement on the present set-up, nonetheless, anyone who thinks it will be the "answer to a Maiden's prayer" is deluding himself (imo).

* - And that's only if it is well-run; I've not been impressed by what I've heard to date on that score...

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Agree 100% that P&R is absolutely essential to maintain footballing integrity and consequent supporter interest.

BUT.

For such a league to work on a full-time basis, it will need v.significant investment by the clubs in stadia, facilities, marketing etc, otherwise supporters in ROI won't see much difference from the present set up, bar a couple of "big" clubs from NI (with associated extra travel costs) and a couple of Provincial NI clubs (where they won't want to travel, after the novelty has worn off!). And realistically, few investors will risk medium-to-long term investment funds on a venture which could get relegated in the short term. Which means the age-old dilemma between spending all your money on players to stay up there, or thinking long term and risking going under because the team is neglected.

Which is why the backers of such a league will want to restrict P&R as much as possible, at least for a season or three.

Which raises another problem, namely, I think I'm right in saying that UEFA will not sanction Leagues which don't have a minimum degree of P&R, from an adequate "feeder" pyramid.

All of which serves to highlight the essential flaw in this whole plan, namely, that with a population of less than 6 million people, the island cannot (imo) realistically support more than 6 or 8 (10 maximum?) genuinely full-time professional football clubs. Especially when you consider the population is still concentrated in three urban areas, the game has historically been so starved of investment, and it will always face competition not just from GAA and Rugby, but also from football in England and Scotland (via SKY and Easyjet etc).

Worse still, these will likely always be the same 6/8/10 clubs, in the same half-dozen cities and towns. Therefore, whilst a well-run AIL* offers the potential to be a significant improvement on the present set-up, nonetheless, anyone who thinks it will be the "answer to a Maiden's prayer" is deluding himself (imo).

* - And that's only if it is well-run; I've not been impressed by what I've heard to date on that score...

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realistically for an ail to happen one of the tv companies[sky/setanta] probably setanta are going to have to take a punt[investment]for two or three years probably with limited promotion/relegation.I think they would be willing to take that chance but are probably worried if the gardai could cope with policing these game.I think that the psni are probably better equipped to manage the games.Regardless of an ail the gardai need to learn how english/scottish police forces have learned to deal with potentially troublesome matches

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

I reckon replacing our current bottom 3, UCD, Ramblers and Galway with 3 top clubs from the North would immediately and significantly bump up the quality (and support) of teams in the premier.

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Why would the support improve? Why would hundreds more people pay to see Cliftonville struggle to stay up that currently pay to watch Cobh struggle to stay up?

Why would hundreds more people pay to watch Cork play Sligo in the AIL than currently pay to watch them in the eL?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Agree 100% that P&R is absolutely essential to maintain footballing integrity and consequent supporter interest.

BUT.

For such a league to work on a full-time basis, it will need v.significant investment by the clubs in stadia, facilities, marketing etc, otherwise supporters in ROI won't see much difference from the present set up, bar a couple of "big" clubs from NI (with associated extra travel costs) and a couple of Provincial NI clubs (where they won't want to travel, after the novelty has worn off!). And realistically, few investors will risk medium-to-long term investment funds on a venture which could get relegated in the short term. Which means the age-old dilemma between spending all your money on players to stay up there, or thinking long term and risking going under because the team is neglected.

Which is why the backers of such a league will want to restrict P&R as much as possible, at least for a season or three.

Which raises another problem, namely, I think I'm right in saying that UEFA will not sanction Leagues which don't have a minimum degree of P&R, from an adequate "feeder" pyramid.

All of which serves to highlight the essential flaw in this whole plan, namely, that with a population of less than 6 million people, the island cannot (imo) realistically support more than 6 or 8 (10 maximum?) genuinely full-time professional football clubs. Especially when you consider the population is still concentrated in three urban areas, the game has historically been so starved of investment, and it will always face competition not just from GAA and Rugby, but also from football in England and Scotland (via SKY and Easyjet etc).

Worse still, these will likely always be the same 6/8/10 clubs, in the same half-dozen cities and towns. Therefore, whilst a well-run AIL* offers the potential to be a significant improvement on the present set-up, nonetheless, anyone who thinks it will be the "answer to a Maiden's prayer" is deluding himself (imo).

* - And that's only if it is well-run; I've not been impressed by what I've heard to date on that score...

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I'm not awareof anyone who thinks an AIL is the magic wand for Irish football.
Most just think itwill better than what we've currently got.

You've treated us to a lovely treatise on why you think an all-island league is funamentally flawed (hevaily based on assumption your arguement is though). Regadless - please explain the alternative as you see it ? Please exlain what non-AIL future you see for Irish football, and particularly the IL ? If you question the viability of 6-8 full-time clubs on an all-island basis, please explain what future you see for an IL with only one or two full-time clubs ?

I am fairly certain that an ail will happen but it has to happen on the IFA's and the FAI's term's. Fintan Drury and Jim Roddy need to be told to step back and that when it does happen it will be done it such away that protects the interests of the game as a whole. The scheme has been well described as a "get rich quick scheme" that you'd expect to hear about on Joe Duffy's Liveline.

How in the name of goodness could Galway or Limerick hope to compete in such a league even with 4 to 5 years to prepare? After a couple of season's finishing bottom of the league both clubs will end up with more players on the park than fans on the terraces. Somebodys not thinking straight

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Why would the support improve? Why would hundreds more people pay to see Cliftonville struggle to stay up that currently pay to watch Cobh struggle to stay up?

Why would hundreds more people pay to watch Cork play Sligo in the AIL than currently pay to watch them in the eL?

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This would be the series of questions I'd pose to pro-AILers as well.